Help I feel trapped in the web of the CC

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Mike, as difficult as it is for you right now, maybe talking to your family about your path of discernment will help you put your feelings into perspective. I’m sure it helps to discuss your process with us, but they may shed light on things that maybe you have missed – you might have underestimated them. Maybe the pride and love they will feel towards you because you care enough to try to work through all of this will be just the encouragement you need to help you along this path.

Now this is going to sound strange, but I was watching Life on the Rock on EWTN a couple of weeks ago, and they had a Priest on who is sanctioned by his Bishop to perform exorcisms. The conversation moved to the Eucharist, and to how many Catholics question the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist and he pointed out something that I certainly had never thought of. Satanists believe that the consecreated Host is the body of Christ and send their minions into Catholic Churches to steal them (go up for Communion but not put the Host in their mouth), so that they can desecrate Christ’s body in their rituals. Even Satan knows that Jesus Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, so how can we not believe?

It might also help to not think of the Host as a thing, but as Him. Perhaps if you can make that distinction in your mind, it will make it easier for you to see His presence before you, and not that of an object. Keep working it, you have made great progress and we are certainly proud of you!!!
 
My gratitude to you all again…Thanks for reading & for caring enough to offer your advice to me.

I went to pray again today & it was good… still so strange to me even 20 some years later, I just keep expecting someone to come up to me when I’m at church…with a greeting or something…it’s just so different not to socialize at church. I am no longer put off by this though, as it is something I am learning to understand…even appreciate… in a new light. The annonimity of the personal level of relationship that Catholics have with God is very special too - I can see that now, thanks to you guys. I put this part of the culture in the “good stuff” catagory now.

Eventually here, I think I need to get up the nerve to talk with a priest…another hurdle for me to face…but it’s a new year coming.

Hope you all enjoy a good New Year in 2010…
 
Thanks for checking in Mike! So glad to hear you are doing well, still on your journey.

I so wish I could send the Monsignor from my parish to you! He is an amazing man who has taken many areas that were a bit gray still for me and made them crystal clear. He has a way of explaining things that takes away all confusion. But I’m here in OH and you’re there.

I also wish more churches were open to developing a bit more social aspects. Our parish has what is called Hospitality Sunday…a cookies and coffee break between the 8 and 10:15 Mass and then again between the 10:15 and noon Mass once a month. My husband and I plan to attend the next time. My mother in law has gone a couple of times and I already notice a difference in her interaction with other members of the church. It seems that once given the opportunity to actually meet and talk with one another bonds do begin to form. I myself find more people smiling my way and nodding in my direction and saying hello to me as I get more involved. I am feeling less of the sense of isolation that had bothered me before.

I honestly have to attribute some of it to me feeling more a part of the church than I had in the past. Attending RCIA classes and taking those steps to truly be a member of the church already give me a sense of truly belonging or at least being on my way.

Hang in there…
 
mikehere said:
My gratitude to you all again…Thanks for reading & for caring enough to offer your advice to me.

I went to pray again today & it was good… **still so strange to me even 20 some years later, I just keep expecting someone to come up to me when I’m at church…with a greeting or something…it’s just so different not to socialize at church. ** I am no longer put off by this though, as it is something I am learning to understand…even appreciate… in a new light. The annonimity of the personal level of relationship that Catholics have with God is very special too - I can see that now, thanks to you guys. I put this part of the culture in the “good stuff” catagory now.

Eventually here, I think I need to get up the nerve to talk with a priest…another hurdle for me to face…but it’s a new year coming.

Hope you all enjoy a good New Year in 2010…
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May God bless you in the coming year.
I believe God has many blessings in store for you in 2010.

I just wanted to make a quick comment on the bolded section above.
For myself, I am put off by people coming in and “socializing” in Church. When I am in Church I’m either preparing for the mass, giving thanks for the mass, or I am trying to find quiet time to be with Our Lord, and in His presence. That is why I go to Church instead of a resturant/grill or other “social watering hole”.
When people come in talk to me or begin socializing around me it becomes a distraction to my prayertime. It’s not that I particularly mind a quick hello, or glance and wave, but people do not need to be exchanging “news” and “gossip” and “recipes” and what have you - in what amounts to a “stage whisper”, loud enough to be heard 2 pews back.
There are plenty of places that these things can be exchanged, in the parking lot, or the local resturant over coffee etc.

Sorry - Getting long winded again.
My point is, as you are discovering, that our time in the presence of our Lord in the Eucharist should be one of focus on God, on preperation, thanksgiving, and prayer, not one of focus on each other.

Having said all of this, I do agree that parishes should work to make themselves more welcoming to newcomers by having “coffee in the cafeteria” type events.
I think that this is one area where converts will really helpt The Church.

Peace
James
 
Well said James…I’m understanding this now…Thanks, information IS the deal 🙂 …have great New Year !
 
Mike,
I did not know it until I read your post but guess I have blessed with a really good parish church. They are not pushy but everyone smiles and nods when you go in. There is actually a welcoming group outside the church that greets you and welcomes you to the church or asks how you are doing. Granted it is not as social as a protestant church but I actually like that. Maybe I had bad experiences in protestant churches but the ones I attended were very social but only if you were part if the “in” crowd.

I am currently RCIA to be taken into the Church. The program has been wonderful so far. That is actually much more social than the Mass. It is hard for me though since I am shy but I am getting there.

The only thing I would suggest (besides maybe finding another priest at another church to talk to) is getting involved in a repetitive type activity so you are meeting the same group of people over and over. I think that will help me.

Don’t give up though – if nothing else, I would recommend Father Lukefahr’s books as a good basis for self study of the Catholic faith. (self study is what got me convinced I need to become a Catholic).

You are in my prayers
 
Hi Mike,
I didn’t read the whole thread, so I apologize if this was already discussed here. Reading about how the Mass was celebrated in early Christianity, I found this:

“Also, in Chapter 66 of Justin Martyr’s First Apology, he describes the transubstantiation which occurs on the altar: “For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Saviour was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66:1-20 [A.D. 148]).”

cited from:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Tridentine_Mass

The early undivided Church regarded the Eucharist as more than bread and wine, they believed that Christ was truly present there in the Eucharist. I can add to this that today, not only the Catholic Churches (Roman Catholic, as well as some 22 Eastern Catholic Churches such as Maronite in Lebanon, Melkite in Syria etc), but also the Eastern Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Antiochian, of Alexandria, of Jerusalem, etc), which split from the Catholic Churches in the 11th century, believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist. The Oriental Orthodox Churches (Syriac, Coptic=Egyptian, Armenian etc) which split from the early undivided Church in the 4th century, also regard the Eucharist as we Catholics and as the Eastern Orthodox do - they believe that Christ is present under the visible appearance of bread and wine.

The point I’m trying to make is that this was a universal belief of early Christianity and of the early undivided Church. By the early undivided Church I mean in fact a bunch of Churches that covered the territories of Europe, the Holy Land, Asia Minor, North Africa, the whole early Christianity. These Churches formed the undivided Church in the sense that they were all in communion with each other and they all believed the same thing.

Although, there were always movements of Christians who disbelieved it, who were considered “heretics” (heresy = error) by the Church. Heresy is a technical term for error of doctrine, but today we usually don’t use it because it can be mistaken for an intent to insult someone. Here I use heresy and heretic in the technical sense only, to mean an error of doctrine, or a person who believes such an error. E.g. in the 13th century Europe, followers of the Albigensian and Cathari heresies did not believe that Christ was present in the Eucharist. I don’t know enough about the very early Christianity, but they also had many different heretic movements, and quite possibly included heretics who did not believe Christ was present in the Eucharist. However, at the same time, belief in the Eucharist as we Catholics believe today, can be traced back to the beginnings of Christianity, and belief in it was more like the norm than an exception. Even today, this belief persists in all the Catholic (some 23 Catholic Churches - Western and Eastern) and Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches whom all trace back their belief to the beginnings of Christianity.

Another BIG subject would be the Eucharistic Miracles - direct supernatural events, documented throughout the 2000 years of the Catholic Church (plus the Eastern Orthodox also had such miracles, I was told). These miraculous events would deserve a whole thread of their own, perhaps in another section of the forums.
 
Oh, and why is it so important that belief in the Eucharist was universal in the early Church, and written about in 148 A.D. by Justin Martyr? Because this was little over 100 years after Jesus’ death and resurrection, and some 50 years after John the last Apostle died. This evidence strongly argues in favor of continuity of this teaching and its traceability back directly to Jesus Christ and his 12 Apostles. Apparently, this is how the 12 Apostles understood it, and this is how they taught the early Christians, when they spread Christianity throughout the world.
 
Thanks Joe for your explination & all the effort in this… I have been corresonding a bit w/ a couple on line friends here at caf since I last posted…& been to pray a few more times too. Yesterday I linked my thread to a priest at the church were I’ve been praying, Asked him to read our story & think about talking to me. We’ll see where it goes…this is the only way I could come up with that I felt “brave” enough to follow through on… in reaching out to a priest.

Today I have an opt’y to go to church all by myself & I plan to do this. It is something I have been looking forward to. - At the Cathedral in St Paul…thought you guys might like to know …have a good Sunday everyone.

Mike
 
Hi Mike,

I was just checking in here before heading to Mass and then on to RCIA class. It’s funny but I as I waiting for the site to load I was wondering how you were doing.

I applaud you for finding a way to reach out to a priest that makes you feel comfortable. Keep following the Holy Spirit where it leads you. You’ll find your way.

Have a Blessed Sunday~
 
What follows is just my opinion.

I think it’s good for you to go to Mass by yourself, without the pressure of your family there.

Of course it’s a fabulous witness (esp. to single people like me) to go to Mass with your family as a unified group, but while you are still trying to sort out your own faith, I am glad you have the opportunity to go on your own.

As you grow in faith on your own, I would think that would make it easier to go to Mass alongside your wife and family.

I am a convert from a protestant tradition that emphasised a “personal relationship with Christ.” While we take unity very seriously as Catholics, the church does stress the need for personal conversion. (It just needs to be in line with Catholic teaching as a whole.)

I think, from what’s been said on this thread, that you are on the right track.

Thanks for the updates. I’m sure the others on this board, including myself, rejoice in each step of faith you take. It strengthens my own faith when I hear the conversion stories of others, and I feel privileged to walk alongside you (a little) in your journey toward Christ in the Eucharist.
 
Mike,…your remarks about transubstantiation was an item that came up in our RCIA class the other day and the remarks were such that I thought you might appreciate.
As we were discussing the Eucharist, as a reasonably sensible person, I made the remark about how it seemed all too sensible to believe that the bread and wine really don’t change when the priest consecrated them at a mass. Yeah, it’s a nice symbol and all, but come on! Yet, there must have been some reasonably sensible people too years ago.

Take some time and review the Eucharistic miracle in Lanciano, Italy in 700 AD

trosch.org/inx/lanciano.html

While this priest also questioned this issue of transubstantiation,……I kidded the class with a number of questions as we all know the medical advances and tools that they had back in the eight century, but how could this “thing” occur!

For centuries, they knew this was a special event, but likewise didn’t have anything other than their faith to believe that the bread and wine became the real body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. While the wine dried into 5 droplets, the technology was real good even in the nineth century, but what they could do was weigh the five droplets of what ever they were. And while the droplets were all the different sizes, they all weighed the same! Something strange was going on.

Then a couple hundred years later, the bread and wine had not turned to dust, so you really knew something strange was going on! But then in 1970 they used the technology available to mankind, and what did they discover? The host was not bread, but REAL flesh. And not just human flesh, but flesh of a heart!! WOW!! And those droplets,…real human blood! Both of these still have not turned to dust. I then kidded the class as we all know the surgical equipment they had in 700 AD and,………… Oh, and why was the blood type the same of less than 5% of the world (type AB), but also the same type found on that Shroud of Turin?

I ended with why do all these weird things (miracles) always seem to happen with this one group? Catholics,……you should do some research on all these signs that maybe our Lord has given you and me. We all laughed as I stated why don’t any of my friend’s churches, such as my friend’s church downtown, “The Salvation Holy Roller Fun Time Good Time Church, Twice Reformed”, why don’t they have any of these items? Again, the laughing went into silence as there is no answer.

There are many signs for us. He is another site with Eucharist miracles and info.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

I never knew of these events, but as a Faith Formation teacher, I have learned much, including “Teaching Teacheth the Teacher”. 🙂
 
Hi

Mike here…I have reason to believe someone reading my thread offered me commuion at Mass last Sun…Please…I am currently corresponding with a priest from another church, and my wife and family are not yet aware of my journey here at CAF. I will tell them soon…but, I ask that you respact my privacy. I am honored by your attn and your offer, but I want to do this the right way. No harm was done…no offense taken, actually quite the opposite…but I cannot recieve until I finish sorting all this out & go through the proper methods Thanks Mike
 
mikehere said:
Hi

Mike here…I have reason to believe someone reading my thread offered me commuion at Mass last Sun…Please…I am currently corresponding with a priest from another church, and my wife and family are not yet aware of my journey here at CAF. I will tell them soon…but, I ask that you respact my privacy. I am honored by your attn and your offer, but I want to do this the right way. No harm was done…no offense taken, actually quite the opposite…but I cannot recieve until I finish sorting all this out & go through the proper methods Thanks Mike
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👍 🙂
 
mikehere said:
Hi

Mike here…I have reason to believe someone reading my thread offered me commuion at Mass last Sun…Please…I am currently corresponding with a priest from another church, and my wife and family are not yet aware of my journey here at CAF. I will tell them soon…but, I ask that you respact my privacy. I am honored by your attn and your offer, but I want to do this the right way. No harm was done…no offense taken, actually quite the opposite…but I cannot recieve until I finish sorting all this out & go through the proper methods Thanks Mike
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Mike:

All Eucahristic ministers have the same instructions. To approach the alter with your arms crossed for a blessing or union with our Lord’s Church,…is great! I pray for your RCIA involvement and acceptance!

Know that you and your family are in my prayers every day. Please keep us advised.
 
That’s the thing…I did not go up…I never have…I sit in the pew…by the table w. the supplies…the servers table just happens to be next to where my wife chooses to sit…I was sitiing there while my wife & kids were kneeling after they had gone to commuion waiting for the left over hosts to be put in the tabernacle, & this commuinion person comes over w/ a host in her hand and asked me if I wanted “a commuion” I knew it was wrong & she had to also…she has sat in the front rows like we have for 10 yrs…& HAD to have known I’m not a Catholic…she is VERY active in the church - appears VERY informed / involved …it knocked me off my seat that she would do this…

Yesterday I met w/ a wonderful priest in person…something I never thought could ever happen…umong other things we talked about, he suggested this was from God…like a sign inviting me to pursue the Catholic faith…She may not have thought this out…just something God “made” her do…on impulse??? heavy stuff…coupled w/ much more…

I’m doing pretty good…also pretty scared of all this too at the same time

Again Thanks for reading / sharing w/ me…I will write more when I can

Mikehere
 
Wildkit said:
Mike:

All Eucahristic ministers have the same instructions. To approach the alter with your arms crossed for a blessing or union with our Lord’s Church,…is great! I pray for your RCIA involvement and acceptance!

Know that you and your family are in my prayers every day. Please keep us advised.
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The “arms crossed blessing” thing varies from state to state, Diocese to Diocese and even Parish to Parish. It is a questionable practice at best.

Everyone gets a blessing at the end of Mass. Staying in one’s pew when one cannot receive is the proper thing to do at Mass anywhere on this planet.
 
kage_ar said:
The “arms crossed blessing” thing varies from state to state, Diocese to Diocese and even Parish to Parish. It is a questionable practice at best.

Everyone gets a blessing at the end of Mass. Staying in one’s pew when one cannot receive is the proper thing to do at Mass anywhere on this planet.
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Actually crossing your arms over your chest is the proper etiquette when you are not receiving the sacrament. It lets the Priest or Eucharistic Minister know that you would like a blessing and that you are not able to partake of Eucharist. It is not a questionable practice it is what you are supposed to do, it is an option open to those who are not able to partake, it is also in every description about the order of the liturgy of the Eucharist that I have ever seen, however staying in your seat is the other option and it is perfectly okay as well.
 
Rob_Brown said:
Actually crossing your arms over your chest is the proper etiquette when you are not receiving the sacrament. It lets the Priest or Eucharistic Minister know that you would like a blessing and that you are not able to partake of Eucharist. It is not a questionable practice it is what you are supposed to do, it is an option open to those who are not able to partake, it is also in every description about the order of the liturgy of the Eucharist that I have ever seen, however staying in your seat is the other option and it is perfectly okay as well.
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Please, post a link to the Vatican document that shows this is a sanctioned part of the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I am dying to see it!

I am well read in the GIRM, RS as well as the recent documents from the CDW on this topic, I’d be fascinated to see something that contradicts all of them!
 
It’s a common custom in the Latin Rite in the US and maybe Canada. It’s not recognized at all or even most parishes here, but it’s around. It’s not approved or disapproved.

Staying in the pew is approved and laudable, but not always logistically possible in all parishes.

“When in Rome, do as the Romans do”. Follow the custom of the parish you’re attending, unless you have good reason to do otherwise.

Everybody should be sure to remember, though, that in Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, crossing one’s arms generally means that one is asking for Communion. Our opposite custom is derived from people who misunderstood what the Eastern folks were doing.

Anyway… to go back to what was said before, weird stuff happens. Don’t let yourself be too upset by it at this delicate time.
 
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