Hello, questions

[DixiesFinest]

if a baptist baptism that are done in the name of the trinity(and most other protestant denominations that believe this) is/are invalid, why does the church recognize these baptisms?

or is this just a personal opinion?

Pretty sure that is personal opinion.

 

[maize]

thats what i thought.

 

[Rocky]

But we have no evidence that God has done so. Therefore, I couldn’t justify in my own conscience praying TO Mary in this way.

The Catholic Church would have no trouble with you not praying to Mary in this way. There is no Catholic law that says you have to pray to Mary in any way. But as Catholics we recognize Mary as our adopted Mother because Jesus gave her to us and we to her when He hung on the cross. So we like to talk to our Mother. But again, there is nothing in Church law that says you have to do so too.

 

[Rocky]

I find it alarming that you feel I am missing out on something. Not alarming because I feel like I** am **missing something, but alarming because you feel you can be “closer” to God because you go through Mary. Not possible. You’re either in a relationship with God, or you’re not. There is no “super duper” relationship.

Even your comment here that Protestants reject her aid assumes that she gives aid apart from God, or she gives aid that God is not otherwise capable of giving. Now that is alarming.

You are assuming too much here. All grace and aid comes from God, and His using Mary as a conduit of grace and aid takes nothing away from His love, mercy and generosity. Just as Christ having come in the human person of Jesus takes nothing away from His eternal Godhead.

 

[ckempston]

if a baptist baptism that are done in the name of the trinity(and most other protestant denominations that believe this) is/are invalid, why does the church recognize these baptisms?

or is this just a personal opinion?

My understanding is that one has to believe that Baptism is salvic in order for it to be valid, not just that the correct form be used. That’s what the CCC seems to say. In other words, if you were baptized using the trinitarian formula, but were not baptized with the understanding that your sins were being forgiven, then it is not valid.

 

[ckempston]

You are assuming too much here. All grace and aid comes from God, and His using Mary as a conduit of grace and aid takes nothing away from His love, mercy and generosity. Just as Christ having come in the human person of Jesus takes nothing away from His eternal Godhead.

This is more question begging. I contend that God does not use Mary as a conduit currently for anything. He used her once. She was blessed. Period. Nothing more said of her in Scripture or for 200 years after Christ’s death that would indicate we are to seek her approval, intercession, or guidance in any way.

 

[JRKH]

This is more question begging. I contend that God does not use Mary as a conduit currently for anything. He used her once. She was blessed. Period. Nothing more said of her in Scripture or for 200 years after Christ’s death that would indicate we are to seek her approval, intercession, or guidance in any way.

I guess I’d have to ask how you feel about the communion of saints and Any kind of Saintly intercessory prayer.

My solution to this dilema was simple.
First I subjected my opinion re: Mary’s role to the Church’s authority and the judgement of God. The Church has the authority and responsibility to teach the Truth and I accept that.
that does not mean I will understand all of it.
Second, since I try to hold fast to Christ’s teaching to pray to “Our Father”, I do so. In this way I am praying directly to My Heavenly Father as Jesus taught us to.

Peace
James

 

[grandfather]

My understanding is that one has to believe that Baptism is salvic in order for it to be valid, not just that the correct form be used. That’s what the CCC seems to say. In other words, if you were baptized using the trinitarian formula, but were not baptized with the understanding that your sins were being forgiven, then it is not valid.

For any sacrament to be valid there has to be proper form, matter and intent. The form is the Trinitarian prayer given by Jesus. So we baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The matter is water. The intent is to do what the Church does in baptism. Sometimes converts are conditionally baptized. The bishop decides if a person’s baptism was valid or not. If someone was babtized by some itinerant preacher or a denomination that rejects the traditional or orthodox understnading of baptism, there might be a problem with intent. It is on a case by case basis and difficult to say that a Baptist’s baptism is valid or not, because there are so many varieties or groups that call themselves Baptists. Near where I live there is a little town with six Baptist churches all unique in some way and I don’t know that they all have affiliation with some larger group and share any common doctrine on baptism. One is a guy who calls himself a minister and comes from the midwest from a fringe group. How could anyone make a blanket statement on all baptisms of all who say they are Baptists?

 

[Rolltide]

Ckempston,
Let me ask a question. What is your current stance on the Real Presence in Communion?

 

[Lapell]

A fine line, if you ask me.

Maybe because he wanted her to be taken care of? There were other people at the cross. For your interpretation to stick, Jesus would have turned to all of them and said, “All of my disciples who are here, behold your mother.” He didn’t.

Well, John was the only Apostle present at the cross.
I am asking you again: Why did John put that in his account of the Gospel rather that in a personal diary, for instance?

 

[Lapell]

Are you acquainted with the notion that the members of the Church are the mystical body of Christ of which Jesus is the head?
If we are in Christ, we are part of the one and only intercessor between God and mankind. And so, as long as we are in Him, in Him we can intercede to God on behalf of our brothers and sisters in this world. Therefore can the saints truly, by the power of God Himself, intercede for us… including our Blessed Mother in heaven, Jesus’ own mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary!
Seen in this light, don’t you think the communion of the Saints is a great thing?
Do you believe in the Communion of the Saints?

 

[Ilroy]

Maybe because he wanted her to be taken care of? There were other people at the cross. For your interpretation to stick, Jesus would have turned to all of them and said, “All of my disciples who are here, behold your mother.” He didn’t.

Actually, there is nothing in the Gospel where He named the Apostle John. Here is what He did say…

26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son.
27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

I don’t know about you, but I consider myself His disciple, and I believe I am a disciple whom He loves. Seems to me like He gave me the best mother I could hope for, not taking away anything from my earthly mother.

 

[Lapell]

ckempton, the belief in the communion of the Saints has existed from the very beginning of the Church, you know that?

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

But we have no evidence that God has done so. Therefore, I couldn’t justify in my own conscience praying TO Mary in this way.

(emphasis mine)

We have some evidence (actually a LOT of evidence she has and does)

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

My understanding is that one has to believe that Baptism is salvic in order for it to be valid, not just that the correct form be used. That’s what the CCC seems to say. In other words, if you were baptized using the trinitarian formula, but were not baptized with the understanding that your sins were being forgiven, then it is not valid.

Nope, the efficiency of baptism of those below the age of reason (infants) is considered valid if done in the Trinitarian formula and intent–even if, in extreme emergency, performed by a non-believer.

 

[grandfather]

Nope, the efficiency of baptism of those below the age of reason (infants) is considered valid if done in the Trinitarian formula and intent–even if, in extreme emergency, performed by a non-believer.

It is the intent that is unknown. The intention has to be to do what the Church does, meaning there has to be some common theology of what baptism is.

 

[RC_Matt]

DixiesFinest:
LOL, In Hoc, Bro!

 

[RC_Matt]

Yeah, just an ordinary woman, who did nothing out of the ordinary, who carried the SON OF GOD, THE WORD INCARNATE in her womb, which as we know is an ordinary occurrence.

Really? Just ordinary? Please.

In Hoc, Bro!

 

[jimmy]

Pretty sure that is personal opinion.

A baptism is valid if it is done in the name of the Trinity with the intent of the Church. Check the council of Florence.

 

[Zooey]

Actually, there is nothing in the Gospel where He named the Apostle John. Here is what He did say…

26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son.
27 After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.

I don’t know about you, but I consider myself His disciple, and I believe I am a disciple whom He loves. Seems to me like He gave me the best mother I could hope for, not taking away anything from my earthly mother.