holy father?

[djrakowski]

Now this is a good case in point.

MfM say that everyone who is a believer and reads the Bible can rightly divide it. His case fails in that there are a myriad of interpretations and all profess to be correct, which cannot be true, right?

Then, in another thread concerning apostolic succession, another n-C says,
So? Which one is correct? By their own words and logic…neither.

It seems that “he rightly divides scripture” means “he agrees with what I believe it means.”

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Colossians 3:10
10and have (A)put on the new self who is **being (B)renewed ****to a true knowledge **(C)according to the image of the One who (D)created him–

PSA 51:10

Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Do ya’ll think the Right Spirit within us whom indwells in us will err on matters of eternal life? Cause if ya do you’ve got some to learn in the faith department.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

In scripture the only way God gives to understand scriptures is…

grow in knowledge (2 Pet. 3:18),
study (2 Tim. 2:15),
exercise senses (Heb. 5:14),
search (Acts 17:11),
receive (James 1:21),
read (Eph. 3:3-4),
desire it (2 Pet. 2:2),
let it unfold (Psalm 119:130),
meditate on it day and night (Psalm 1:2)
hear it read (Rev. 1:3),
have it preached (2 Tim. 4:2-4; 1 Pet. 4:11),
test what is said (1 John 4:1; Matt. 7:15-16),
prove all things (1 Thess. 5:21).

These verses are easy to understand, does the CC have an interpretation different from my understanding, on these?

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Do ya’ll think the Right Spirit within us whom indwells in us will err on matters of eternal life? Cause if ya do you’ve got some to learn in the faith department.

But myfavoritmartin. . .

why would we then need you to point things out to us?

VC?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Per you personal interpertation-but who gave you the authority to interpert Scripture for the rest of us?

You’ve never said how you used your imperefect nature to determine/interpret that the CC was the right church for you, please share with us BOB!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Do ya’ll think the Right Spirit within us whom indwells in us will err on matters of eternal life? Cause if ya do you’ve got some to learn in the faith department.

But myfavoritmartin. . .

why would we then need you point things out to us?

VC

 

[guanophore]

apologetics=defending the faith
Ignore=seered conscience.

By all means if your conscience tells you to ignore me go ahead!
But remember…
THIS STUFF ISN’T FROM ME, IT IS FROM THE WRITTEN"WORD OF GOD"

myfavoritemartin, we have been given the divine deposit of faith from the apostles, and have a responsibility to guard that faith. Ignoring you does not equate ignoring the word of God, which emanated from that Divine deposit of faith which we hold. equating the things you say, and your interpretations with the word of god is the epitome of arrogance.

“…guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid the godless chatter and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 for by professing it some have missed the mark as regards the faith.”
1 Tim 6:20-21

 

[Church_Militant]

Do ya’ll think the Right Spirit within us whom indwells in us will err on matters of eternal life? Cause if ya do you’ve got some to learn in the faith department.

Well, if what you teach aligns with what the New Testament actually says and with what the early church wrote that they believed, then I’d say that you’d have a shot, but so far, you argue against beliefs that have been part of Christianity far longer than your sources of teaching. N-Cs can’t even agree among themselves and there’s so little consistency of teaching, that by your own words (or those of another fellow n-C) you indict your own position.

That makes the newer teachings a new wind of doctrine and another gospel, according to the Word of God.

That’s not the fault of the Catholic Church.

 

[djrakowski]

PSA 51:10

Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Do ya’ll think the Right Spirit within us whom indwells in us will err on matters of eternal life? Cause if ya do you’ve got some to learn in the faith department.

How do you determine which of the various Christians, espousing various interpretations on what scripture says about eternal life, has more of the Holy Spirit than another?

I mean, here’s a few of the positions staked out by supposedly Spirit-led Bible-only Christians:

1. You can lose your salvation by committing grievous sin, or you’re once-saved-always-saved
2. Baptism is necessary for salvation, or it isn’t
3. The Lord’s Supper (communion, eucharist) is symbolic, or there’s some form of real presence in the elements after they’re consecrated

In each of the 3 examples I’ve included above, which is the more Spirit-led position? Be careful in responding, as you’ll find some of your Protestant brothers and sisters who disagree with your positions on these matters, and I don’t know that they’ll be too happy with an assertion that they don’t have the guarantee of correctness that being guided by the Holy Spirit affords.

 

[estesbob]

In scripture the only way God gives to understand scriptures is…

grow in knowledge (2 Pet. 3:18),
study (2 Tim. 2:15),
exercise senses (Heb. 5:14),
search (Acts 17:11),
receive (James 1:21),
read (Eph. 3:3-4),
desire it (2 Pet. 2:2),
let it unfold (Psalm 119:130),
meditate on it day and night (Psalm 1:2)
hear it read (Rev. 1:3),
have it preached (2 Tim. 4:2-4; 1 Pet. 4:11),
test what is said (1 John 4:1; Matt. 7:15-16),
prove all things (1 Thess. 5:21).

These verses are easy to understand, does the CC have an interpretation different from my understanding, on these?

These verses are easy to understand, do you have an interpretation different from my understanding, on these?

Satan rose (Chronicles 21)
from the dead. (Acts 10:41)
to save (Genesis 45:5 )
all mankind ( Numbers 27:16)

 

[estesbob]

You’ve never said how you used your imperefect nature to determine/interpret that the CC was the right church for you, please share with us BOB!

It was easy-one only needs to examine the History of the Church to know it is the one true Church. Since there was no other Church at the beginning it was not a very hard choice at all.

 

[Pax]

myfavoritemartin,

According to scripture, who or what is the “pillar and bulwark of the truth?”

When you can answer this question from scripture, you then know where to go to obtain the truth.

When you know where to go for the truth you can also ask how it is that the “Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?”

Where does the guarantee to the Church come from?

Who or what leads the Church in truth and how?

Are you, or is any other individual interpreting scripture, called the “pillar and bulwark of the truth?”

If not, how is it that your interpretation of scripture is closer to the truth than what is presented by the Church which scripture declares to be “the pillar and bulwark of the truth?”

The bible identifies the Church with the truth. You are identified with the truth if you are aligned with and are part of the Church. On your own, you are separated from the pillar and bulwark of the truth, and you will easily be led astray regardless of your sincerity.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth through the Church. Any claim for individual interpretation and doctrinal definition that is separate from, or different from, that of what scripture declares to be the pillar and foundation of truth is something other than the truth. Truth is not relative…there is but one truth.

Are you truly in a position to know the truth while the Church does not? If so, then scripture is in error and is filled with contradiction. Catholics, for their part, humbly submit to the word of God and His Church.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

It was easy-one only needs to examine the History of the Church to know it is the one true Church. Since there was no other Church at the beginning it was not a very hard choice at all.

Whose interpretation of the History?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

These verses are easy to understand, do you have an interpretation different from my understanding, on these?

Satan rose (Chronicles 21)
from the dead. (Acts 10:41)
to save (Genesis 45:5 )
all mankind ( Numbers 27:16)

What are you saying here BOB???
Even Paul cherry picked scripture, but what you posed is simply diabolical in nature and is using parts of verses not verses…
Good job BOB! I gave quick snippets of what each verse was about…VERY sad Bob, what you’ve tried to compare…
Why dont you tell me how the CC interpretted my and your verses…Sheesh!

 

[estesbob]

What are you saying here BOB???
Even Paul cherry picked scripture, but what you posed is simply diabolical in nature and is using parts of verses not verses…
Good job BOB! I gave quick snippets of what each verse was about…VERY sad Bob, what you’ve tried to compare…
Why dont you tell me how the CC interpretted my and your verses…Sheesh!

Why would I need the Churchs interpertaion if, as you tell us, I am free to come up with my own? You disagree with my personal interperation of these verses? How can that be. The Spirit Dwells within me and Scripture promises me he will lead me to the truth. Yet you tell me my interperation is wrong!!! Can the Spirit lead us to different versions of the Truth???

Now for the last 2,000 years the Church tells us it was Christ who rose from the dead to save all mankind BUT I have been freed from depending on their narrow minded views of things. i dont need them-I have scripture and i have the Spirit dwelling in me! I cant be wrong,

In fact my personal interpertation of scripture proves I cant trust you!

Beware of (Job 26:31
space (Genesis 32:16)
aliens.(Exdus 6:4)

 

[myfavoritmartin]

i dont need them-I have scripture and i have the Spirit dwelling in me! I cant be wrong,

How do you know you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

 

[guanophore]

PSA 51:10

Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Do ya’ll think the Right Spirit within us whom indwells in us will err on matters of eternal life? Cause if ya do you’ve got some to learn in the faith department.

I do not think the Holy Spirit of God will err. However, I have witnessed errors in a great number of individuals in matters pertaining to eternal life, all of whom claim to have “the mind of Christ”, by way of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

In scripture the only way God gives to understand scriptures is…

grow in knowledge (2 Pet. 3:18),
study (2 Tim. 2:15),
exercise senses (Heb. 5:14),
search (Acts 17:11),
receive (James 1:21),
read (Eph. 3:3-4),
desire it (2 Pet. 2:2),
let it unfold (Psalm 119:130),
meditate on it day and night (Psalm 1:2)
hear it read (Rev. 1:3),
have it preached (2 Tim. 4:2-4; 1 Pet. 4:11),
test what is said (1 John 4:1; Matt. 7:15-16),
prove all things (1 Thess. 5:21).

These verses are easy to understand, does the CC have an interpretation different from my understanding, on these?

I think the only difference would be that Catholics know none of the ways that God has given us to understand scripture are meant to be separated from the Sacred Traditions from which those scriptures emerged.

You speak about “rightly dividing” scripture. It is like you are trying to cut with only half of a pair of scissors.

(History shows us the truth)

Whose interpretation of the History?

That one consistent with the mind of Christ, of course!

 

[estesbob]

How do you know you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Scripture tells me so-at least that is my perosnal interperation of Scripture does. .Besides I can have that warm glow one has when they just know the Spirit is dwelling in them!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Why would I need the Churchs interpertaion if, as you tell us, I am free to come up with my own? You disagree with my personal interperation of these verses? How can that be. The Spirit Dwells within me and Scripture promises me he will lead me to the truth. )

Careful you are mocking God!
To human is to error, but the Holy Spirit whom dwells within me can not error.

Eph. 4:30, And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Scripture tells me so-at least that is my perosnal interperation of Scripture does. .Besides I can have that warm glow one has when they just know the Spirit is dwelling in them!

You mock God, my conversation with you is finished…I am not comfortable with your ways.