Help me to learn to pray the LOTH

[mercygate]

From divineofficefordodos.com/

Dodos is being reprinted. We expect shipment in 6-8 weeks. Bookmarks and ribbons will be fully supported following the new printing. Advance copies may be ordered and we will ship when this is available. For more information, contact the author, Madeline Pecora Nugent, or visit the Bookstore at www.penitents.org.

Hurrah! Although I think I am finally getting the hang of this and feeling less frustration I can’t wait until this book is reprinted. I want to buy a copy, but…I noticed there is one listed as Used-Good (A few pages contain minimal highlighting, and cover shows just a hint of shelfwear. Otherwise excellent condition. Cover is glossy & clean. Spine is UNcreased - tight & square. Pages are otherwise white, tight, clean, & straight.) for $40.00 at amazon.com Wow!!

How much does this cost brand new?

FORTY DOLLARS??? It was $19.00 new. Don’t do it! I’m contacting Madeline (sister Margaret) about this. I’ll let you know what I find out.

 

[Philothea53]

FORTY DOLLARS??? It was $19.00 new. Don’t do it! I’m contacting Madeline (sister Margaret) about this. I’ll let you know what I find out.

Thank you. It’s hard to think that someone who prays the LOTH would try to cheat a fellow Catholic that way.

 

[Melo]

This may be a stupid question but is it available online or do you have to purchase the books?

 

[mercygate]

This may be a stupid question but is it available online or do you have to purchase the books?

For the “real deal” you have to buy them.

You might ask about used ones at a senior center for Religious. The convent near me is a retirement/nursing home. They have about 5 funerals a year, and have donated some breviaries for the CFP to distribute to people who can’t afford them.

 

[Melo]

Thanks Mercygate. I guess I’ll just have to break down and buy one.

 

[mercygate]

Thanks Mercygate. I guess I’ll just have to break down and buy one.

If you’re just “shopping” you might start with Christian Prayer. But if you have a system in place, support, perhaps a Rule of Life, I strongly recommend the 4-volume Liturgy of the Hours. For someone who cannot pray ALL the hours ALL the time, you at least have the full presentation of Vigils (aka Office of Readings). That alone is worth the price of admission. I know people who pray only MP, EP and Readings/Vigils. Even if you can’t do Vigils EVERY day, it is a fantastic punctuation to your devotional life a few times a week.

 

[ddeluna]

This morning - 9/13 - is the obligatory memorial of St. John Chrysostom. I got a “quick” (ha!) question on it.

The (St. Joe) guide for Christian Prayer cites the Thu. Psalter in addition to the memorial. (MP (1426 or 1435) 897). However, based on how I prayed it, I never went to the Psalter. Everything was either in the C.of Pastors, Sun. Wk1, and the concluding prayer from C. of Saints.

Did I pray correctly?

 

[mercygate]

This morning - 9/13 - is the obligatory memorial of St. John Chrysostom. I got a “quick” (ha!) question on it.

The (St. Joe) guide for Christian Prayer cites the Thu. Psalter in addition to the memorial. (MP (1426 or 1435) 897). However, based on how I prayed it, I never went to the Psalter. Everything was either in the C.of Pastors, Sun. Wk1, and the concluding prayer from C. of Saints.

Did I pray correctly?

The psalter for obligatory memorials is taken from the regular psalter for the day, not from the Common. Why Sunday week 1? What was that? I don’t have my breviary here but I think you must have gone to the Common, which directed you to the Sunday wk 1 Psalter – which you might have read had this been a FEAST – e.g., if Chrysostom is your parish patron.

 

[AJV]

This morning - 9/13 - is the obligatory memorial of St. John Chrysostom. I got a “quick” (ha!) question on it.

The (St. Joe) guide for Christian Prayer cites the Thu. Psalter in addition to the memorial. (MP (1426 or 1435) 897). However, based on how I prayed it, I never went to the Psalter. Everything was either in the C.of Pastors, Sun. Wk1, and the concluding prayer from C. of Saints.

Did I pray correctly?

Almost. On all memorials, except very very few (we got a rare one coming up day after tomorrow for OL Sorrows) the psalms are prayed from the psalter rather than from Sunday Week 1.

The way it should have been was
God come to my assistance…
Hymn from the Common
Psalms + canticle from the psalter
Rest (Reading, responsory, Antiphon for the Canticle of Zachary/Mary , intercessions) from the Common
Closing prayer from the Proper of Saints under September 13

(Posts 58 and 59 maybe helpful)

ETA: Whoops, sorry mercygate, I cross posted

 

[PhilotheaZ]

This morning - 9/13 - is the obligatory memorial of St. John Chrysostom. I got a “quick” (ha!) question on it.

The (St. Joe) guide for Christian Prayer cites the Thu. Psalter in addition to the memorial. (MP (1426 or 1435) 897). However, based on how I prayed it, I never went to the Psalter. Everything was either in the C.of Pastors, Sun. Wk1, and the concluding prayer from C. of Saints.

Did I pray correctly?

ddeluna, By the time I found your moved thread, it seems that you have already gotten some good advice here. Yes, even though the Common of Pastors does say “Psalms and canticles from Sunday, Week I,” you only actually do that when the day is celebrated with greater solemnity (Feast or Solemnity). If you belonged to a parish named after St. John Chrysostom, you might go that route on his day. I know it can be confusing! Sometimes the best way to learn is to pray along with someone who knows the ropes. (Or spend a week in retreat at a monastery where you can listen to the nuns or religious brothers do it!)

 

[drforjc]

Almost. On all memorials, except very very few (we got a rare one coming up day after tomorrow for OL Sorrows) the psalms are prayed from the psalter rather than from Sunday Week 1.

The way it should have been was
God come to my assistance…
Hymn from the Common
Psalms + canticle from the psalter
Rest (Reading, responsory, Antiphon for the Canticle of Zachary/Mary , intercessions) from the Common
Closing prayer from the Proper of Saints under September 13

(Posts 58 and 59 maybe helpful)

ETA: Whoops, sorry mercygate, I cross posted

Couldn’t the part from the readings up through the intercessions also have been taken from the weekday and the proper closing prayer from the saint’s proper? I thought we had a choice on memorials on those parts of the office.

 

[mercygate]

Couldn’t the part from the readings up through the intercessions also have been taken from the weekday and the proper closing prayer from the saint’s proper? I thought we had a choice on memorials on those parts of the office.

The prayer is definitely proper. Whatever is proper should be used.

Our friend AJV might have a more definiteve explanation but I believe the option to take the readings etc from the weekday is ony for optional memorials. Chrysostom is an obligatory memorial.

 

[maryj]

I haven’t read the entire thread, so I don’t know if this has already been posted:

liturgyofthehours.org/todays_prayers_four_volume.htm

Would someone check this out for me and see if it is correct for using Christian prayer. I was reading ddeluna’s post and thought this might help but want to make sure it is correct first of. Thanks in advance. And might I add that my time spent praying the LOTH for the last few weeks is turning out to be the best part of my day. I absolutely am overjoyed that I have begun this path of prayer. Thanks to you all for your tutoring, it is much appreciated.

 

[AJV]

Couldn’t the part from the readings up through the intercessions also have been taken from the weekday and the proper closing prayer from the saint’s proper? I thought we had a choice on memorials on those parts of the office.

Yes, if it is not Proper then the weekday is a valid option to the Common for most memorials. But since ddeluna is familiar with the Common I gave that option. There are a few exceptions (e.g. Ss. Joachim and Anna)

Basically (this is not official and given in the GILH but is more of an inference on my part based on instructions given within the book) there are different ‘types’ of Memorials (whether Optional or Obligatory). The variations are in the saying of Morning and Evening Prayer

1. Memorials which are like feasts. That is, the psalms are from Sunday Week 1 for Morning Prayer, and from the Common or special Proper psalms are appointed for Evening Prayer. They have Proper psalm antiphons and other exclsuive elents like the reading, responsory, etc.

e.g.
Beheading of St. John the Baptist - Aug 29
OL Sorrows- Sept. 15
OL Rosary - Oct 7
The Guardian Angels-Oct 2
St. Agnes- Jan 21
St. Mary Magdalen-July 22
St. Martin of Tours - Nov 11

1. Memorials which are like quasi-feasts. The psalms are from the weekday but everything else HAS to be taken from the Common or is Proper.
   e.g.
   St. Joseph the Worker- May 1
   St. Barnabas - June 11
   Ss. Joachim and Anna - July 26
2. Memorials which have Proper antiphons for the canticles of Mary/Zachary (Gospel canticles) and a Proper closing Prayer. The psalms are from the weekday. Everything aside from the Gospel Canticle Antiphon and the Closing Prayer, can be taken from the weekday or Common.
   e.g.
   Ss. Cornelius and Cyprian- September 16
   St. Vincent de Paul - September 27
   St. Theresa -October 1
   St. Francis- October 4
3. Memorials which have only a Proper Closing Prayer. The psalms are from the weekday. Everything else aside from the Closing Prayer can be taken from the weekday or Common

 

[ddeluna]

ddeluna, By the time I found your moved thread, it seems that you have already gotten some good advice here. Yes, even though the Common of Pastors does say “Psalms and canticles from Sunday, Week I,” you only actually do that when the day is celebrated with greater solemnity (Feast or Solemnity).

God bless you for hunting me down. You are a huge help, as are many others who jumped in. I’m gonna print this out and review it when I get home. I keep getting interrupted in the office (can you believe it, they expect me to work!) and this topic requires (for me) a good deal of focus to understand. I’ll get it soon enuf. I have everything else down pretty much. I just need to now fold in solemnities, feasts, and memorials and you are helping me a lot with that. Thanks for being really patient and helpful, all of you. God is great.

 

[ddeluna]

ddeluna, By the time I found your moved thread, it seems that you have already gotten some good advice here. Yes, even though the Common of Pastors does say “Psalms and canticles from Sunday, Week I,” you only actually do that when the day is celebrated with greater solemnity (Feast or Solemnity).

Ok, I got it. Thanks. Now, this evening (oblig. mem. Chrysostom) in EP for C. of Pastors, it DOES have the psalms, canticle, rather than redirect elsewhere as it did for MP. So I prayed them. Again, this meant that between the C. of Pastors and the concluding prayer for Chrystostom, I never got to the psalter. I think what you instruct is that if not in the common, use the psalter, and ignore the redirect to Sunday, Week 1 unless it’s actually a solemnity or feast, right?

Or did I mess up again?

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Ok, I got it. Thanks. Now, this evening (oblig. mem. Chrysostom) in EP for C. of Pastors, it DOES have the psalms, canticle, rather than redirect elsewhere as it did for MP. So I prayed them. Again, this meant that between the C. of Pastors and the concluding prayer for Chrystostom, I never got to the psalter. I think what you instruct is that if not in the common, use the psalter, and ignore the redirect to Sunday, Week 1 unless it’s actually a solemnity or feast, right?

Or did I mess up again?

For a Memorial, I always use the psalms in the Psalter, unless:

• there are specific psalms given in the Proper of the day (e.g., October 2, Guardian Angels, has its own psalms for Evening Prayer),
• or if the Proper gives specific instructions to the contrary (e.g., August 29, Memorial of Beheading of John the Baptist, has the instructions “Psalms and canticle from Sunday, Week I” at Morning Prayer and “Psalms and canticle from the common of one martyr” at Evening Prayer.

In other words, the Psalter is the “default option” for Memorials. I would use the Psalter for Evening Prayer for John Chrysostom.

 

[porthos11]

Ok, I got it. Thanks. Now, this evening (oblig. mem. Chrysostom) in EP for C. of Pastors, it DOES have the psalms, canticle, rather than redirect elsewhere as it did for MP. So I prayed them. Again, this meant that between the C. of Pastors and the concluding prayer for Chrystostom, I never got to the psalter. I think what you instruct is that if not in the common, use the psalter, and ignore the redirect to Sunday, Week 1 unless it’s actually a solemnity or feast, right?

Or did I mess up again?

Please read the red text in the Ordinary. You will see there (for Evening Prayer)

For the memorials of saints, the psalms and antiphons are taken from the current week of the Psalter, unless there are proper psalms and antiphons.

Clearly, there were no proper psalms and antiphons for the Memorial of St. John Chrysostom, so you should have recited the psalms and antiphons from Thursday, Week III.

As for the Reading, Responsory, Ant. Canticle of Mary, and Intercessions, you had the option of using the Weekday or the Common of Pastors or Common of Doctors (again, the red text says so).

 

[ddeluna]

Please read the red text in the Ordinary. You will see there (for Evening Prayer)

For the memorials of saints, the psalms and antiphons are taken from the current week of the Psalter, unless there are proper psalms and antiphons.

Clearly, there were no proper psalms and antiphons for the Memorial of St. John Chrysostom, so you should have recited the psalms and antiphons from Thursday, Week III.

As for the Reading, Responsory, Ant. Canticle of Mary, and Intercessions, you had the option of using the Weekday or the Common of Pastors or Common of Doctors (again, the red text says so).

Gee. :doh2:
I swear, I wasn’t this mentally challenged when I was younger. It only came after 5 kids.
THANK YOU guys. Really. Soon enuf, I’ll return the favor and be able to help those that come to the LOTH after me.

 

[ddeluna]

For a Memorial, I always use the psalms in the Psalter, unless:

• there are specific psalms given in the Proper of the day (e.g., October 2, Guardian Angels, has its own psalms for Evening Prayer),
• or if the Proper gives specific instructions to the contrary (e.g., August 29, Memorial of Beheading of John the Baptist, has the instructions “Psalms and canticle from Sunday, Week I” at Morning Prayer and “Psalms and canticle from the common of one martyr” at Evening Prayer.

In other words, the Psalter is the “default option” for Memorials. I would use the Psalter for Evening Prayer for John Chrysostom.

Sheesh. I really gotta pay attention, and it’s sometimes subtle. I can only be redirected for psalms and canticles if the redirection occurred from inside the proper, not from elsewhere even if the proper had redirected me their to start with. ie. Peter Claver, 9/9 redirects to C. of Pastors, then C. of Pastors redirects to Sunday Wk 1 for psalms and canticle. :hypno: