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DixiesFinest
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Exactly, which is why my Baptism in a protestant church was accepted when I came back home.
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DixiesFinest
Guest
In Hoc Brother! What chapter do you hail from?
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RC_Matt
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Hey Bro:
Undergrad was Stanford, Alpha Omega – which seems somehow appropriate on this forum now that I think of it…
IN HOC,
Matt
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ChristianKnight
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Cause I bow to no man, Jesus is the only “man” I would bow to, the pope is nothing but a man, Jesus is the Son of God, their is a big difference.
If you acknowledge that you serve god, then I believe he knows you bow to him, mentally, and if you bow mentally, physically doesn’t matter, I’d say.
really? I do not see how the whole bible does buddy lol, name the books please, I read out of KJV, and I got 3 IV, and NIV.
but I would be caught dead before kissing a man’s ring. And why is that?
btw: If I go to a catholic church, what would be the major differences between it and a protestant one, other than the bowing?
btw: How does drinking wine and bread mean jesus’s body? Thats crazy, I mean Jesus is everywhere, why should you eat his blood and body, to get him to come? or am I reading this wrong lol
M
maize
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troll.
Z
Zooey
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OK, now you have just
called the Bible “crazy”, and said that:crying: Our Lord was a liar!!!:dts:Unless, of course, you have one of these
new-fangled Bibles with 
removeable parts, I suggest that you need to go read the 6th chapter of John’s Gospel.:tsktsk:Shame on you, for insulting the Saviour of the world, by calling Him “crazy”!!!
H
heisenburg
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Impressed
It takes a lot for some people to get that at times… it seems on here that most people that accuse us of worshiping say a statue because we bow can’t seem to understand that it is actually directed at god…Kudos to you my friend
In Christ
A
Alina
Guest
Coming back to the question of Mary, I think that Jesus showed us that she was able to help us a lot also during the wedding in Cana (John, chapter 2)
" When the wine ran out, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no wine left.” Jesus replied, “Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come.” His mother told the servants, “Whatever he tells you, do it.”"
IMO, we see in this passage that although Mary does not have special powers independent of God (it is Jesus who turned the water to wine), it’s thanks to her intercession that Jesus helped the servants (because at the beginning, Jesus did not mean to turn the water to wine : on the contrary, He says : “My time has not yet come”).
" When the wine ran out, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no wine left.” Jesus replied, “Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come.” His mother told the servants, “Whatever he tells you, do it.”"
IMO, we see in this passage that although Mary does not have special powers independent of God (it is Jesus who turned the water to wine), it’s thanks to her intercession that Jesus helped the servants (because at the beginning, Jesus did not mean to turn the water to wine : on the contrary, He says : “My time has not yet come”).
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DixiesFinest
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DixiesFinest
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Amen to that.
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ckempston
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grandfather
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ckempston
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Rolltide
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You are aware that the Protestant version of the Bible drops seven books from the Bible that Catholics and Orthodox consider to be inspired? We refer to them as the Deuterocanonicals, but you probably know them as the Apocrypha.
The most dramatic difference, in my opinion, is that Protestants put their focus on the sermon while Catholics and Orthodox put their focus on receiving the Real Presence of Jesus in Communion. Without Communion, all you really have is a prayer service. I can go into more specific differences as I find time today to write them…
I brought this up because not only is this one of the KEY points of Catholic doctrine, but it is the one that is most easily provable through using the Bible and early sources. I just recently got into a lengthy discussion about this, and wrote a post where I brought in a huge number of quotes from the Early Church Fathers to see what they believed about this idea. (I also work as a professional historian, if that helps my credibility any.) I invite you to go to the following link and read posts 8-16 (I know it’s long but the quotes are important). It should help your understanding significantly.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3854198#post3854198
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Alina
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To ckempston :
“There’s no support for prayers to Mary in this passage. That’s a giant leap of logic.”
Why ?
All I see is that Jesus apparently did not want to turn water to wine, but that he finally agreed to do that when Mary insisted.
So imho He is telling us in this passage that He has so great a respect for Mary that He does everything she would like Him to do.
So if we ask Mary for help in our prayers, she will then turn to Him, and He will listen to her and answer all her prayers (in this passage, He did not even want to perform this miracle in the first place, so see what influence she may have on Him).
God bless you,
Alina
“There’s no support for prayers to Mary in this passage. That’s a giant leap of logic.”
Why ?
All I see is that Jesus apparently did not want to turn water to wine, but that he finally agreed to do that when Mary insisted.
So imho He is telling us in this passage that He has so great a respect for Mary that He does everything she would like Him to do.
So if we ask Mary for help in our prayers, she will then turn to Him, and He will listen to her and answer all her prayers (in this passage, He did not even want to perform this miracle in the first place, so see what influence she may have on Him).
God bless you,
Alina
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ckempston
Guest
Jesus doesn’t do everything Mary wants him to in the Bible.
Matthew 12:50 “For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”
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grandfather
Guest
So that proves what, that Mary does not do God’s will, or Jesus does not answer her prayers. He made His own mother. God made the woman who would give Him birth, nurse Him, love Him more than any other creature and stand by Him while He was tortured to death for our sins.
She consented to the Incarnation. “Let it be done to me according to your will”. God asked her to be the Mother of your Salvation and you give her no honor. God honors her and makes her the most unique creature in all of His creation, His mother. And you refuse to honor her. In your refusal you dishonor her.
Imagine if someone came into your home, or imagine you were invited into your boss’s home and introduced to his family, his wife, mother, children. Imagine if you refused to acknowledge them. You do not understand how we are all linked.
Jesus is flesh of our flesh and blood of our blood. He is of us, as Eve was of Adam. There is one created being in all creation who participated in His becoming of us, flesh of our flesh and blood of our blood through her alone. He received His humanity through this creature and no other. He keeps the law perfectly, honor your father and mother.
Protestants act like Mary is a nobody to Jesus. She was used and cast aside. Someone even posted that in this thread. Is that what you do with your own mother?
The King of Israel, King of the Jews prefigures Jesus. Israel had a queen mother from the time of Solomon, She sat on a throne next to his and was the most powerful person in the Kingdom next to the King. Mary is queen of heaven, Jesus queen and mother, and queen and mother of His Church and you refuse her honor or to acknowledge her or what the God Bearer did for you in bringing you salvation, Jesus Christ.
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Alina
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To ckempston :
I do not see how the passage you quote contradicts what I said. Could you please add some explanations ?
To add to this, I still do not understand in what way what I said was a ‘giant leap of logic’; I am not a native English speaker, so perhaps have I expressed myself in a wrong way. Could you please explain to me what, according to you, the passage I referred to previously (the wedding in Cana) means ?
God bless you,
Alina
I do not see how the passage you quote contradicts what I said. Could you please add some explanations ?
To add to this, I still do not understand in what way what I said was a ‘giant leap of logic’; I am not a native English speaker, so perhaps have I expressed myself in a wrong way. Could you please explain to me what, according to you, the passage I referred to previously (the wedding in Cana) means ?
God bless you,
Alina
J
JRKH
Guest
First you say that you would bow to no man, then say you would bow to the man Jesus. So, in fact you would bow to a man.
Grandfather gave some good answers to this re giving respect and the fact that Jesus humbled himself to wash the feet of the apostles even over their objections.
As to the distinction of Jesus being the “Son of God”. All who believe in and follow the Teachings of the Christ are the Children of God. That includes you and me, so long as we follow Christ and Obey His commandments. So when you say that the Pope is “nothing but a man” you are denying that He is a Child of God.
Of course, as has already been said, if you feel awkward bowing to the Pope, then simply don’t. Simply treat him with whatever respect you feel is appropriate to a man who is the head of a city-state and visible leader shepard of over 1 billion Christian souls.
If it doesn’t matter one way (not bowing) then it doesn’t matter the other way (bowing). That 's the way it is when it doesn’t matter.
If bowing doesn’t matter, then why would kissing a ring matter?
The real presence of Christ on the Altar. The true and consistant readings and teachings from the Bible. If you are serious I would suggest that you go to a mass. The Catholic Church celebrates mass avery day and more often on Sundays. If you go during the week, you will usually see a “basic” mass, that is no music or chanting and one less reading. If you go on Sunday there will, of course be Singing etc.
Sit quietly in the back of the Church and simply observe. Then you can bring any questions back here and we will try to answer them.
You are definitely reading this wrong. (NO lol)
Honestly if you have to ask this question you simply don’t know The Bible and you certainly don’t take Him at His Word.
The Eucharist has been celebrated by the Church ever since Pentacost. This fact is recorded in the Bible, by the Early Church Fathers and is central in Catholic Liturgy. The rejection of the real presence is a recent development and is a device of Satan used to snare the unlearned and unwary. Unfortunately he has been all too successful.
Peace
James
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ckempston
Guest
I don’t refuse to do what the Bible says I will do of her, which is to call her blessed. “For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed.” That’s where I stop. Jesus says in Matthew 4:10 to bow to none but God and serve none but God. That would include Mary from any kind of service (latria) or bowing (proskuneo).
The idea that I don’t acknowledge Mary is ridiculous. I have come to her defense on another thread dealing with her and John the Baptist. Go read it. I have no problem honoring Mary, as far as honoring a created being is appropriate.
No, it wasn’t through her alone. It was through every single person in Jesus’ lineage.
I certainly don’t think she’s nobody, but I also don’t think she is to be “venerated” (i.e. just another word for worshiped).
You are making false accusations. Just because I won’t worship Mary like you do, you conclude that I give her no honor at all? I fully expect Catholics who have seen me defend Mary in other discussions and have never seen me deny her the proper, Biblical honor that is due to her to come to my defense on this.
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