Help Discussing Catholic faith with a Southern Baptist

  • Thread starter Thread starter CostantinoA80
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
St. Paul says in one of his letters “Remember the Scripture and Tradition we have taught.”
What does that mean to non-Catholics?
Scripture at the time of St. Paul would have been the Old Testament- Tadition is what Paul taught.
The Bible was formulated by a conference of Catholic Bishops- the protestants took out the books that they didn’t like.
When the non-Catholics talk about sola scriptura where did the scripture come from- for the New Testament it was the Catholic Churc
 
Tietjen said:
The Orthodox Church came into being in 1054
The Lutheran Church came into being in 1517
The Anabaptist Church came into being in 1521
Click to expand...
Well, no. The Lutheran Church didn’t came into being the moment Luther nailed his theses to the church door in Wittenberg, it took some years. I think 1521 may be more correct.

Besides, I don’t think there ever was an “Anabaptist Church”, let alone that it was founded in 1521.

Also, who created the Orthodox Church in 1054? Did it appear out of thin air?

A tip for the OP, don’t argue with your mom when you know she never can nor will understand your arguments. Don’t forget the decalogue, respect your parents.
 
CostantinoA80 said:
Thank you everyone for the amazing replies and links. I am reading them and going to build my knowledge. I am attending RCIA classes and I am reading the book titles Basics of the Catholic Faith and This is our Faith. I am going to try and comply a response back to her email from all the responses I got here and see what happens. I will post my reply to her as well as her reply back… I am really trying to get to the bottom of this. I am exploring faith as I have been a Atheist for so many years. I want to make the right choice and it seems that God has me headed to the Catholic church and not to any other church.
Click to expand...
I admire you for both your sincere openness and your courage to be stand up for truth, even when somebody as close as your mother is against you. Let this be a great learning experience for you and renew your zeal for truth.

God is truth.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Well, no. The Lutheran Church didn’t came into being the moment Luther nailed his theses to the church door in Wittenberg, it took some years. I think 1521 may be more correct.
Click to expand...
I think that you’re missing the point. But if you want to be split hairs, the term Lutheran was first coined in July 1519 by Johann Eck during the Leipzig debate. So, it was at least 2 years prior to 1521.
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Besides, I don’t think there ever was an “Anabaptist Church”, let alone that it was founded in 1521.
Click to expand...
Respectfully, it really doesn’t matter if you believe that Anabaptist churches exist(ed).
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Also, who created the Orthodox Church in 1054? Did it appear out of thin air?
Click to expand...
Actually, I’d say that schismatic Catholic Bishops created the Orthodox Church during the “great schism.” Thin air? No. Bad theology? Yes. The filioque clause, the Othrodox view of the Papacy, etc.
 
rdscheirer said:
When the non-Catholics talk about sola scriptura where did the scripture come from- for the New Testament it was the Catholic Churc
Click to expand...
Just curious, when did the Roman Catholic Church write the New Testement?
 
Calgar said:
Just curious, when did the Roman Catholic Church write the New Testement?
Click to expand...
The canon was decided upon in 393AD and again in 397AD during the councils of Hippo and Carthage respectfully. At that time, the individual books of the New Testament had already been written by various authors whom I’m sure as a Christian you are familiar with. The matter was laid to rest during these councils and left undebated until the reformation when Luther challenged the canon (1529AD). Luther’s primary goal was to have the Greek canon of the Old Testament (aka - LXX or Septuagint) replaced with the Palestinian (or Hebrew) canon. This would cause the removal of 7 books from the Old Testament. Additionally, there is some evidence that Luther also wished to have the book of James removed from the New Testiment however he met with restistance for such a move from within his movement and gave in to the opposition.
 
Tietjen said:
The canon was decided upon in 393AD and again in 397AD during the councils of Hippo and Carthage respectfully. At that time, the individual books of the New Testament had already been written by various authors whom I’m sure as a Christian you are familiar with. The matter was laid to rest during these councils and left undebated until the reformation when Luther challenged the canon (1529AD). Luther’s primary goal was to have the Greek canon of the Old Testament (aka - LXX or Septuagint) replaced with the Palestinian (or Hebrew) canon. This would cause the removal of 7 books from the Old Testament. Additionally, there is some evidence that Luther also wished to have the book of James removed from the New Testiment however he met with restistance for such a move from within his movement and gave in to the opposition.
Click to expand...
I am aware of the history. I was addressing the poster who seemed to believe that the Roman Catholics wrote the New Testement. When in fact, the letters/books already existed and were in use. The assembly at Hippo supposedly collected them into one volume that has become the Holy Bible. But the Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, and Codex Alexandrinus make me question whether Hippo was actually where the Holy Bible was put together.
 
CostantinoA80 said:
My mother was raised Catholic but says that she claims the Southern Baptist Faith is the right religion. She claims that Catholics teach false teachings and they are all going to hell. I have tried to discuss this with her but she is so emotional and I am so uneducated about religion, I need some help. Please help… 🙂 What verses can I point to that shows the Catholic faith is correct and the baptist faith is false. Please let me know.
Click to expand...
Ask your mother where she thinks the Bible came from. When she says from God, explain to her that the Bible did not fall out of the sky and that Jesus did not hand out Bibles. Tell her that Jesus established a Church in order to teach the truth throughout the ages, and that it was through the Church that we got the Bible in the first place. The Church was teaching with authority before the New Testament was even written down.

Finally, ask her to explain how it is that we know what books are contained in the Bible, since nowhere in the Bible does it tell us what books make up the Bible; for this she must trust the Sacred Traditions of the Catholic Church. Finally, explain to her that Scripture speaks about “overseers” (bishops) being appointed by the apostles in order to oversee the local flocks which were forming as the Church grew in number. (Phil. 1:1) (Acts 20:28) Ask her who her local bishop (overseer) is and if he is a self-appointed overseer or has authority from the Church through whom God gave us the Bible
 
Gabriel_Serafin said:
ask her to explain how it is that we know what books are contained in the Bible, since nowhere in the Bible does it tell us what books make up the Bible; for this she must trust the Sacred Traditions of the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
If the Roman Catholic Church existed so long ago why do the Greek Orthodox have New Testements that are older than the "councils of Hippo and Cathage?
Gabriel_Serafin said:
Finally, explain to her that Scripture speaks about “overseers”
Click to expand...
Sure. We call them “ministers”.
 
Calgar said:
If the Roman Catholic Church existed so long ago why do the Greek Orthodox have New Testements that are older than the "councils of Hippo and Cathage?

".
Click to expand...
That is because the Bible was intended, initially, to be a set of books, a standard set for books to be read during the Mass, not a source of doctrine and strife of interpretations.

For what the Church taught, we had always the bishops and presbyters…that is why the Church is the pillar and ground of truth…not private interpretation.

The GCO canon came from their tradition of what was read during their liturgical services.
 
To the poster asking why the Catholics wrote the Bible its quite simple - until the 1500’s the only church was the Catholic Church- so from the resurrection to the 1500’s there was only one church, everyone was Catholic until the divisions brought by Luther, Calvin and Zwigli.
 
They broke off in the yr I think it was 1054. So the Catholic church stood undivided for 1000 yrs until there was a Person of such Personality who could sway the believers from the True Church. It has always been a “Person” with chuztpah who has changed the teaching- Luther, Calvin, Zwigli, Smith (Mormon) and Muhammed.

So when you look at the “apostasy” that the Mormons and the Baptists talk about it first occured in 1054(?) and then in the early 1500’s and then in the 1800’s.
 
Calgar said:
If the Roman Catholic Church existed so long ago why do the Greek Orthodox have New Testements that are older than the "councils of Hippo and Cathage?
Click to expand...
I would suggest you study Church history. The Eastern Schism didn’t occur until the year 1050, whereas the councils of Hippo and Carthage date back to the 4th and 5th centuries. Realize that both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches have valid Holy Orders and apostolic succession through the episcopacy, and both celebrate the same sacraments and teach almost exactly the same theology and the same faith in Jesus Christ. It wasn’t until the year 1054 that the Eastern and Western Church split over a theological disagreement that has to do with the Latin word filioque* (“and the Son”)* which was added to the Nicene Creed by Catholic bishops around the end of the sixth century, which states that that the Holy Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son.” Eastern Orthodox have traditionally disagreed with this, either claiming the doctrine is inaccurate or that the pope had no authority to insert this word into the creed—although it was later affirmed by an ecumenical council.

A definite canon of Sacred Scripture was not settled in the first years of the Church, but the final listing was determined by Catholic bishops. The canons of the Old and New Testaments as defined by Pope Damasus and the Councils of Hippo and Carthage were later ratified by the later Ecumenical councils of II Nicaea and Florence. The Council of Trent declared an infallible listing of each individual book in response to Martin Luther’s self-appointed decision to remove the 7 Deuterocanonical books from the Bible.
Sure. We call them “ministers”.
Click to expand...
A man can appoint himself a himself a policeman but that doesn’t mean he has the authority of the law behind him. Likewise. the overseers (bishops) described in the New Testament were appointed with apostolic authority; Catholic bishops today have authority from an unbroken apostolic succession. Bishops (episcopoi) have the care of multiple congregations and appoint, ordain, and discipline priests and deacons. Examples of first-century bishops include Timothy and Titus (1 Tim. 5:19–22; 2 Tim. 4:5; Titus 1:5). Self-appointed freelance Bible interpreters have no more authority to appoint themselves official overseers as they do to bind or loose things in heaven and on earth, as Christ gave to His Church in Matt:16:18-19 *And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
*
 
40.png
Calgar:
Furthermore, the Southern Baptist denomination has its root in the 16th century founded upon the doctrines fathered by John Smyth.
.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2Twzw9Dtaas/S5QdkPectpI/AAAAAAAAJB0/4mWD3Dz7zPQ/s1600/smyth-john.jpg
 
Gabriel_Serafin said:
Furthermore, the Southern Baptist denomination has its root in the 16th century founded upon the doctrines fathered by John Smyth.
Click to expand...
You honestly think that the Southern Baptists are claiming to be the One and only Church created by Christ? :rolleyes:
 
Calgar said:
Where can I find this history?
Also, the EO claim succession. How would anyone know who’s right?
Click to expand...
Any good history book should do. But the Eastern Orthodox have valid apostolic succession, thus their Holy Orders and seven sacraments are valid. Now you have to ask yourself; how is it that the Protestant have such a different set of beliefs than the Catholic Church, while the Catholics and Greek Orthodox are nearly identical?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top