Holding Hands at the Lord's Prayer

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Beverly:
For instance, I wouldn’t think of saying to anyone, “Let me say this very s-l-o-w-l-y so you can understand…” in a discussion about church. It is rude and condescending.
No, it was not rude. It was written out of frustration that some of you don’t seem to want to understand. I consider the responses of “you’re not a nice person if you don’t hold hands” condescending. That is exactly that attitude that drove me away from the church for several years.

It is a “hot button” on many forums because of all the liturgical abuses, it seems to be the most common. The church has spoken on several occasions that it represents something that doesn’t belong at that point of the Mass. I didn’t make that up on my own.

I will say it again. If families want to hold hands, it’s no big deal to me. But when the priest announces that everyone is to do it, and everyone links up in the big chain, only really starting to pray when the prayer is half done, and people reach out their hands and tap you on the arm and give you that “come on, join in the fun, my goodness what’s your problem?” look… well, that’s a different matter. That is what needs to be stopped.
 
First, off the FOCUS should be on Sacrifice of Calvary. How does holding hands help people focus on the Sacrifice of Calvary? The Pater Noster is right after the Consecration!! The eternal Sacrifice of Calvary is brought into temporal time. The time is to worship God not hold each other’s hand.

Go ahead, call me names. I do not care , because I am not being disobiedent to Holy Mother the Church when I refuse to hold someone’s hand during the Pater Noster.

Luckly, I know of places where they do not hold hands during the Pater Noster.
 
I can still remember the first time my Parish in Ohio held hands for the Our Father, I was under age 10, mid- 80s. I have no idea whose idea it was, but all the sudden the everyone was crossing the aisle holding hands, it was a shock, but I went with the flow. Over the years I have found it, at times, nice to be holding hands with my parents, husband and children, but must admit it has been a real distraction when it is a stranger, which makes me feel a little guilty and then I think about how we are about to take communion and that I should not do something that will embarrass or provoke them to anger right before communion. I can take or leave hand-holding, but I do think it interrupts the flow, I first learned of the debate this year. After reading this thread I can see there is a real need for a formal statement. Until then, I will bow my head and fold my hands unless I think it will cause someone to go to communion feeling frazzled. I have seen liturgical abuses that could knock your socks off, and as a lay person I want to protect the liturgy. It all begins with individuals trying to make unnecessary,small innovations, and ends with severe violations. Over 3 decades at the same parish we had a female director of RE do the homily, a decon give commuinion at a teen retreat by saying “Wanna hit?” instead of “Body of Christ” and showing film strips right before communion, this is just to name a few. We once had an openly Pro- choice, Pro -Clinton priest. When my pre-Catholic husband and I went through Pre-Cana, the deacon was so impressed with his belief in the true presence that he sneakily told him he could take communion as long as the parish priest didn’t know he wasn’t Catholic!! (No one could imagine the consequences this had when we both realized it was WRONG.)

I am a product of the Catechism-starved generation. I went through 5 yrs of Catholic school and the required amt. of CCD and youth ministry. I just bought my first copy of the Catechism 5 yrs ago and LOVE it. I can sympathize with lay people who don’t know the correct norms. How humbling it is to find out my “old fasioned” Grandmother was right about so many things!

Apologetics and teaching the Catechism are crucial to our local parishes. Being harsh and judgemental won’t go over very far. Teach with love and charity and please don’t bash our separated brothers… They could be tomorrow’s Catholics if they are taught the Truth in the Catholic Chuch with love, patience and compassion. If a person feels so strongly about this topic they should try to change it through the proper channels.

I don’t think anyone joined this forum to read mean statements about fellow Christians or rude comments about typing errors. I am proud to be Catholic, and feel called to apologetics toward my protestant friends, but refuse to spread hate.
 
Do not take what I or others say as hate. The Evangelical Protestants services are non liturgical in nature, that is not a value judgment, they are what they are, and they make no pretense in any belief in the real presence, they simpily do not(Mainline or Liturgical Protestants on the other hand, at least Epsicopalins and Lutherans, and some Methodists do believe in a form of the real presence) believe in the real presence.

Hold hands during mass is not in the rubrics, while for now, it may not be illict for now, but the question is, why emulate somthing that does not lead, and in fact may lead away from belief in the real presence? With so many Catholics not knowing what the real presence is, these issues must be pointed out.
 
Melman:
I will say it again. If families want to hold hands, it’s no big deal to me. But when the priest announces that everyone is to do it, and everyone links up in the big chain, only really starting to pray when the prayer is half done, and people reach out their hands and tap you on the arm and give you that “come on, join in the fun, my goodness what’s your problem?” look… well, that’s a different matter. That is what needs to be stopped.
Ahhhh…Ok, I can agree completely with that statement. If it is something done by a cluster of people, it’s fine and not an abuse. If it is announced that we should do it by the priest, then it is an abuse and against the rubrics. Even if it is not encouraged by the priest, but the congregation does it in a way that is disruptive to the Mass, then it is an abuse.

I was an obstinate non-handholder for a while, but I will now hold someone’s hand if they offer it to me since I think it would be offensive and disruptive if I refused it. OTOH, if I was in a parish (again) that formed a ridiculous human chain, I would probably go back to folding my hands and not accepting an offered hand (unless the person looked in need of a warm fuzzy 🙂 )
 
I’ve skimmed the comments and no one has mentioned hygiene as a concern with this practice.

I seem to get unlucky and find myself sitting near the person who is picking his/her nose before or during mass or has an ominous, productive cough. Folks, germs are real: viruses and bacteria.

As far as I’m concerned, a liturgical handshake with a couple of people nearby is more than enough to make the point. The people who go way over the top with hugs and kisses are not sharing a Christian sign – there’s something else going on there, and we all know it. I, for one, wish they grasped the meaning of “a time and place for everything.”
 
"I have to say that I agree with you…I don’t know why people get so upset over this matter…If you don’t want to hold hands, don’t."

I wish it was that easy! But folks won’t leave you alone.

I think the issue here is that people can be downright disruptive when you are busy praying and you don’t give them your hand. Folks aren’t content to just leave you be. That’s one of the main problems with the whole holding-hands-at-Mass issue.

I don’t like to hold hands during the Our Father and it really bugs me when people act all offended and snippy or worse: they come over into my pew and grab my hand anyway and then drag me out into the isle. That’s when the whole hand-holding buisiness gets annoying. Why on earth do they have to glower at me or drag me out into the isle? I end up losing my focus and being dragged out of my prayers either by nasty looks and whispers or someone snatching at my hand. Hello! I’m busy adoring Christ! Leave me be. It’s nothing personal or anti-social.

To keep the peace, if I’m right next to someone and they hold out their hand I take it even though I end up dragged out of my prayer. But if there’s space between me and someone then I keep my eyes focused on the altar and pray and don’t worry about it because I’m not even thinking about it.
 
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ToledoLegate:
We’re missing the point here…

Aside from the normal scenarios of holding a spouse or child’s hand…this is not the issue. The issue is the forced and inane Protestant Innovavtion of holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer thinking that this is a sign of communion and unity. It’s HERESY! It is not the Lord’s Prayer that is a sign and source of communion but that of receiving our Lord- Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in Holy Communion. THAT is the source of our unity and communion. Those who are new to the faith can visit my up and coming website devoted to precisely these troubling matters.

As for OPINIONS…they have no place in public worship.

It’s time to have Cardinal George as the Chief Liturgist for the USA!!!
Your statement about Cardinal George is interesting as he seems to not follow up on his priests when he finds the need to correct one of them concerning praying the mass. :gopray:
 
What? No comment on my post?
You can hold hands with anyone you please, just don’t grab my hand! I don’t hold hands for several reasons, not the least is that I sometimes have to hold on to the pew to stay upright. Grabbing my hands could make me fall over. We had to complain about a deacon who would grab the hands of the altar servers & squeeze so hard it hurt. My kids were very happy when he was told to leave the servers alone.

Yesterday a greeter greeted us so exuberantly that she sqeezed my hand & my daughter’s very painfully. Another greeter almost yanked my daughter off her feet. May God preserve me from glad handers! :eek:
 
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DigitalDeacon:
I personally think - “A mountain is being made out of a mole hill” on this issue. If I am with my wife at Mass which is not very often because I am normally in the Santruary doing my Diaconal Duties, I hold hands with my wife. If this offends anyone I am not sorry. We don’t need the Liturgy Police telling me I can’t hold my wife of 41 years hand .

DigitalDeacon
During the Lord’s prayer, why do we holds hands? Isn’t the focus on worshiping the Lord in the words He gave us? Shouldnt’ the focus be vertical rather than horizontal?

Personally, I used to do it but found myself being distracted. I found my mind wandering: Am I holding his hand too tightly? Too loosely? Does he have a cold? What is that brown thing? Did he just go to the bathroom?

We no longer hold hands as a family. What bothers me are the liturgical police who hit me on the shoulder and try to grab my hand while I’m standing with my head bowed and my hands clasped in prayer. Then, they get offended and don’t extend the sign of peace. I am also bothered by priests who instruct the congregation to hold hands.

Also, isn’t the purpose of holding hands during the Our Father a sign of community? Everything I have ever read has indicated that the Holy Eucharist is the sign of community among Catholics. I think that’s why it is commonly called Communion.

But that’s just me.
 
One thing that gets me is the veritable maze that is created by the hand holding.

My wife nurses our daughter. Sometimes this happens during Mass. My wife goes to the Narthex for this, but we still like to be together as a family for the Our Father and the Kiss of Peace. But so many people think it’s their God given right to cross over the aisles to hold hands with people in another section that the Nave turns into a maze.

And the look she gets when my wife tries to go past them to get to us, :eek: It seems unity and love only count when it’s a stranger next to you, not among a wife and her family.

If this hand holding must happen, could someone please tell me why it has to cross over the aisles!!!
 
Here’s what my Archbishop has to say on the matter (from archden.org/archbishop/docs/12_18_02_our_father_liturgy.htm):

The ‘Our Father’:
Appropriate gestures for prayer


December 18, 2002
Denver Catholic Register


Most Rev. Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver

"…The celebrant invites us to pray the words of Jesus in the “Our Father.” This is the prayer Jesus Himself taught us, and because of that, it’s the model prayer for the Church. How should we pray it? A lot has been said in popular writing about our gestures at this point of the Mass. Do we fold our hands, or hold them outstretched, or hold hands with those around us? Some people have surprisingly strong feelings about this issue. Our answer to this question needs to come from the Church’s understanding of this moment in the Mass.

The priest stands with his arms outstretched as the prayer begins. The assembly should also stand. There are no options for gestures listed in the General Instruction for this part of the Mass. For many persons, folding their hands during the “Our Father” is the best way to express their prayer. For others, they may hold their hands outstretched. Still others hold hands.

None of these gestures is mandated or forbidden by the Church. So our guiding principles should be respect for the dignity of the Mass, and respect for the freedom of our fellow worshipers.

Some people feel that holding hands during the “Our Father” enhances a sense of community. This is perfectly appropriate — so long as it can be done with dignity and without the unseemly acrobatics that sometimes ensue.

For other people, holding hands is a kind of intimacy they reserve for family members. It makes them uncomfortable to hold hands during Mass, and they prefer not to do it. This is also perfectly appropriate. A parish may have several ways of praying the “Our Father,” depending on the people who take part in a specific Mass. No one should feel coerced, and the beauty of the liturgy should always be observed. …"

:clapping: I think this is a rather reasonable approach to the issue. I like his reference to “surprisingly strong feelings” ! Also, he seems to indicate that something “not in the rubrics” is not necessarily prohibited… which I would think would be common sense, but it’s good to see this spelled out by an Archbishop whose orthodoxy is pretty hard to question.


 
Wow! An archbishop!

I have wondered since Redmptionis Sacramentum came out is why, if this is such a black and white issue and the most prevelant abuse in the US, was this issue not addressed? Does this document’s silence on the issue weaken the arguement from silence that is used so often? Surely someone in Rome is aware of this practice.
 
By holding hands during the Lord’s prayer, you cannot but be distracted by the community around you. Why not concentrate on this wonderful prayer given to us by Jesus and then shake hands moments later during the Handshake of Peace? Why not wait to say hi to your neigher in unity , AND take those few special moments during the Lord’s Prayer to adore and worship God?I bet that if Jesus came down from heaven, we wouldn;t all hold hands as a community, but we’d fall on our knees in adoration.
 
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BayCityRickL:
I’ve skimmed the comments and no one has mentioned hygiene as a concern with this practice.

I seem to get unlucky and find myself sitting near the person who is picking his/her nose before or during mass or has an ominous, productive cough. Folks, germs are real: viruses and bacteria.
Actually, I did, but maybe it was in the other thread on this subject. Can’t keep them straight anymore :o I just thought it was strange that when the flu was going around last winter, several dioceses asked the faithful to refrain from shaking hands during the Sign of Peace and to not receive the Precious Blood if they were ill. However, NO mention was made of not holding hands during the Our Father, which to me, would be a bigger chance of spreading germs (longer contact) than either of the above. Maybe it’s because if they recognized it, they would have to admit it shouldn’t be done in the first place? :hmmm:
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BayCityRickL:
The people who go way over the top with hugs and kisses are not sharing a Christian sign – there’s something else going on there, and we all know it. I, for one, wish they grasped the meaning of “a time and place for everything.”
Well, I do kiss my dh & kids, but just a quick little peck. I also say “I love you” to them rather than “Peace be with you.” Not sure if this is correct, but it seems appropriate for our family. However, I don’t hug or kiss anyone outside my family, and only shake hands with those in my immediate vicinity.

BTW- I have a dear friend whose 11yo son got yelled at for not holding hands during the Our Father, or shaking hands with others during the sign of peace. He, and his whole family, hugged each other, but they nodded greetings toward others around them. The man who yelled at him (after Mass) was sitting 2 or 3 rows behind him, so it’s not like he was being personally ignored. Just felt it was his duty to “set him straight,” I suppose. Didn’t have the guts to approach the adults in the family, just the kid. Somewhat traumatic for the kid, but he’s a good boy and just offered it up…:getholy:
 
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Iohannes:
Go ahead, call me names. I do not care , because I am not being disobiedent to Holy Mother the Church when I refuse to hold someone’s hand during the Pater Noster.

.
First, neither are the people being disobedient to her when they do hold someone’s hand during the Lord’s Prayer.

Secondly, please don’t try and display your intelligence by using Latin. It’s annoying.

jp2fan
 
Man, we are going in big time circles here. And people are being entirely too mean. I"m so done here, and I really think the issue should just be laid aside. It’s not getting anywhere!!! Besides, it doesn’t really matter what we think. It’s about what the Church tells us to do on the issue. And my bishop, Chaput, has basically told us we can do either as of now. So I say, let’s just stop the bickering. And I want to reiterate that people here have gotten really mean about the issue.

Don’t we all have bigger fish to fry???

jp2fan
 
I hold hands with my wife during the Lord’s Prayer. If some one else holds out their hand, I have no problem holding their hand either, but my preference would be that it just be a family thing, rther than a total church requirement. Again, it seems to be a very trivial matter to worry too much about.
 
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