Honduras immigrants

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John24 said:
That would make sense if every crime in the country was committed by an undocumented person but that doesn’t seem likely to me. Do you think it is likely that every crime committed in the United States is committed by an undocumented person?
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Here’s the counterargument, once and for all:

It is true, crimes are committed by people who are here legally.

But the particular crimes committed by illegal aliens would not have been committed if the laws had been enforced and they were not in this country.

Anyone heard of Kate Steinle? Sarah Root? Mollie Tibbetts? Matthew Denice?

They wouldn’t have been killed if the perpetrators who had no right to be here had not been here.

Matthew Denice would not have been dragged to death by a truck if the driver who had no right to be in this country, no right to operate a motor vehicle, even less right to get health care assistance, never bothered to learn English (in nine years in this country), and didn’t even stop the truck when he knew he was dragging someone, hadn’t been in this country.
 
empacae said:
Yes yes yes. I know this is all crazy talk… but who is feeding and supplying water, medicine to these people on their 30 day march? Who is paying for the fuel? It looks like Venezuela is funding this, and China is bankrolling Venezuela.
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I think you accurately characterized your post.
signit said:
Here’s the counterargument, once and for all:

It is true, crimes are committed by people who are here legally.

But the particular crimes committed by illegal aliens would not have been committed if the laws had been enforced and they were not in this country.
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Not much of a counterargument, and one with implications you probably don’t want to get too close to.
 
Of course it is true and everyone knows it. Only a small, stubborn minority tries to deny it. The impact of immigration is something that the fake news can’t hide. People see the truth with their own eyes everyday.
 
signit said:
Why not?

It’s true, isn’t it?
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I think it’s pretty obvious what the implications of arguing that certain groups of people are dangerous criminals that need to be removed from society are. What you said is true in the same way it’s true that if Jewish people had been eliminated from German society earlier some crimes committed by Jewish people could have been prevented.
 
John24 said:
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signit:
Why not?

It’s true, isn’t it?
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I think it’s pretty obvious what the implications of arguing that certain groups of people are dangerous criminals that need to be removed from society are. What you said is true in the same way it’s true that if Jewish people had been eliminated from German society earlier some crimes committed by Jewish people could have been prevented.
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These are two different things.

If I said, "Hispanics (or Latinos, etc.) are dangerous criminals, and they should be eliminated from our society, . . . " of course that would be wrong. I don’t support that, or even think it.

However, illegal aliens are different because they chose to come here illegally. They put themselves in that class by their own conduct. It’s not like discriminating against Hispanics, black Americans, Jews, etc.

It’s like saying, “We have a right to put people who are violent criminals in prison, because we believe that they’re a risk to commit more violent crimes, and because they chose to put themselves in the class of violent criminals.”
 
signit said:
These are two different things.
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And one is the precursor of the other.

I wonder how people here feel about all the undocumented Jewish immigrants fleeing Nazi Germany that illegally entered this country.
 
John24 said:
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signit:
These are two different things.
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And one is the precursor of the other.

I wonder how people here feel about all the undocumented Jewish immigrants fleeing Nazi Germany that illegally entered this country.
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Well, easy.

These people would be analogous to refugees or asylum seekers today.

We all support both of those categories.

Big difference between people coming to the U.S. running for their lives, which we obviously support, and people jumping the border just to take our jobs or our freebies, which I don’t.
 
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Refugees and asylum seekers apply for it. Asylum was granted to some Jews. Many came in though with false papers or on boats from Cuba. Those are just regular ol’ illegals, right?

And it’s interesting to me that Jews somehow had valid fears of violence in their home country but people fleeing one of the most violent countries on the planet don’t.
 
Regardless of the circumstances the US simply can’t let everyone in. We have to turn away some people. And everyone is fine with that. I mean there are plenty of homeless people or people in bad living situations and the people advocating for letting in everyone who wants to come to the US don’t personally open their home even for our local people in need let alone the foreigners.
 
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exnihilo said:
I mean there are plenty of homeless people or people in bad living situations and the people advocating for letting in everyone who wants to come to the US don’t personally open their home even for our local people in need let alone the foreigners.
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The “you can’t be opposed to abortion if you don’t adopt children” argument. I love the classics.
 
Those aren’t the same at all. The parent of a child has an obligation to bear and raise the kid. The immigrant doesn’t have a right to be here. In abortion there is a positive act of murder which is wrong.
In denying an immigrant entry you are committing no wrong.
 
You have committed wrong if you deny asylum to someone fleeing violence and send them home to be murdered. That’s just handing the dirty work off to someone else.
 
Not at all. In some circumstances you should take people in, but you not taking them in isn’t the same as you murdering them.
 
In the past, for all of the refugees coming from Africa, Syria and so on, there was a millionaire that said he might buy an island for all of the refugees to live on.

Really, something needs to be considered. If you actually follow how many in the world are refugees, it can add up to 60,000,000.

Key facts about the world’s refugees​

By Phillip Connor and Jens Manuel Krogstad

With the number of displaced people in the world at more than 60 million in 2015 – a total that counts both those living inside and outside of their home countries – the plight of refugees has gained new prominence as countries, including the U.S., have taken in displaced people.
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I actually wanted to say 70 million and it may be up to that nowadays, these figures are from 2015.
 
Victoria33 said:
Really, something needs to be considered. If you actually follow how many in the world are refugees, it can add up to 60,000,000.
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We already have the most generous policies in the world.

But, clearly, we can’t take in 60,000,000 more, and house, clothe, and feed them. We have to draw a line somewhere.
 
John24 said:
And it’s interesting to me that Jews somehow had valid fears of violence in their home country but people fleeing one of the most violent countries on the planet don’t.
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The Jews were being systematically tortured to death and exterminated in their homelands. They fled to many countries, the U.S. being one of them. The Americans provided avenues to bring these Jews fleeing extermination to our country. Many of them then went on to become interrogators for the Allies, most notably through Camp Ritchie, where they learned interrogation methods and were sent back to POW camps in Europe and helped the Allies win WWII with the information they gleaned from the German POWs.

There is absolutely NO comparison between mobs of illegal immigrants demanding entry to the US and Jews fleeing for their lives with the help of the Allies.
 
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