Help Discussing Catholic faith with a Southern Baptist

[Calgar]

Just remember that Southern Baptist will greet all the brethren by name unless they meet in the liquor store.

We’d have to fight our way past all the Roman Catholics first.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Still waiting to see your source on this. (insert foot tapping)

I too have heard the number is over 30,000 and counting. But one quick search on an online Yellow Page book for a large city of Chicago shows at least 280 pages worth of listings. Here is the link Below are just some from the fist page— I particularly found the “Instant Deliverance Church of God In Christ” denomination rather amusing:

Stratford Christian Center Church
Elmwood Chapel
Mt Gilead Bible Church
Christian Community Development
Chinese Christian Union Church
Doremus Congregational Church
Fellowship Fleet
St Roman Church
Beersheba Bible Church Mnstrs
The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews
First Baptist Congregational Church
Jackon Boulevard Christian Church
New Life Christian Center
New Mt Zion Church
Greater Christian Fellowship
Cathedreal of Love Christian Church
Mt Ridge Missionary Baptist Church
God’s House for All Nations
Instant Deliverance Church of God In Christ
The Westlawn Gospel Chapel
Refuge & Strength Full Gospel Assembly
Salvation Army
New Life Christian Church
Greater Zion Hill Missionary Baptist Church
True Gospel Ministry
Disciples of Christ Full Gospel Church
Right-Way Holiness Church

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Self-appointed freelance Bible-only interpreter/ teacher Harold Camping
4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zreo1szM-3s/TdhqDgSrU5I/AAAAAAAAAT4/R64Q8bDVBLI/s1600/Harold%2BCamping%2BII.jpg

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

We’d have to fight our way past all the Roman Catholics first.

Almost universally, Southern Baptists in the United States almost universally have strict rules requiring abstinence from alcohol. Catholics have no prohibition against drinking alcohol, as long as it’s done with moderation. In fact the New Testament recommends drinking wine… *"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. " 1 Tim. 5:23 *What is strictly forbidden as sinful is drunkenness, as one loses control of reason.

 

[Calgar]

Almost universally, Southern Baptists in the United States almost universally have strict rules requiring abstinence from alcohol. Catholics have no prohibition against drinking alcohol, as long as it’s done with moderation. In fact the New Testament recommends drinking wine… *"Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. " 1 Tim. 5:23 *What is strictly forbidden as sinful is drunkenness, as one loses control of reason.

Yes, and?

 

[Calgar]

I too have heard the number is over 30,000 and counting. But one quick search on an online Yellow Page book for a large city of Chicago shows at least 280 pages worth of listings. Here is the link Below are just some from the fist page— I particularly found the “Instant Deliverance Church of God In Christ” denomination rather amusing:

Stratford Christian Center Church
Elmwood Chapel
Mt Gilead Bible Church
Christian Community Development
Chinese Christian Union Church
Doremus Congregational Church
Fellowship Fleet
St Roman Church
Beersheba Bible Church Mnstrs
The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews
First Baptist Congregational Church
Jackon Boulevard Christian Church
New Life Christian Center
New Mt Zion Church
Greater Christian Fellowship
Cathedreal of Love Christian Church
Mt Ridge Missionary Baptist Church
God’s House for All Nations
Instant Deliverance Church of God In Christ
The Westlawn Gospel Chapel
Refuge & Strength Full Gospel Assembly
Salvation Army
New Life Christian Church
Greater Zion Hill Missionary Baptist Church
True Gospel Ministry
Disciples of Christ Full Gospel Church
Right-Way Holiness Church

Interesting to be sure, but are those different denominations or just different buildings and names?

I want to see the poster tell me his source for “33,000 protestant denominations and counting”.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Yes, and?

…Simply that it’s not hypocritical for Catholics to be found in a liquor store

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Interesting to be sure, but are those different denominations or just different buildings and names?
I want to see the poster tell me his source for “33,000 protestant denominations and counting”.

Being that “Bible Only” denominations simply require an individual with a Bible who decides to open up shop and start “pastoring” a flock, I would think there are probably more than 30,000 judging by the list found in that Chicago Yellow Pages, most of which seem to be local to Chicago. Multiply that by thousands of cities across the U.S. and you have a jumble of self-appointed pastors leading their flocks, many of which are ardently anti-Catholic (.ie. the pope is the Antichrist, the Catholic Church is"the whore of Babylon", etc.) In reality, Satan the master of lies and half truths, uses the naive to spread his lies to cause division and chaos. It’s a war, and Satan has plenty of misnisters of misinformation, knowingly—and unknowingly—spreading lies about Christ and His Church.

 

[Calgar]

…Simply that it’s not hypocritical for Catholics to be found in a liquor store

I’m sorry, I thought we were joking around. Are you actually just calling Southern Baptists Hypocrits?

 

[Calgar]

Being that “Bible Only” denominations simply require an individual with a Bible who decides to open up shop and start “pastoring” a flock, I would think there are probably more than 30,000 judging by the list found in that Chicago Yellow Pages, most of which seem to be local to Chicago. Multiply that by thousands of cities across the U.S. and you have a jumble of self-appointed pastors leading their flocks, many of which are ardently anti-Catholic (.ie. the pope is the Antichrist, the Catholic Church is"the whore of Babylon", etc.) In reality, Satan the master of lies and half truths, uses the naive to spread his lies to cause division and chaos. It’s a war, and Satan has plenty of misnisters of misinformation, knowingly—and unknowingly—spreading lies about Christ and His Church.

You honestly believe that every individual protestant is an entire denomination all by themselves?

I’ll just wait for the poster who made the 33,000 claim to post his source.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I’m sorry, I thought we were joking around. Are you actually just calling Southern Baptists Hypocrits?

Only the ones who preach against drinking but then sneak into the liquor store. But it wasn’t clear whether you realized that Catholics are not forbidden from drinking alcohol, as most Southern Baptists apparently are.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

You honestly believe that every individual protestant is an entire denomination all by themselves? .

No, most follow other self-appointed freelance Bible interpreters. Lutherans, follow the teachings of Luther, and teach different doctrines than Calvinists, who follow the teachings of Mr. Calvin. Apparently Southern Baptists teach a different brand than regular Baptists, and anyone with a Bible is free to establish a “Northern” Baptists denomination. So the question is, What’s your authority? The Bible? That’s what they all say. And to them I say:
*
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment: It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to choose out men, and to send them unto you, with our well beloved Barnabas and Paul: Men that have given their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves also will, by word of mouth, tell you the same things.”-- Acts 15:1-24*

 

[Calgar]

No, most follow other self-appointed freelance Bible interpreters. Lutherans, follow the teachings of Luther, and teach different doctrines than Calvinists, who follow the teachings of Mr. Calvin. Apparently Southern Baptists teach a different brand than regular Baptists, and anyone with a Bible is free to establish a “Northern” Baptists denomination. So the question is, What’s your authority? The Bible?

That’s a far cry from 33,000.

 

[rushrules98]

My brother is SB. I go after the main 2 pillars of their beliefs: Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. Ask questions like this: How do you know the Bible is the Word of God? Because it says so? It’s a book. There had to be an outside Authority to decide which books belonged in the Bible and which ones didn’t. Show Mom 1 Tim 3:15, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Show her Matt 18:15-18, who is the final Authority? The Bible? Nope. The Church.
Ask her how she knows someone named Mark wrote Mark for example. The answer is because the Catholic Church says so.
Ask her to show you in the Bible where it says you are saved by Faith Alone. She will show you any number of verses. None will contain the word: Alone. Then show her James 2:14-26, with special emphasis on 24.
Study, listen to good talks like John Martignoni at www.biblechristiansociety.com. His talks are free on CD or MP3.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I sent my mother this “The basic difference is that the Catholic Church is the mystical Body of Our Blessed Lord and was founded by Him to save all men bringing them to God. It is God’s dispensation for man’s salvation. The Baptist religion is an heretical breakaway from Catholicsm which started over fifteen centuries after Our Blessed Lord left us the Catholic Church and is based on individual’s who disagreed with how Our Blessed Lord went about trying to save us. The Baptist religion thus redefines everything that Our Blessed Lord left us, including denying books of the Bible and all the traditions which were not written down in the books of the Bible that they do accept. Catholics Christians believe that you only have one choice in life, whether to follow Our Blessed Lord or not. You have to make that choice over and over again until you die, but it is your only choice. Baptists believe that you can decided HOW you want to follow Our Blessed Lord.”

AND SHE REPLIED THIS

"The Protestant Reformation came about because of the errors and heresy of the Catholic
Church. The breakaway was necessary; to go back to what Jesus intended for His church;
and this was started by Martin Luther centuries ago. During this period of time; the Catholic
Church KILLED all people; whom were protesting and leaving the Catholic Church; and this
is referred to as the Christian Crusades.

Thus, there is only one simple way; to be saved; and it is NOT through mother Mary, or anyone else…ONLY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, THE LORD! It is idolatry to pray to this
person or anyone else, except Jesus. For those whom have been cleansed, by the blood of
Jesus; and are sanctified by His Grace; are considered saints. Not to be prayed to; but to
be grafted into the family of God. The Baptist Church goes strictly by the Bible; and is
without error; because God’s Word is truly without error. The Catholic Church has added
to their religion things that are NOT Biblical…praying to mother Mary; and other saints to
get healed, saved, or to have certain prayers answered. Plus having to pay money for the
remission of one’s sins (penance); etc. We can only pray to the Trinity; that is God, the Father, Jesus, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; all of which are three persons one of the same. The Catholic Church adopted 13 additional books of the Bible, as their own; which theologians have determined that are really not the pertinent Words of God; that needed to be included, in the world wide acceptance of the now known living Word of God; mainly the King James Version of the Bible. They are so very many things Christ accomplished on
earth…miracles, etc.; that there are not enough books in the world to contain everything. Thus, just the most important writings are mandatory.

This priest is saying things that are NOT true; such as, we do traditions that are not in the
Bible; which is a lie. Also, once one is saved; by putting their lives and trust in Lord Jesus;
and following Him in accordance to His Holy Word; then that person is saved for eternity.
They don’t have to say it over and over again. But, their live style must reflect a “changed
Born-Again position”; and they need to obey Jesus and His teachings faithfully. Baptists
don’t decide on their own how they are to follow Jesus. This is NOT true! True believers
do what God desires in the Bible; and don’t decide how they are going to live independently
from Christ’s will.

Survivors of the Titanic chose to take a life boat to safety; instead remaining on the ship;
because it was the biggest thing around; and they thought, that it wouldn’t sink. Many
people perished unnecessary. Are you going to take that chance too? Yes, there could be a few Born-Again Christians in the Catholic Church; staying there why I don’t know. Probably just to socialize; or to appease family/friends. But, I won’t risk my eternal destiny on something that isn’t totally and completely agreeable with God. I suggest that you do the
same. Sure you have the right to go and do what you want, at this age; but a loving son
would do what their parents say; because they are much wiser (usually) than the child; and
know which avenue to go down safely; especially when it comes to their eternally destiny. "

OP, this is FUNDAMENTALIST Baptist, not mainstream Baptist. These are the true anti-Catholics. Those are all of their talking points. I advise you NOT to push too hard right now. You need to have some facts to hold onto, and you need to understand the history of the Church, or YOU could be vulnerable to this forceful point of view. Please tread carefully and give your mom some space while you learn more about the history of the Church and Her Tenets.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

That’s a far cry from 33,000.

Well, judging by the local Yellow Pages, the listings were around 7,000 in the Chicago area alone, so go figure. The Scripture speaks about appointed overseers (bishops) to tend the local flock under one authority. Mr. John Smyth, the father of the Baptist religion was just one among a cacophony of thousands of voices teaching without authority. But this was the problem even in the times of the apostles:

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that some going out from us have troubled you with words,* subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment: *It hath seemed good to us, being assembled together, to choose out men, and to send them unto you . . who themselves also will, by word of mouth, tell you the same things."-- Acts 15:1-24

 

[pablope]

You realize that the book of mormon is not the Bible, right?

Yes. Let me rephrase…JS claimed a revelation…then claimed to restore the true church…then wrote his own book. I think he even wrote, through I think incomplete, a commentary on the Bible (as informed through mormon threads on the non-C section.)

 

[pablope]

Still waiting to see your source on this. (insert foot tapping)

philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

Independents (about 22,000 denominations)

Let’s deal with these first, since this is the largest mega-bloc (22000+ “denominations” of the total 33000+). These are broken down into various large groups, and their lists and numbers span from the bottom of page 16, through page 17, and most of page 18. I’m not going to type all of these since the list is quite long – much longer than any of the groupings in the other mega-blocs which are listed below in full. I will quote a major sampling of these “Independent” Christian groups, and still try to cover the whole list:

African Independent Apostolic
Black American Apostolic
Filipino Apostolic
Indian Apostolic
another 8 groups have “Apostolic”
African Independent Charismatic
Black American Charismatic
Chinese Charismatic
another 14 groups have “Charismatic” or “Neocharismatic” …

So we take the 9000 Protestant denominations plus 21,340 (97% of 22,000) plus 168 (Anglicans) =
30,000+ total Protestant/Anglican denominations.

This was back in 2000…so extrapolate to today…and you get…???

So if you disagree with the 33K…what do you think the number is?

 

[pablope]

Wow, that’s a huge number. Where did you get it?
pablope;9066265:

I’ve heard this line of commentary from Roman Catholics before.

The RCC is blameless on what?

And when these ministers mislead, who are they accountable to? Where is the authority to tell them to stop teaching and to correct themselves?

From 1John 4…6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

As John writes here…to know and recognize the truth…one must listen to an apostle…and today, who are their successors…the bishops.

And that is why St. Ignatius wrote…

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm

And this is how the RCC discerns which is from God and which is not.

You doubt the Bible?

I do not doubt the Bible…but I do doubt those who claim to know what the Bible speaks of, without the proper apostolic lineage.

I cited to you Acts 13…Paul is laid hands on or ordained…do you know who founded the Church at Antioch? He is not there at Paul’s ordination…but the elders are…those he appointed…see the lineage?

 

[Calgar]

Well, judging by the local Yellow Pages, the listings were around 7,000 in the Chicago area alone,

You do realize that many churches in such a large city can be the same denomination, right?