Homosexuality is not a civil right

[verdigirl]

Respectfully, use of the word persecute reminds me a lot of words like hate, homophobic, and the like. I think they are misused and over used. No one has claimed any person ought to be persecuted.

What some are claiming is that the homosexual tendency, orientation, whatever the etiology is not a special class of humans that warrant special rights. That is no right to do what is wrong.

I appreciate your comments. It’s my opinion that opening up homosexuals to firing simply because of their lifestyle choice, regardless of whether is has true affect on the workplace, is akin to persecution.

It opens us up to even more evil, by potentially creating an underclass of homeless people who we will ignore because we don’t approve of their lifestyle. Then we have the “right” to let them starve because they’re gay, when all along they could have just stayed in their jobs and kept their private lives to themselves.

 

[estesbob]

Yes, because it is unjust.

And there is where we part company. I not believe that those who engage in homosexual behavior should have same protected status as does race, gender and country national origin.

 

[estesbob]

I appreciate your comments. It’s my opinion that opening up homosexuals to firing simply because of their lifestyle choice, regardless of whether is has true affect on the workplace, is akin to persecution.

It opens us up to even more evil, by potentially creating an underclass of homeless people who we will ignore because we don’t approve of their lifestyle. Then we have the “right” to let them starve because they’re gay, when all along they could have just stayed in their jobs and kept their private lives to themselves.

It is currently legal to fire somebody because of their homosexual lifestyle. And yet we don’t see this underclass of unemployed starving homosexuals you say would result in we dont pass this law

 

[verdigirl]

It is currently legal to fire somebody because of their homosexual lifestyle. And yet we don’t see this underclass of unemployed starving homosexuals you say would result in we dont pass this law

Not yet. As of now they can still move to California!

LOL!

If this legislation isn’t passed, the possibility will be greater. And then we WILL have that extra problem on our hands.

 

[verdigirl]

And there is where we part company. I not believe that those who engage in homosexual behavior should have same protected status as does race, gender and country national origin.

As Catholic Christians, we have a greater mandate to love one another. We should not hide behind the laws of this country (or lack thereof).

Again, we admonish and love the sinner, not persecute them.

 

[estesbob]

Not yet. As of now they can still move to California!

LOL!

If this legislation isn’t passed, the possibility will be greater. And then we WILL have that extra problem on our hands.

Looks to me like we’re proposing a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. In reality the only purpose of this law is to try to add legitimacy to homosexual behavior. And of course it will set up still another grievance group that can tie up an employer for years in court claiming they were discriminated against.

 

[estesbob]

As Catholic Christians, we have a greater mandate to love one another. We should not hide behind the laws of this country (or lack thereof).

Again, we admonish and love the sinner, not persecute them.

Here again you are confusing morality with legality. I can both admonish and love the sinner without providing them a job.

 

[verdigirl]

Looks to me like we’re proposing a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. In reality the only purpose of this law is to try to add legitimacy to homosexual behavior. And of course it will set up still another grievance group that can tie up an employer for years in court claiming they were discriminated against.

The thing of it is that in this country, there is religious freedom. The laws exist so that one religious expression doesn’t interfere with the boundaries of the other.

We Roman Catholics see homosexuality as disordered. We know this is truth. However, Unitarians do not. And they are protected in their religious freedom under the law. The law exists to provide balance between the different faiths, in my mind.

I don’t see this as trying to add legitimacy. If we can agree that some people have this innate disorder, then we should be able to agree that they have a right to make a living.

 

[verdigirl]

Here again you are confusing morality with legality. I can both admonish and love the sinner without providing them a job.

Sure, if they’re not qualified to do the job and if they exhibit personal characteristics that would be counterproductive.

 

[estesbob]

Sure, if they’re not qualified to do the job and if they exhibit personal characteristics that would be counterproductive.

And as an employer I have shouldhave the sole right to determine whether a perosn is qualified and whether they exhibit personal characteristics that I believe are counterproductive. I don’t need the government trying to decide it for me.

 

[verdigirl]

And as an employer I have shouldhave the sole right to determine whether a perosn is qualified and whether they exhibit personal characteristics that I believe are counterproductive. I don’t need the government trying to decide it for me.

I don’t disagree. I just don’t think you should have the right to arbitrarily fire someone for being gay when it isn’t an issue to your workplace or clientele.

You are my brother, and I thank you for the discussion!

 

[mlchance]

Methinks you want an ideal, IYO, society that just firs anyone who might be homosexual and then they would all be on the streets homeless.

Wow. Opposing ENDA is the same thing as wanting all homosexual persons to be homeless? That’s one heck of leap in “logic”.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[sosayi1960]

And as an employer I have shouldhave the sole right to determine whether a perosn is qualified and whether they exhibit personal characteristics that I believe are counterproductive. I don’t need the government trying to decide it for me.

I certainly hope that a fetus is aborted because it has a “Gay Gene”.
I’m sure you’ll all agree, that this takes care of any problems.

 

[Bennie_P]

Will you feed them when they go homeless on the street because they were fired?

That is the point, no one is targeting gays to be fired. You presenting a problem that is not happening. I have been in the postion to hire others. I have hired gays, I have promoted gays and I have fired gays. The decision in all cases had nothing to do with their sexual orientation. Like I said we don’t laws for a problem that doesn’t really exist. Making sexual orientation a suspect class though will prevent situations were sexual oreintation does matter if one gets the job or not. If I owned a Christian book store I should be able to hire and fire others based on that they at least attempt to live by the teachings of the Church and no law should tie my hands in doing so. Though If I find myself in the situation where an employee in such a situation came to me and told me they struggling SSA and they wished to seek help for it, I probaly would support them in their efforts to get help and not let them go.

Love is not blind acceptance, love challenges growth.

 

[verdigirl]

Wow. Opposing ENDA is the same thing as wanting all homosexual persons to be homeless? That’s one heck of leap in “logic”.

– Mark L. Chance.

Here’s the thing.

We all agree that homosexuality is disordered, right?

Regardless, there is already a precedent for discrimination against homosexuals. It’s called Nazi Germany.

I **do not say **that those who do are opposed to giving homosexuals protected status are the same as Nazis.

However, what is there to say that there aren’t Catholics among us that would simply be so horrified to find out that a long-time, loyal and productive employee is a CELIBATE CATHOLIC HOMOSEXUAL?

What protection would that employee have if the employer suspects this employee is out on the prowl, when in fact he/she is not? What recourse would this employee have?

If you can give me solid proof that this would never happen, then I’ll stand with you.

Until then, we cannot be satisfied if even one person will be persecuted.

 

[estesbob]

I certainly hope that a fetus is aborted because it has a “Gay Gene”.
I’m sure you’ll all agree, that this takes care of any problems.

Say what?

 

[verdigirl]

That is the point, no one is targeting gays to be fired. You presenting a problem that is not happening. I have been in the postion to hire others. I have hired gays, I have promoted gays and I have fired gays. The decision in all cases had nothing to do with their sexual orientation. Like I said we don’t laws for a problem that doesn’t exist. Making sexual orientationa suspect class though will prevent situations were sexual oreintation does matter if one gets the job or not. If I owned a Christian book store I should be able to hire and fire others that at least attempt to live by the teachings of the Church and no law should tie my hands in doing so. Though If I find myself in the situation where an employee i such a situation came to me and told me they struggling SSA and they wished to seek help for it, I probaly would support them in their efforts to get help and not let them go.

Love is not blind acceptance, love challenges growth.

Bennie, either way, I salute you for your sense of fairness. You are a model for Christian employers.

What about celibate homosexuals, though?

 

[estesbob]

Here’s the thing.

We all agree that homosexuality is disordered, right?

Regardless, there is already a precedent for discrimination against homosexuals. It’s called Nazi Germany.

I **do not say **that those who do are opposed to giving homosexuals protected status are the same as Nazis.

However, what is there to say that there aren’t Catholics among us that would simply be so horrified to find out that a long-time, loyal and productive employee is a CELIBATE CATHOLIC HOMOSEXUAL?

What protection would that employee have if the employer suspects this employee is out on the prowl, when in fact he/she is not? What recourse would this employee have?

If you can give me solid proof that this would never happen, then I’ll stand with you.

Until then, we cannot be satisfied if even one person will be persecuted.

So if we dont give homosexual behavior the same status as race, gender and country of national origin we are Nazis?

I dont think I owe you or anyone else an explantion on why i hire or fire people. frankly its none of your business.

 

[estesbob]

Wow. Opposing ENDA is the same thing as wanting all homosexual persons to be homeless? That’s one heck of leap in “logic”.

– Mark L. Chance.

Also makes us pro-abortion and Nazis- who’d a thunk it!

 

[verdigirl]

So if we dont give homosexual behavior the same status as race, gender and country of national origin we are Nazis?

I dont think I owe you or anyone else an explantion on why i hire or fire people. frankly its none of your business.

Bob, if you will read carefully, I said that I do not say that they are Nazis.

I even bolded it to be clear.

Would you be so kind as to re-read my post?