Hey, is there anybody here at CAF, who believes that Jesus Christ had biological brothers and can you prove it?

[sola_scriptura]

you have it backwards. The ark is a type for Mary! The Truth is in the OT concealed and in the NT revealed.

Guanophore – are you willing to make a case for this idea? As I pointed out (I think pretty well) it seems to strain not only the passages concerning the Ark (and its purpose); but also the tenor of Scripture.

I laid out a detailed (or at least semi-detailed) exegesis; I’m willing to listen to a counter argument? Thanks!

 

[GeorgiaPeach]

There are a number of “James’” mentioned in the Scriptures. If you are referring to Luke 6:16 there is no reason to think this James is related to Jesus the brother of Lord since even His own brothers did not believe in Him during His earthly ministry. See John 7:5.

Yes, the name James is mentioned many times in a variety of ways. Some of these are obviously the same James.

In John 7 His own brothers believed Him to be the Messiah in the way Jews understood. They did not understand his relation to the Father. In John 14 the disciples even question this relationship. In John 16 they finally understand what Jesus has been trying to explain to them. He asks at the end of the exchange “Do you now believe?” Therefore, even they (the disciples) didn’t believe until it was clearly explained without using figures of speech.

The James who is related to Jesus via Mary and thereby His blood brother is mentioned in Matthew 13:55. This brother of Jesus is the one in whom our Lord appeared to after the resurrection in I Corinthinians 15:7 who later wrote the book of James.

James the brother of Jesus is also: the Apostle James (Gal 1:19), **Son of Alphaeus **(Act 12:1-2 shows James son of Zebedee died before Jerusalem council), James the Less, son of Mary’s sister, blood brother of Joseph (John 19:25, Mark 15:40, Matthew 27:56), authored the book of James

Gal 1:19"But other of the apostles [besides Cephas] I saw none, saving James the brother of the Lord"

 

[Good_Fella]

Faith in the veracity of an earthly institution is not the same thing as faith in God.

Earthly institutions were created by Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Weseley, Knox, Smith, etc, etc. etc… :juggle:

Since you believe the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, founded by Jesus Christ in 33A.D. (not 1600), has erred in her Marian teachings, you cannot be sure whether Arius or any of the like were correct by rejecting Christ’s divinity or the Trinity. But of course you pick and choose our doctrines according to their personal appeal, twisting them along the way from one denomination to the next. :tsktsk:

PAX :tiphat:

 

[Mailman]

A big difference in the use of the word blessed.

Examples : The Holy Spirit inspired Mary to say> HE God ].

James 5: 10-11 Holy Spirit inspired them to use the word WE not even an infrince that God said they were blessed. Contex, Contex Context.

Peace,OneNow1

Hi! Isn’t the Bible the Word of God and so any statement made by the writers can be attributed to come also from God? “All Scripture is inspired by God…” The phrase “inspired by God” is translated from the Greek theopneustos: theo (God) + pneuma (breath) – literally, God-breathed. When James said, “WE account them blessed who endured,” he was under the inspiration of God’s Holy Spirit, otherwise his statement would not be included as part of the sacred writings. His words were God-breathed (came from the breath of God), therefore the “WE” would include God.

God bless.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Earthly institutions were created by Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Weseley, Knox, Smith, etc, etc. etc… :juggle:

Since you believe the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, founded by Jesus Christ in 33A.D. (not 1600), has erred in her Marian teachings, you cannot be sure whether Arius or any of the like were correct by rejecting Christ’s divinity or the Trinity. But of course you pick and choose our doctrines according to their personal appeal, twisting them along the way from one denomination to the next. :tsktsk:

PAX :tiphat:

Yes I can be. Moreover, I dispute your definition of “church” …

 

[rinnie]

Yes I can be. Moreover, I dispute your definition of “church” …

S S I guess you are really right.

CCC 816 The SOLE Church of Christ is that which our Savior after his Resurrection entrusted to Peters Pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. The Church constituted and organized as a society in the present wrold subsists in the Catholic Church which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him. unquote.

Now that is the Church that we got our Bible Scripture from, our Oral Teachings and our Tradition. Now do we not have the same teachers. same Apostles, if so how can our teachings come from another church what church would that be?

 

[KenEOTE]

Faith in the veracity of an earthly institution is not the same thing as faith in God.

I never said it was the same. I said it takes faith to believe.

This is yet another question that people argue about that I think really does not matter in the sense of salvation. Did Jesus have biological brotehrs and sisters? Both sides have thier arguements and will not bend? Will it get you in to heaven believing one way over the other on this issue? No.

 

[rinnie]

S-S okay but then why did Jesus leave us the earthly institution. Why did Jesus say that he is part of his Church, they cant be separated like the bride and bride-groom, they become one. Why did he say that the Church was where he would be. Where 2 or more gather in MY PRESENSE. How could he be present in the Eucharist Did he lie when he said this is my body, bread etc. No . He would never lie. Where do I go to receive him them, if not the earthly institution. without Christ the Church would just be a building. But with Christ the Church is where we find him. Where we can always be sure he will be. Especially in the Eucharist he promised me that. Why did he say his Church would be here until he comes again in glory. I do not understand?

 

[MrS]

Good point!

Mary’s tomb is empty, as is Christ’s unkown tomb. There are no known tombs of any siblings of Jesus.
PAX :harp:

Of course we remember that not long ago “they” announced that they “found” the remains of a “brother”.

The same mindset that wants to discredit Catholic teaching was proven to be false. The Catholic Church has endured attacks for 2000 years, from within and without… and survived in spite of it all.

SS, you are fighting a losing battle…

.

 

[Good_Fella]

Of course we remember that not long ago “they” announced that they “found” the remains of a “brother”.

The same mindset that wants to discredit Catholic teaching was proven to be false. The Catholic Church has endured attacks for 2000 years, from within and without… and survived in spite of it all.

I’ve heard of the alleged discovery of a tomb containing the bodies of both our Lord and his siblings together. It could be that Jesus was actually the biological son of Joseph after all.

PAX :harp:

 

[KenEOTE]

I’ve heard of the alleged discovery of a tomb containing the bodies of both our Lord and his siblings together. It could be that Jesus was actually the biological son of Joseph after all.

PAX :harp:

One of the issues they have is that Jesus name was very common name. If we translated the name properly from Hebrew it would be Joshua. So you got to think there were plenty of Joshua’s who’s dad would have been named Joseph.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Of course we remember that not long ago “they” announced that they “found” the remains of a “brother”.

The same mindset that wants to discredit Catholic teaching was proven to be false. The Catholic Church has endured attacks for 2000 years, from within and without… and survived in spite of it all.

SS, you are fighting a losing battle…

.

That’s all you guys really have to toss at me – red herrings (like tombs discovered supposedly proving Jesus was not resurrected and was the son of Joseph). The logically fallacious attempt to connect my fair and reasonable objections to your doctrine with these so called discoveries is really a preposterous tactic, which makes the weakness of your argument shine.

Moreover, I’m really not fighting a battle – since I know I’m right. The fact is through these discussions I’ve learned quite a bit about about Mariology & the Catholic Church & it has bolstered my outlook.

So think what you want – it’s of no matter to me.

 

[Matariel]

That’s all you guys really have to toss at me – red herrings (like tombs discovered supposedly roving Jesus was not resurrected and was the son of Joseph).

Catholics have always believed the Ressurection!

Moreover, I’m really not fighting a battle – since I know I’m right.

Over against 2,000 years of the Catholic Church founded by Christ on the first Bishop of Rome, Peter?
Don’t you know what the Scriptures say about “private interpretation”?

:tsktsk:

Clement:

Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles…

Irenaeus:

The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome]… handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus.

Cyprian:

If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?

With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source.

So think what you want – it’s of no matter to me.

We love you Sola! Just keep thinking about what you’re learning. I used to be a hardcore Protestant. It takes awhile to stop resisting and persisting in Protestant bias, but eventually, it kind of washes over you… and then there’s nothing you can do about it, except take it or leave it.

 

[sola_scriptura]

Catholics have always believed the Ressurection!

and so do I

Over against 2,000 years of the Catholic Church founded by Christ on the first Bishop of Rome, Peter?

If I thought for a second your delusions had any veracity like I said … I’d run to the nearest RCC and kiss the feet of – well whatever you guys like to kiss (but I reserve the right to wipe it off with an alcohol swab first)

Don’t you know what the Scriptures say about “private interpretation”?

you said scriptures say then you cited three men & no scripture? Hmmmm … gee call me silly but scripture never said a thing about private interpretation. God blessed me with the ability to read and gave me good reading comprehension skills. Sorry — I know you guys were up in smoke when Luther wrote a bible for the public. It’s been going downhill ever since.

We love you Sola! Just keep thinking about what you’re learning. I used to be a hardcore Protestant. It takes awhile to stop resisting and persisting in Protestant bias, but eventually, it kind of washes over you… and then there’s nothing you can do about it, except take it or leave it.

Let’s me recount what I’ve learned so far on CAF:

1. brother actually means cousin
2. sister means cousin
3. idols or graven images doesn’t include icons
4. we really don’t have one mediator but thousands
5. we have a new queen of heaven in hypostatic union with the Trinity.
6. we have a co-redeemer (not just Jesus)
7. ahh yes – my favorite … the perfect man, the Pope, who can do or say no wrong in matters of faith & morals.
8. I’ve learned various neat and fancy Latin words like Magisterium (I hope I spelled that right).

I learned some other stuff too – but I don’t want to drag this out too much

 

[Matariel]

and so do I

I thought you were saying we didn’t…!

If I thought for a second your delusions had any veracity like I said … I’d run to the nearest RCC and kiss the feet of – well whatever you guys like to kiss (but I reserve the right to wipe it off with an alcohol swab first)

I guess historians must be delusional?

you said scriptures say then you cited three men & no scripture?

What I cited was not what I was refering to! I thought you were already familiar with this little gem:

2Pet 1:20, St. Peter said, “This then you must understand first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is made from private interpretation.”

Hmmmm … gee call me silly but scripture never said a thing about private interpretation.

Um, look at above verse please.

God blessed me with the ability to read and gave me good reading comprehension skills. Sorry — I know you guys were up in smoke when Luther wrote a bible for the public. It’s been going downhill ever since.

Are you kidding!?? We preserved the Bible for 1600 years before Luther and had fiery travelling preachers-- and before that, no printing press. (Did you know the first book printed on the printing press was a Catholic Bible made by the Catholic Gutenburg? )

Let’s me recount what I’ve learned so far on CAF:

**1) brother actually means cousin
2) sister means cousin
3) idols or graven images doesn’t include icons
4) we really don’t have one mediator but thousands
5) we have a new queen of heaven in hypostatic union with the Trinity.
6) we have a co-redeemer (not just Jesus)**7) ahh yes – my favorite … the perfect man, the Pope, who **can do **or say no wrong in matters of faith & morals. [when speaking ex-cathedra]
8) I’ve learned various neat and fancy Latin words like Magisterium (I hope I spelled that right).

I learned some other stuff too – but I don’t want to drag this out too much

These are gross distortions. I’ve highlighted everything that’s a misrepresentation.

(P.S. the Latin “co-redemptrix” is not equivalent to co-redeemer in English; besides, it’s not an official doctrine, and is therefore irrelevent. )

 

[sola_scriptura]

2Pet 1:20, St. Peter said, “This then you must understand first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is made from private interpretation.”

Peter was referring to prophets & subjective interpretation (which I fully agree with). This was only referring to the RCC in your mind.

Are you kidding!?? We preserved the Bible for 1600 years before Luther and had fiery travelling preachers-- and before that, no printing press. (Did you know the first book printed on the printing press was a Catholic Bible made by the Catholic Gutenburg? )

you mean prompted by Tetzle up in Germany scaring poor Germans out of their food money … my favorite saying of all time:

A soul from purgatory springs when a coin in the coffer rings.

These are gross distortions. I’ve highlighted everything that’s a misrepresentation.

(P.S. the Latin “co-redemptrix” is not equivalent to co-redeemer in English; besides, it’s not an official doctrine, and is therefore irrelevent. )

Really – as far as I can tell my statements were exactly accurate. They are asserted by Popes, and it is the Catholic position (I don’t know if it’s official doctrine yet – but the immaculate conception, assumption, perpetual virginity, and so forth definitely are).

Moreover, saintly intercession and veneration are certainly official doctrine. The cousin theory is not official doctrine (but it is popular belief among Catholics).

 

[rinnie]

Now Now Sola Scriptua be nice, And the only thing we kiss is the feet of Jesus at Lent. And it never killed anyone. But my love im glad to see you are learning some things and paying attention. We will make a Catholic out of you yet!

 

[sola_scriptura]

Now Now Sola Scriptua be nice, And the only thing we kiss is the feet of Jesus at Lent. And it never killed anyone. But my love im glad to see you are learning some things and paying attention. We will make a Catholic out of you yet!

Hey Rinnie:

I’ll “consider” becoming Catholic the day elephants can fly

I have every confidence in the right teachings of Protestant churches – overall we (conservative protestant denominations) are in accord in all necessary matters of faith. Paul told us not to bicker about the nuances.

 

[rinnie]

Hey Rinnie:

I’ll “consider” becoming Catholic the day elephants can fly

I have every confidence in the right teachings of Protestant churches – overall we (conservative protestant denominations) are in accord in all necessary matters of faith. Paul told us not to bicker about the nuances.

Yes SS but all the Catholic Churchs teachings are right. And remember you never know. And i have heard Pink Elephants can fly. My Protestant friend really did tell me that. So be nice SS. Besides Protestants Love me too!

 

[justasking4]

Yes SS but all the Catholic Churchs teachings are right. And remember you never know. And i have heard Pink Elephants can fly. My Protestant friend really did tell me that. So be nice SS. Besides Protestants Love me too!

The Catholic church is in error about Jesus not having brothers through Mary. There are a number of passages that demonstrate this.