Homophobic reaction to the abuse crisis discouraging me - what should I do?

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TheAmazingGrace said:
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phil19034:
Far too many people, the word “gay” means a whole lot of different things. Regardless of what someone says, there isn’t a standardize definition.
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Maybe you’re from a country where the word “gay” really is that confusing, but that’s not true at all for American English.
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Nope… I was born in the year 1977 & grew up in rural Delaware. Today, I live in the Philadelphia suburbs.

https://www.ignatius.com/Why-I-Dont-Call-Myself-Gay-P2637.aspx
 
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There’s a difference between those with SSA trying to live chaste lives and those actively living that lifestyle preaching it’s ok. I have to keep this in mind. I do feel a bit sectioned off sometimes though.
 
phil19034 said:
So does the word “gay” apply to chaste people with only same-sex attraction who don’t want to be part of that lifestyle or not?
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That they choose to call themselves something more “Catholic” doesn’t negate the broadest understanding of the word.
 
Given the level of bigotry and even violence gay people so often receive from self-identified “Christians,” it’s no mystery why so many of us are hesitant to “out” ourselves by using that word.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
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phil19034:
Nope… I was born in the year 1977 & grew up in rural Delaware. Today, I live in the Philadelphia suburbs.
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Then I don’t understand why you’re so confused.
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How about reading what I am saying instead of attacking it.

I said multiple times: "For far too many people, the word ‘gay’ means a whole lot of different things. "

And you have been ignoring the fact that I’ve said multiple times that there are men & women who you would call “gay” who refused to be called that because they want live chaste lives.

So are you saying a person who is only attracted to members of the same sex is “gay” even when they say they are not? Are you saying that they are simply in denial or delusional? Or perhaps they are simply using the word a different way then you?
 
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TheAmazingGrace said:
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phil19034:
So does the word “gay” apply to chaste people with only same-sex attraction who don’t want to be part of that lifestyle or not?
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That they choose to call themselves something more “Catholic” doesn’t negate the broadest understanding of the word.
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What about the ones who are not Catholic? Why can’t you accept the fact that the word is ambiguous to some? I’m not saying who’s right and who’s wrong. I’m simply saying that in order to communicate properly, you must know what each other means, not what they say.

This is the same problem that the Eastern Orthodox have had the the Catholics for a 1000 years. They listen to the words we use, but ignore what we actually mean.
 
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phil19034 said:
So are you saying a person who is only attracted to members of the same sex is “gay” even when they say they are not? Are you saying that they are simply in denial or delusional? Or perhaps they are simply using the word a different way then you?
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If religious people of a homosexual bent don’t want to call themselves “gay” because it carries certain connotations for them, that’s fine. That doesn’t change the broadest understanding of the word, which is “attracted to members of the same sex.”
 
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catholic1seeks said:
There are good and faithful LGBT people in the church - both lay and priests. I know a very caring gay priest. But most of these people stay quiet, for various reasons, probably considering the heated church culture right now and before.

I don’t really know the answer. But we as a Church have to stop scapegoating. It’s a human thing, but we are called to be Christian.
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I hope you don’t find this offensive but are the gay priests that you know celibate or are they practicing it sexually?

If they are celibate, that must be all the more incredibly difficult for them since they are surrounded by the sex they are generally attracted to. And I understand the dilemma they are in but it really is a difficult and unique situation compared to the general predicament of the priests. Just think on why the sexual abuse cases done by homosexuals amount to 86.6%, it’s not that SSA are worse people than non-SSA, but the temptation within the priesthood is tenfold for them. If people are angry, I guess they are frustrated, want their Church purified, and want the victims and their families to get justice (these are people who want to serve the Church instead they were abused by people w/in it). People bash the Church for not doing anything but even the general population don’t really want to go after these people because it isn’t PC nor do they want to recognize the problem. How are they different from the clergy who bury their head in the sand refusing to recognize the problem? The first step to fixing something is to know and recognize what is wrong in the first place.
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amt1985 said:
As I said above, I’m paranoid of walking into a Catholic church because of how I’ve been treated and how I’ve seen other people like me treated. Now that my transition has significantly altered my appearance, I’m even more paranoid. Which isn’t to say I won’t one day work up the courage to walk through the doors anyway. I’m just not there yet.
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Are you in the West? I think a parish with a lot of Filipinos will be more accommodating towards you since prior to westernization, we had a third gender where homosexuals and transgenders were lumped together and had a high position in our society.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
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phil19034:
So are you saying a person who is only attracted to members of the same sex is “gay” even when they say they are not? Are you saying that they are simply in denial or delusional? Or perhaps they are simply using the word a different way then you?
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If religious people of a homosexual bent don’t want to call themselves “gay” because it carries certain connotations for them, that’s fine. That doesn’t change the broadest understanding of the word, which is “attracted to members of the same sex.”
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So according do you, only religious homosexuals are chaste?
 
nenabunena said:
Just think on why the sexual abuse cases done by homosexuals amount to 86.6%, it’s not that SSA are worse people than non-SSA, but the temptation within the priesthood is tenfold for them
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I don’t think one who’s trying to be celibate magically starts having sex with other men, let alone sexually assaulting them. This seems to be a deeper issue. I believe people went into the priesthood with bad intentions.

Also why single out priesthood? Any environment that’s heavily male would be an issue. The thing is if the other men don’t experience SSA it’s much less of an issue.

Kind of sad, I feel the need for male bonding, yet being in an environment that’s heavily male would be bad for me? It would be a temptation? I feel like that’s what I need the most, good male relationships, bonding among other males. I feel like I’ve lacked that, rejected by peers when younger. I’m finally growing somewhat in relationship with others. I don’t see what’s wrong with addressing legitimate social needs.
 
I was asking a specific poster what they meant because the person they were responding to thinks LGBT persons need to do things that the Church has never required of them.

Do you understand you told me what I already know and did not ask?
 
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nenabunena said:
Yes. I meant that the 86.6% of the cases were due to homosexuality, while 13.4% was heterosexuality sexual abuse cases.
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Again, straight men can rape boys too. Do you mean that 86.6% of the victims were male?
 
mrsdizzyd said:
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Thorolfr:
Since many of them probably consider their sexual orientation to be an intrinsic or essential part of who they are, the difference between this essential part being disordered and inclining them to do evil things but not the person themselves doesn’t make much sense.
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You have to consider church documents in their proper context. In Catholic theology, we are not our inclinations. This distriction is essential.
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I guess that this is one issue that I disagree with the Catholic Church about. To me, the genes that I was born with along with all the experiences I’ve had in my lifetime have shaped the different aspects of my personality into the person I am today, the fact that blue is my favorite color, that I’m somewhat introverted, that I’m gay, that I love to travel, that I’m a bibliophile, that I don’t care for most team sports, etc. etc. Even the fact that I have ADHD is a part of who I am, that I’m easily distracted and have a difficult time staying organized, or beginning tasks or finishing tasks or getting to appointments on time, etc. If all the many aspects of my personality were removed, then, in my opinion, I would become nothing more than an empty shell.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
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phil19034:
So according do you, only religious homosexuals are chaste?
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How you got that from my post, I have no idea.
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because you said:
If religious people of a homosexual bent don’t want to call themselves “gay” because it carries certain connotations for them, that’s fine. That doesn’t change the broadest understanding of the word, which is “attracted to members of the same sex.”
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When I hear “gay” I think someone attracted to the same sex.

When I hear SSA I think a Catholic who is attracted to the same sex.
 
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