Hillary Clinton Thread

[mary_bobo]

Even if the pro-choice crowd wants this position adapted, it is still the correct position. I didn’t realize the pro-choice position was that women were victims of anything.

It seems that liberal politicians gain by playing the victim card and the gender card.

 

[Crossbones]

It seems that liberal politicians gain by playing the victim card and the gender card.

I thought it was the conservative politicians playing it in this case. The poor woman is a victim and doesn’t know what she is doing…

 

[jediliz]

Most abortions are done for convenience or used as birth control. A lot less are “hard cases”.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Certainly 99.999% of women who have abortions are not victims…

Source, if you please.

 

[Peter_J]

Certainly 99.999% of women who have abortions are not victims. I do agree that some are, e.g., the fourteen-year-old girl who is pressured into one by her parents or the wife with the physically abusive husband. Most women who go for abortions aren’t coerced, however. Most aren’t even coerced “softly” as one poster suggested. Most are just acting out of selfish reasons, i.e. they just don’t want a child or a child would be a burden to them.

Prosecutors have long recognized that most women who have abortions are not victims, but they’ve not prosecuted them because they wanted them to give up the name of the illegal abortionist. It’s analogous to the prosecution cutting a deal with a lesser criminal to put a bigger criminal in prison. The abortionist would be performing many more illegal abortions than one woman has, so the penalty went to the illegal abortionist even though, clearly, the women are culpable.

That’s a rather harsh take on it, but much better IMO than Trump’s call to punish the women.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That’s a rather harsh take on it, but much better IMO than Trump’s call to punish the women.

Changed it, of course. But everybody knows that.

I don’t think any reasonable person could doubt that Trump’s positions on the “social issues” are not particularly well formed. He’s a “function” person, not an “ideology” person, undoubtedly to a fault, because business people should all be philosophers as well as good at business. They should all be “Renaissance men”. I mean that sincerely, not being wry.

But though some are, not many are. More’s the pity.

I’m not a Trump supporter, but it isn’t necessarily reasonable to expect Trump to be all things we would prefer that he be. After all, we don’t expect Hillary Clinton to be honest, do we? And we don’t expect Cruz to be a whole lot more than a preacher.

At least right now we don’t.

 

[grotto]

So today wasn’t a complete bust as an Email Friday! The word is out that the State Dept. is pulling out all stops to keep 30,000 Hillary Chat emails CLASSIFIED! OH! Now they are too hot to release to Americans. Every other interested party knows what’s what! Naturally, they are keeping it close to their vest. Why let us know what they know then we’d know!

Not much is being reported this last week about the situation in Lybia having been taken over by ISIS. Do they have complete control, is there resistance? In case this matter has been relegated to a shelf in your mind, Hillary is responsible for the whole enchilada plus the blood bath of Benghazi! Many of the State Dept. Clinton emails were between Hillary’s BFF Sid Blumenthal - a money man in a trench coat that she did “bizness” with over the years she was Sec. of State and in her old days of being Bill’s enabler.

ISIS lost their hold on some oil but made up for it in Lybia. Wonder who is pulling the oil out of the ground and getting it to market. Think some $$ is involved?

Obama owns the Atty General, the Atty General owns the FBI, the FBI has had a vigorous investigation - its not over with yet, but will it produce fruit?

I’m sorry, but I want to see criminals get punitive justice.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Source, if you please.

Okay, this is the new thing I learned today. I will unashamedly say, “You are more right than I.”

clinicquotes.com/statistics-on-coerced-abortions/

thefederalist.com/2015/09/18/how-many-women-are-pressured-into-abortions/

theunchoice.com/articles/howcommoniscoercion.htm

lifenews.com/2009/09/08/nat-5443/

thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/10/08/coerced-abortions-a-new-study-shows-theyre-common.html

Fifty to sixty-four percent seems to be the general consensus. I will go with that.

However, what’s to say those husbands, parents, boyfriends, wouldn’t coerce a woman to have an illegal abortion, which is much more dangerous? I’m not endorsing abortion, but I think that’s a real concern. Illegal abortionists have always been around.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Changed it, of course. But everybody knows that.

I don’t think any reasonable person could doubt that Trump’s positions on the “social issues” are not particularly well formed. He’s a “function” person, not an “ideology” person, undoubtedly to a fault, because business people should all be philosophers as well as good at business. They should all be “Renaissance men”. I mean that sincerely, not being wry.

But though some are, not many are. More’s the pity.

I’m not a Trump supporter, but it isn’t necessarily reasonable to expect Trump to be all things we would prefer that he be. After all, we don’t expect Hillary Clinton to be honest, do we? And we don’t expect Cruz to be a whole lot more than a preacher.

At least right now we don’t.

Anything wrong with Kasich?

 

[Lily_Bernans]

That’s a rather harsh take on it, but much better IMO than Trump’s call to punish the women.

I grew up with nuns and Jesuits, with a strong sense of personal responsibility. I was always taught we are, ultimately, the only ones responsible for our actions unless, of course, we’re forced to do something at gunpoint. I hold myself to a very, very high standard, and I almost never blame anyone for anything I do but myself. I also have a very strong personality, not at all controlling, just strong with myself. I tend to hold others to that standard as well, but many people grew up with very permissive parents. As a result, some of them don’t take much personal responsibility at all. I deplore that. I admit it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Okay, this is the new thing I learned today. I will unashamedly say, “You are more right than I.”

clinicquotes.com/statistics-on-coerced-abortions/

thefederalist.com/2015/09/18/how-many-women-are-pressured-into-abortions/

theunchoice.com/articles/howcommoniscoercion.htm

lifenews.com/2009/09/08/nat-5443/

thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/10/08/coerced-abortions-a-new-study-shows-theyre-common.html

Fifty to sixty-four percent seems to be the general consensus. I will go with that.

However, what’s to say those husbands, parents, boyfriends, wouldn’t coerce a woman to have an illegal abortion, which is much more dangerous? I’m not endorsing abortion, but I think that’s a real concern. Illegal abortionists have always been around.

50 to 64% of women were, in some manner, coerced into having abortions? Not very good, is it? It isn’t terribly surprising. Wonder how many of those could have hid behind “It’s illegal. There are no doctors willing to go to jail to do it.” and resisted the person doing the coercing. And what if there really weren’t?

Enabling, with money and easy access (not to mention propaganda) someone who wants to push another into getting an abortion is an evil all its own. And if you know how many there are Lily Bernans, and I now do, a moral obligation to block the human sewage channel is inescapable.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Anything wrong with Kasich?

Dull and physically unattractive come immediately to mind. If, indeed, he did turn Anglican from Catholic, that’s a negative for me. If he really does cavil with abortion in the “two instances”, that’s a negative.

At present I support him, though. If he fails the nomination, which he almost surely will, then I’ll decide from there. But my primary is already over.

Next thing will be money. Will I donate to either Trump or Cruz if one gets the nomination? Sure I will. Not the greatest choice in the world, but it beats the alternative.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Goodbye all. Leaving it with you. Be of good cheer!

 

[_Abyssinia]

Goodbye all. Leaving it with you. Be of good cheer!

 

[Little_Sheep]

Lily Bernans;13844410:

…
Lily, I have to say I relate to you and a couple of others very closely!

And on the topic of Hillary Clinton, which I have strayed from, I can only say, she’s probably got what it takes better than anyone else as regards foreign affairs, which is hugely important

. There are no doubt better people (I’d be a Sanders supporter) but they stand less chance, and Trump is toxic.

I appreciate you checking in. I think it is very important for America to listen to all voices because our country plays a key role in all of the world.

And I agree with you that, hands down, Hillary is the person with the best grasp of, not only our country’s politics, but also, the world’s politics. IMHO, this is a key reason that we will elect her to serve as our next President.

 

[rmartensjr]

Okay, this is the new thing I learned today. I will unashamedly say, “You are more right than I.”

Fifty to sixty-four percent seems to be the general consensus. I will go with that.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Then perhaps you should be voting for Donald Trump.

Why? I know he said at one point women should be punished. But only those who want abortion to be declared murder under US law and made illegal should want the woman punished for her involvement in a murder. If someone doesn’t want it to be illegal, and it remains legal, then of course a woman shouldn’t be punished. If it’s not illegal, there would be no point in punishing her. Why would they vote for Trump?

The point being made is the inconsistency of those who want abortion to be made illegal and for it to be deemed murder under the law, yet would then be unwilling to prosecute someone involved in a murder. Just saying women don’t know what they are doing doesn’t cut it. Women know if they seek and procure an abortion, they are ending their pregnancy. Woman aren’t stupid for goodness sakes.

 

[Tomdstone]

The point being made is the inconsistency of those who want abortion to be made illegal and for it to be deemed murder under the law, yet would then be unwilling to prosecute someone involved in a murder. Just saying women don’t know what they are doing doesn’t cut it. Women know if they seek and procure an abortion, they are ending their pregnancy. Woman aren’t stupid for goodness sakes.

True, except that the question arises if it should be legal to advocate the murder of innocent people? When someone demands that religious beliefs be changed and that women have the right to murder innocent people, then there is a serious problem.

 

[Darryl1958]

The history of the Catholic Church in the conversion of the barbarian germanic tribes of Europe is a good example of how to guide people back from the abyss.
Punishment of the tribes for their bloodlust and the sheer enjoyment that they all took in private wars and marauding was not an option. Jails and gallows would be of no practical use in changing hearts and minds.
The path between the Viking and the modern Ikea representative has been an incremental one, as the goodness of peace of Christ is stressed, and regulations to the waging of wars are incrementally brought into effect.
There comes a point when the idea of waging a private war becomes abhorrent and unthinkable for the average Swede. In between there was the patience, the resolve, the perpetual state of forgiveness, and the unquenchable, unconditional love that the Church has for all sinners.
That is how the war against the barbarism of abortion needs to be waged too. We are not a gallows people. Fear is not our weapon.
Truth is.

It is not the position of the Church that women who abort their children need to be tried as murderers.

Anyone who truly supports punishing women who abort as murderers would never vote Democrat, never vote Hillary Clinton, never vote Bernie Sanders.

Democratic voters who support punishing women for aborting are not credible.

It is a laughable, cynical, dishonest position for anyone to take.

Truth of course is not a value for those on the left.

 

[Sy_Noe]

True, except that the question arises if it should be legal to advocate the murder of innocent people? When someone demands that religious beliefs be changed and that women have the right to murder innocent people, then there is a serious problem.

Of course the question arises, but not all faiths are in agreement on the issue.