Help!? This man states that the Catholic Mass is gravely wrong?

[fbl9]

Why did early father say we are His monstrance? When did they start having processions, parades with the Sacred Monstrance?..thanks for your response /posting.

Look at this from a Catholic’s beliefs.
The host present in the monstrance is God. If you believed God was fully manifest before you would you not have some shred of reverence?

 

[po18guy]

Where did I say it was another sacrifice ? It is a re sacrifice right?

It is not a “RE” anything. The mass IS Calvary. It is the exact same sacrifice that you read of in the Gospels. We are at the foot of the cross. We are at the empty tomb. Time stands still. It comes to us and we are drawn into it. It is a slice of heaven on earth. Jesus always bears His wounds, so that we will always remember.

Yes he offers himself continually,in light of His finished work at calvary.

But, we don’t think of Calvary as existing only in the bible. It still is. It is eternal.

Calvary and His intercessory “offering” prayers for this day’s graces are related but not the same. One part is finished forever, the other is daily
and occurs efficaciously because of the former.

Christ opened the door, but we must still walk through it. It is not automatic - it requires a response on our part to God’s grace. All are called, bot not all respond.

Yes,it is this that the corinthians were not discerning at their "mass"Yes there are other offerings (thithes etc ). “Somehow automatically pure”? Certainly one who believes in transubstantiation can see how this(pure praise) can be possible also.

God is due adoration, praise, thanksgiving, propitiation for our sins, and petition for our daily needs - in that order. Yet, we still sin. How can even our praise be 'pure"? Especially in light or Romans 7? Job 14:4 says: “Who can make him clean that is conceived of unclean seed ? is it not thou who only art?” So, we are not a pure offering and neither is our praise pure, since we are sinful by nature. We need the Holy Spirit to purify our offering, the bread and wine as well as ourselves, so that it is not of ourselves that we would boast of it.

That is what we are discussing.Was the last supper a sacrifice offering or a remembrance? I thought the command was to do in remembrance.

The command is to 'DO THIS". Do what? Eat His Body and Drink His Blood. Now, we do this* in remembrance*, but there is no remembering without the doing - the remembering cannot occur without first the “doing.” As well, we have life within us by the doing of it, and retain that life by the remembering.

Who consigns Christ to past tense ? Eucharist is present thanking and He inhabits the remembrance, and we also do this till his future second coming. I think it is newer thought to muddle this past present and future of an event that occurred on Golgotha. Do you mind someone saying he is coming again? Do you mind saying Calvary death and resurrection was 2000 years ago?.

The physical events happened long ago, but the sacrifice is unending - present even to us today. We cannot separate who and what we are right now from what he did for us, is doing for us now, and will do for us in the future.

Understand CC view . Does Orthodox have monstrance? Why did early father say we are His monstrance? When did they start having processions, parades with the Sacred Monstrance?..thanks for your response /posting.

Monstrance comes from the term for “demonstrate” It is a manifestation - the physical presence of Christ. He said that He would be with us untilt he end of the age. The Holy Eucharist is how He is with us. As He said in John 6, we have to “gnaw” on him, eating His Body and drinking His Blood to have life in us. That is how He remains in us and we in Him. True communion.

 

[Monica4316]

Spare 6 minutes to watch this speaker explain why the Catholic Mass is wrong…
youtube.com/watch?v=kfAIaOp1VW4
“Roman Catholic Jesuit Vatican Mass Denies the Sufficiency of Christ Jesus Sacrifice”

What do those of you who know about the ins and outs of Mass say in defense to/of this?

My audio isn’t working… but regarding the Mass and the sufficiency of Christ’s Sacrifice:

the Mass is not something separate from the Sacrifice. It’s the Sacrifice at Calvary re- presented before us. We are spiritually at Calvary… and so we receive the grace from it. It’s like a way of bringing graces from Calvary, to us. Also, the Eucharist is offered to the Father, but it’s an unbloody sacrifice: it’s the same Sacrifice as the Cross, being offered. Hence: the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s not a re-sacrifice as if it’s against or contrary to the Cross.

 

[Monica4316]

po18guy;10585952:

Where did I say it was another sacrifice ? It is a re sacrifice right? .

I’m not sure what you mean… it’s the original Sacrifice, being presented before us. Then Jesus is offered to the Father.

Does Orthodox have monstrance? Why did early father say we are His monstrance? When did they start having processions, parades with the Sacred Monstrance?..thanks for your response /posting.

I don’t have the quote, but - Jesus is in us, and we can bring Him to others, maybe in that way we are His monstrance

the monstrance as in the object - for Adoration… I’m not sure what time this started, maybe some centuries ago. I don’t think the Orthodox have Adoration but they do have a liturgy of Pre-Sanctified Gifts, where they prostrate themselves before the Eucharist, - this is not idolatry cause the Eucharist is Christ Himself. We kneel before Him. The processions and Adoration are tied to Corpus Christi, this is a feast that came through revelations from God, also the Sacred Heart devotion is very Eucharistic.

This might help you audiosancto.org/sermon/20120415-Divine-Mercy-History-of-the-Feast-and-Our-Need-For-It.html it mentions Corpus Christi, which is related to Adoration and processions - this might help you understand how it came to be in the West. As for Divine Mercy feast, - it’s tomorrow (Sunday 7th). It’s a very special day because Jesus gives many graces this day - again it’s not something separate from the Cross, it’s together with it. The graces we receive through the Sacraments are there because of the Cross… so when the sermon talks about Jesus’ promise to forgive all temporal punishment, not only eternal punishment, - usually temporal punishment (the effects of sin, not the eternal guilt) are taken away through spiritual growth, suffering with love for God, etc - but here, Jesus just cancels it through a special grace. If we don’t accept God’s Mercy, we would have to face His Justice, and then who can be saved, since we’re sinners? But at the Cross, and shown by the Divine Mercy devotion, - Mercy has triumphed over Justice. We’re given a time to repent, that’s why there’s this feast day, to help souls come to God with more trust, and receive His Mercy. This devotion has really helped me and God has really used it in my life to bring me closer to Him and trust Him more. If you’re unsure of anything, just pray about it and don’t reject it, cause it could be from God I believe that it is.

God bless

 

[po18guy]

I’m not sure what you mean… it’s the original Sacrifice, being presented before us. Then Jesus is offered to the Father.

FYI: That was pocohombre’s quote, not mine.

 

[steve_b]

Spare 6 minutes to watch this speaker explain why the Catholic Mass is wrong…
youtube.com/watch?v=kfAIaOp1VW4
“Roman Catholic Jesuit Vatican Mass Denies the Sufficiency of Christ Jesus Sacrifice”

What do those of you who know about the ins and outs of Mass say in defense to/of this?

I won’t waste my eyesight.

Here’s how important the mass is, and why it’s a mortal sin to deliberately miss mass on Sunday or holyday.

Heb 10: (all emphasis mine)
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. 26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27* but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28* A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29* How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

Notice

• deliberately missing mass Sunday, is already a very serious sin worthy of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries
• because there no sacrifice for sins as a result of deliberately missing mass.
• It is a profaning of the blood of the covenant for deliberately missing mass
• It spurns the son of God and outrages the spirit of grace

Why does missing mass do all that?

• the sacrifice for sin and blood of the covenant refers to the Eucharist. The summit of our faith.
• Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus the son of God said those words instituting the Eucharist the night before He died.*. *Jesus further describes the importance of the Eucharist for the soul.
• Jn 6:53* unless you* eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you*. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day*. Life of the soul is grace in the Eucharist*.*

Therefore, the one who deliberately misses the Eucharist on Sunday, after being given the knowledge of truth, says in effect to Jesus, I’m interested in other things more than you.

To recap, that’s why for THEM,

• no sacrifice for sin is left for THEM.
• they profane the blood of the covenant
• they spurn the son of God & outrage the spirit of grace
• judgment awaits them

all that for deliberately missing mass on Sunday!!!

We don’t make this stuff up. It’s right from scripture.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Certainly one who believes in transubstantiation can see how this(pure praise) can be possible also.

That’s called salvation by works, friend. You can’t save yourself by your praise unless you are united to Calvary. We are talking about that union in the Eucharist, you are talking about what comes after and requires the Eucharist.

 

[pocohombre]

OK … u’ve been to Mass … and Watched/Heard the Priest, as he proclaims the blessing and the Transmutation/Transubstitution occurs.

Then, you heard the “Pray my brothers and sisters that OUR sacrifice may be acceptable to God the Father Almighty” …you’re thinking sounds great !!!
But, instead we respond, “MAY the Lord accept the sacrifice at YOUR [the Priest’s] hands”.

Now, … the wording sounds strange to you. When you hear OUR sacrifice-------- you are thinking [our Praise, Title offerings, Prayer, our Thanksgiving]-------------------- at/from OUR hands."

Well, that’s very Protestant of you !!! As Protestants, we were taught “Everyman a Priest” ! We are all equal in God’s eyes !! That old Levitical Priesthood was made caput, when the Temple Curtain was torn. We all have equal access into the Holy of Holies.

When I was first going to Mass, I was thinking … "Why are we asking God IF HE WILL ACCEPT " … Don’t we trust the Father Will ? Oh WE of little faith, to even doubt that the Father might decline our offering of Praise, Prayer, and Thanksgiving.

And, also I’m thinking “if it’s the Eucharist”, that the Priest is holding in his hands, …[which I believe is the Real Presence] … “then why also, would we Ever Doubt that the Father might not accept Christ as that ONE AND PERFECT SACRIFICE”. We KNOW he has, He did so 2000 years ago !!! ------Why would we need the Priest to ‘petition’ God to accept the Eucharist ? It’s Christ himself !!!

So, I meditated on this for a few months, and finally I found peace about it.

Am I right … Is this the way you are hearing /seeing /considering those words being spoken ?

Partly. The “our” is good as you point out. The" sacrifice" word, not really good for me for the context in CC terms is Calvary re presented.The thanksgiving(Eucharist) was spoken in the Mass before all these words. it’s like there are two parts, first the thanksgiving, the second the prayer that it be acceptable. Not sure what gave you peace, except that it be for our sakes that we petition the Father to find it acceptable.Perhaps it is to “remind” the Father, as I have heard that is part of the meaning of remembrance, that He remember it, as He is reminded by the rainbow of the covenant with Noah. Or that we reapply the blood? Again it is the inconsistency. Have one part or the other, but both? It is like remembering a gift with thanksgiving then hoping He will find it acceptable as we offer it back to Him. Seek and ye shall find so I am sure if your mind is made up you will find peace about it.

 

[pocohombre]

Calvary AND at every Mass. Malachi 1:11, John 6, 1 Cor 11… Calvary is outside of time. That is why OT saints like Enoch and Elijah could be raptured. It wasn’t on their own merits.

I thought it is not actual Calvary in Mass , but a re presenting of Calvary.beyond that can not begin to wrap my thoughts around your complete statement.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Departed from topic and
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