Homosexuality

  • Thread starter Thread starter Batgirl1415
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Tlaloc:
I’d say that the data is inconclusive on how much influence genes play. it may be pretty small certainly.

Depends on what you mean. Could you freely choose to be attraced to your sex? Probably not if you have no inclinations that way already. Many homosexuals are the same. They can’t just choose to be straight. They have to choose between being who they are and repressing it.
And you base this on?

Replace the word homosexual with any other compulsion and we all start laughing. Yes I have a strong attraction to someone else’s money and just can’t keep from stealing from them…

I do not think people make a conscious choice to be attracted to the same sex anymore I think people make a conscious choice to be an addict. But it becomes a vicious circle. They are initially rewarded for the behavior and then continue on despite the potential consequences.

Lisa N
 
40.png
Tlaloc:
The point being? There are a great many factors that can affect the distribution of a disease depending in part on it’s vector. No matter what vector it is there can be disproportionate representations of a certain population. Again: it’s unfortunate but it happens.?
No it is not the same. That there is a genetic incidence of sickle cell anemia in a population is NOT the same thing as another population choosing to engage in risky behavior that results in the spread of the disease. Totally different.
40.png
Tlaloc:
Lisa, honestly I craft the argument to suit the audience. When you make ridiculous aspersions I feel free to do the same. See below where you make blanket statements without support.

I haven’t seen any data toward that end. Do you have some?

And you’ve done extensive research on the subject right?
I don’t need to do research as it’s been done by people with far more qualification than either of us. You simply want to justify engaging in behavior that the majority of the population considers abnormal and the medical population considers risky.

As to blanket statements, I’m afraid you are guilty of the same.

Will you answer the question? What benefits are there from sodomy other than a sexual gratification? You are qualified to respond correct?

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
OK Tlaloc please enlighten us on all of the benefits of sodomy ASIDE from some sort of sexual gratification.
It can be part of an intimate loving relationship. Just like any other form of sex.
Normal sexual relations can create life. Quite an honor bestowed upon us humans isn’t it? To be co-creators with God.
Any life form can reproduce, Lisa, not just Humans.
Further since human bodies are designed for male/female sex, there is not the likely damage to the tissues. It is more difficult to spread AIDS through normal male/female sex.
Oral sex is even better by both of those criteria.
Although true there are heterosexually spread STDs again I am not an advocate of promiscuity. While you might think the religious prohibitions against total sexual hedonism are some quaint relic of another age, the reality is that they affirm life, promote health and healthy behavior. Sodomy does not.
Only when you use your limited definition of the purpose of sex. To everyone else sodomy is simply another one of the many forms of human sexuality.
BTW the documentation on the promiscuity in the homosexual community is extensive and has been reported on this list numerous times. If you’ve not run into it I’d be surprised. Please check similar threads. If you cannot find the info I’ll dig it up
I’ve never run into real studies. Lots of statements to the effect but never actually backed up. Kind of like how people state that kids raised by gays are worse off but the data says the opposite.

Looking for data I find two main opposing sets. Kinsey reports that homosexual males (not females) show much greater promiscuity. Meanwhile Masters and Johnson reports that promiscuity is along gender lines and not significantly affected by orientation.
 
40.png
Brad:
I don’t ignore anything. I deem whether it is credible or not. What data are you referring to?
The various twin studies as above that show a clear genetic component to homosexuality.
Speaking of ignoring reality, did you know that 2 people of the same sex cannot make a baby and that 2 people of the opposite sex were specifically designed to do so? In fact, if they could not make a baby together, their bodies would make little sense at all.
Neat! Did you know that naturally we don’t wear clothes, don’t have jobs, and are polyamorous? Are you sure you want to restrict human behavior to what we did before becoming sentient? You’d have to throw your bible out for one thing…
I don’t think God created bodies to be amusement parks for the mind.
And I don’t think God created the body at all, the question is if either of us is going to force our opinion on others. I’m fine with letting you have whatever beliefs you want. What about you champ? Game for a little tolerance?
 
As someone who was not raised Catholic, I never understood why there were people who thought there was something wrong with being homosexual. I had gay friends, and in my view they were just ordinary people who sought love with members of the same sex. I had heard that the Bible mentioned something about homosexuality being wrong, but I was sure that either the Bible was being misinterpreted or it was clouded by the beliefs of the people who wrote it - I had also heard it said some pretty sexist things about women.

In our society today, a person with no faith has little hope of understanding why homosexuality is wrong. They hear people who compare rights of blacks to rights of homosexuals and wonder how anyone could deny equal rights to a person with an inborn same-sex orientation.

The Church’s teaching on homosexuality was BY FAR the most difficult teaching for me to deal with. I went to Mass weekly and started an RCIA program in college, and I thought seriously about dropping out of the program for this very issue. I walked out of a daily Mass because I was crying after a priest talked about the sin of homosexuality, and I cried through an entire Mass at a retreat when another priest did the same. I prayed that they would understand someday that homosexuality is not a sin. I thought they were mistaken.

I didn’t want to think that my friends were doing something that harmed them. Even worse, I didn’t know how to help them if they were.

The priest at my college is an excellent man. He called me on the phone the same day I walked out of daily Mass and offered to talk with me about the issue. We spent several hours talking over every problem I had with Church teaching. He didn’t try to talk me into believing, mostly he just listened and answered my questions. I was surrounded by this priest and others in the Catholic community, and I saw that they were not bigots who had never met a homosexual. They were the kindest, most compassionate people I had ever known. They spoke plainly about their problems with same-sex marriage. I began to listen after that priest listened to me.

I went to a forum titled “Homosexuality and the Catholic Church” where a Catholic man with same-sex attraction spoke about the homosexual life he once led. His testimony was eye opening. I began to see the connection between the fact that all sexual acts outside of marriage are sins and the importance of the definition of marriage as a union between one man and one woman. It was also important for me to see that the Catholic Church did not deny access to people with same-sex attractions - it merely called them to live chastely, as it called all of its members to live chastely.

It is much harder for me to understand that homosexual acts are a sin than it was to ignore this harsh reality. My best friend from high school recently told me that she has decided to be gay, even though she thinks it might be, in her definition, a “phase.” Even now she says she is confused about her sexuality, although she goes to the gay club every weekend, has had a serious girlfriend and has dated a lot of other girls. I have seen some of the causes of her growing same-sex attraction - her father’s inappropriate behavior, her parents’ impending divorce, her flawed romantic relationships with men and encouragement from her peers to be gay.

I know flat-out telling her that what she is doing is wrong, will not get me anywhere. She has no foundation with which to understand me. Even I, as a person of strong faith, struggled with the issue for a long time. She has more reasons than I did to discount the Truth. Instead I try to find more subtle ways of encouraging her to not date for awhile now that she and her girlfriend have broken up, hoping that some time away from the lifestyle will provide her with clarity and working from there.

A religious brother at our school always says we have to, “Meet people where they’re at.” I think this is such wise advice. My friend is not where she is ready to understand everything, so I work with what I have. Many more of my friends who are not homosexual are not ready either. That’s where I was less than a year ago.

One of the main problems, I think is that so few people know that sex should be reserved for marriage and the unique bond formed between one man and one woman in marriage. Without understanding those two things first, I would never have understood the Catholic teaching on homosexuality. Even before that, I had to start listening, and my listening did not begin until our college priest singled me out and listened to me. It was his care and compassion that opened my ears.

If you talk with your friends about these issues with care and compassion, as I’m sure you are, you are making a difference even if you cannot see it. Continue to have patience, pray to God for their understanding of the Truth and let God do the rest.

God bless.
 
Lisa N:
Replace the word homosexual with any other compulsion and we all start laughing.
Lisa do you know what “compulsive” means? Hint: If so then you wouldn’t be laughing…
I do not think people make a conscious choice to be attracted to the same sex anymore I think people make a conscious choice to be an addict. But it becomes a vicious circle. They are initially rewarded for the behavior and then continue on despite the potential consequences.
Please don’t launch another tirade about how there’s nothing but problems for homosexuals. Society accepts drinking as long as it doesn’t become an addictive behavior. Society tolerates gambling so long as it doesn’t become an addictive behavior. Your choice of consensual sexual activity should be treated exactly the same.
 
Lisa N:
No it is not the same. That there is a genetic incidence of sickle cell anemia in a population is NOT the same thing as another population choosing to engage in risky behavior that results in the spread of the disease. Totally different.
Sure. Sure. Wait…uh…no, actually.
I don’t need to do research as it’s been done by people with far more qualification than either of us.
And you’ve refrained from providing even a shred of it.
You simply want to justify engaging in behavior that the majority of the population considers abnormal and the medical population considers risky.
Yeah I’m wierd that way when it comes to prejudice.
As to blanket statements, I’m afraid you are guilty of the same.
By all means call me on them then.
Will you answer the question? What benefits are there from sodomy other than a sexual gratification? You are qualified to respond correct?
Depends on what you mean by “qualified” but I have answered it at least three or four times among different thread and you never acknoweldge it.
 
I agree that the behavior is wrong and statistics can be manipulated. But there is one study that fails on a certain point. It suggests that homosexuals are more likely to commit suicide. Could this be that some in their selfrighteousness make it impossible to discuss what is felt inside? This repression is not any more healthy than acting on the feelings. Why can we not cultivate a society where one is free to admit attractions of whatever kind and use that as key to preventing the behavior? It surely satisfies the “hate the sin, Love the sinner” concept.
 
40.png
Tlaloc:
It really isn’t a good source Lisa. They make some pretty obvious logic faults. Not the least of which is simply not understanding that multiple genes can easily play a role in complex human behaviors. They approach the subject with a minimal understanding of genetics and proceed to cast aspersions on the works of professionals.

It’s no different than the people who claim we couldn’t have landed on the moon. Their ignorance counts much more for them than scientific evidence.
Logical faults? Ha, Tlaloc you’re the deity of logical faults with all the inductive and causal fallacies littering your posts. Your use of neologisms, dogmatic assertions, vague generalizations, and general conjecture in support of homosexual issues have readers very aware of any possible hidden agenda which you might be foisting.
 
40.png
Tlaloc:
It can be part of an intimate loving relationship. Just like any other form of sex.
A component is not the same as a benefit. Sorry, answer gonged. A sexual component could also be a part of a loving relationship with my dog although I really don’t think it quite equates with my relationship with my husband.
40.png
Tlaloc:
Any life form can reproduce, Lisa, not just Humans.
No, only humans can create other humans. I think that is rather special but YMMV.
40.png
Tlaloc:
Oral sex is even better by both of those criteria.
Sorry it fails in the ‘using body parts properly’ test. The purpose of sexual activity is not simply to avoid disease. Celibacy would therefore be the highest form otherwise.

BTW well known homeless activist Michael Stoops was brought down after he gave gonorrhea of the throat to a large number of homeless boys who traded sexual favors for a roof over their head. So don’t fool yourself Tlaloc, you can spread the very same diseases with oral sex.
40.png
Tlaloc:
Only when you use your limited definition of the purpose of sex. To everyone else sodomy is simply another one of the many forms of human sexuality.
Everyone else? Oh PUH-LEASE. Do you honestly think that the majority of people think sodomy is just 'another form of sexuality"? Even those not bound by religious teachings are well aware of the potential for detrimental health problems due to this practice. Trust me on this one Tlaloc, I work in the medical field and there is a whole GI practice built around problems resulting from sodomy. Too graphic for this list so you can use your imagination.
40.png
Tlaloc:
I’ve never run into real studies. Lots of statements to the effect but never actually backed up. Kind of like how people state that kids raised by gays are worse off but the data says the opposite.

Looking for data I find two main opposing sets. Kinsey reports that homosexual males (not females) show much greater promiscuity. Meanwhile Masters and Johnson reports that promiscuity is along gender lines and not significantly affected by orientation.
That data on the children raised by homosexuals is compromised by faulty methods, self selection and a lack of sufficient numbers to study. Kinsey and M&J are not exactly up to date studies and given Kinsey used convicts and perverts for his subjects I think even homosexual apologists don’t accept his findings. I do agree that males are far more inclined to promiscuity than females. It would be intuitive that male sexual relationships would be far more likely to be promiscuous.

Just curious Tlaloc have you read “And the Band Played On?” by the late Randy Shilts…he died of AIDS too. But as one of the first to document how AIDS spread he was among the first to call for a bit of self control amongst the homosexual community. Further the guy who wrote Telltale Heart…don’t remember his name says that it was the wild behavior amongst urban homosexuals that created the AIDS epidemic. There is plenty of evidence that promiscuity and anonymous sex is a characteristic of male homoesexuals.

Lisa N
 
40.png
Tlaloc:
The various twin studies as above that show a clear genetic component to homosexuality.
I’ll take a look but I believe LisaN has already refuted them successfully and I trust her judgement. We’ve been down this road before.
40.png
Tlaloc:
Neat! Did you know that naturally we don’t wear clothes, don’t have jobs, and are polyamorous? Are you sure you want to restrict human behavior to what we did before becoming sentient? You’d have to throw your bible out for one thing…
Wearing clothes, having jobs etc. are done because the protect us and help us live longer and healthier lives - thus able to advance the species. Similarly, reproductive intercourse enables the species to continue. Homosexual sex has no benefit.

You seem to be implying that homosexual sex is an advancement in the culture, like the discovery of earning money in a capitalistic system or wearing clothes to protect ourselves. You’d be hard pressed to find any science that could show that homosexual sex is an advancement for the species.

You should understand these facts as I presume you are a believer in naturalistic, random-selection evolution by your next statement.
40.png
Tlaloc:
And I don’t think God created the body at all, the question is if either of us is going to force our opinion on others. I’m fine with letting you have whatever beliefs you want. What about you champ? Game for a little tolerance?
So you think our bodies came from nothing? We started with nothing, zilch,zip. And then evolution happened with no cause. And then our bodies were created. Makes perfect sense.

Tolerance? I’m as tolerant as they come until people start being intolerant of my Christian/scientific/logical beliefs, like marriage is between one man and one woman and my kids should be indoctrinated into believing that homosexuality is normal. That’s my problem. All the intolerance of my beliefs.

You want to practice debauchery? Be my guest. I’m not telling anyone to stop you. I may say a few prayers but that’s it. But don’t come marching through the town promoting promiscuity, “free” sex, and abnormal relations as some kind of normal thing to the rest of the free world. Don’t force your way into Catholic Churches and schools and require the teachers to say it’s normal. Don’t try to come up with hate speech laws against reading the Bible.

If you believe in your convictions, live them. Don’t force them on me through the legal system.
 
40.png
goofyjim:
I agree that the behavior is wrong and statistics can be manipulated. But there is one study that fails on a certain point. It suggests that homosexuals are more likely to commit suicide. Could this be that some in their selfrighteousness make it impossible to discuss what is felt inside? This repression is not any more healthy than acting on the feelings. Why can we not cultivate a society where one is free to admit attractions of whatever kind and use that as key to preventing the behavior? It surely satisfies the “hate the sin, Love the sinner” concept.
Because cultivating a society based on license, relativity, and lies ultimately destroys the society.

The high sucide rate is largely related to the fact that homosexuals are trying to satisfy their longings by by doing something that is against their nature. As a result, it does not satisfy them. When it fails to satisfy, the get depressed. Multiple iterations of this process lead some to ultimate depression to where they think of killing themselves.

A society that loves the sinner helps the sinner to see that they can solve their longings and their depression but it is through a different way than the one they are pursuing.
 
**Notice:

This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.

General Reminder:

Please remember that these are public forums. Only those 13 years old and older may become members, but anyone may read the threads. Assume that you are speaking within ear- and eyeshot of children and keep the conversation appropriate for young ears and eyes. Thanks!**
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top