O
- Status
M
mytruepower2
Guest
I personally think that Latin is a beautiful language, and if the Magisterium teaches that it must be used in the Holy Mass, then that’s the end of it.
However, if the Pope and the Magisterium do not teach that it must be used it Holy Mass, then it’s up to the discretion of the individual priest to make these decisions based on the case in question.
Reverence for the Holy Mass is the important thing. If a Holy Mass is said reverently, it will strengthen the faith of those who attend. If it is said casually or carelessly, many will come to view God in a casual and flippant light. I should know. That happened to me for much too long a time.
In this particular situation, however, it sounds like one woman has overreacted to what she perceived as a slight in some manner, and that sort of overreaction should not be encouraged. Too often, accommodation within the church extends to the parishioners, without considering the will of God, who is, in the end, the one we should really be thinking about at the Holy Mass. Pray for the strength of your priests and deacons, that they will know when God is asking them to accommodate others, and when they must stand firm, by taking up their cross of faithfulness against persecutors.
However, if the Pope and the Magisterium do not teach that it must be used it Holy Mass, then it’s up to the discretion of the individual priest to make these decisions based on the case in question.
Reverence for the Holy Mass is the important thing. If a Holy Mass is said reverently, it will strengthen the faith of those who attend. If it is said casually or carelessly, many will come to view God in a casual and flippant light. I should know. That happened to me for much too long a time.
In this particular situation, however, it sounds like one woman has overreacted to what she perceived as a slight in some manner, and that sort of overreaction should not be encouraged. Too often, accommodation within the church extends to the parishioners, without considering the will of God, who is, in the end, the one we should really be thinking about at the Holy Mass. Pray for the strength of your priests and deacons, that they will know when God is asking them to accommodate others, and when they must stand firm, by taking up their cross of faithfulness against persecutors.
C
CradleCath
Guest
[/quote]
Absolutely!!
A
Annabelle_Marie
Guest
P
ProVobis
Guest
This is true. However, keep in mind we don’t have youtube videos of Christ, nor any facebook pictures or digital sound tracks of Him either. We can only go with what the Church has given us from the early days and language of the Church then. We start proverbial dubbing of that language with other languages and we will quickly lose that link to Christ. This can easily be proven in mathematical terms. This is not to undermine the well-intentions of the priest but we as laity need to help the Church preserve whatever links to Christ we can.
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
Our link to Christ is faith, not language.
L
Layman
Guest
And how is faith transmitted across time and space? Via language and symbol and rite.
Let’s see, let’s see:
Roman Catholic Church;
Latin Mass;
Gregorian chant;
A 1000 years of tradition;
Faith of our fathers;
…
…
Hmmm, I know!
Let’s have a New Mass in English!
Let’s see, let’s see:
Roman Catholic Church;
Latin Mass;
Gregorian chant;
A 1000 years of tradition;
Faith of our fathers;
…
…
Hmmm, I know!
Let’s have a New Mass in English!
P
ProVobis
Guest
I think they then called it the Church of Henry VIII.
Yes, I know it was actually the Mass of Archbishop Cranmer.
F
Flame4
Guest
I would love to see a “latin mass” especially because I think its a beautiful language and I would like to learn it. I wouldn’t go to it all the time though (or maybe I would once I have experienced one.)
Maybe parishes should offer both if possible? That would be nice but maybe too much work. I have nothing against mass being said in latin or any other language, however I think different languages should be used at the appropriate time.
My parish encorporates a few latin hymns though.
Maybe parishes should offer both if possible? That would be nice but maybe too much work. I have nothing against mass being said in latin or any other language, however I think different languages should be used at the appropriate time.
My parish encorporates a few latin hymns though.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Probably not as much work as translating and retranslating the Latin.
Thanks for your support, though.
J
James224
Guest
I’ve attended the Latin Mass for about 17 years half the time. I go to my own Ordinary Rite Parish half the time but love the Latin Mass. It takes a little time to learn how to follow it in the Missal but it’s worth the effort. You begin to pray the Mass silently and you know what the priest is saying by what he’s doing. It’s the most beautiful thing this side of heaven as Fr Faber once said.
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
Sure, but it hasn’t been one constant language since the beginning of time. Its not even one constant language since the beginning of the Church
Or if you really believe that faithfulness to the original text is important, lets have a Byzantine Divine Liturgy in Greek! Since the New Testament was mostly written in Greek.
R
roadsend
Guest
We are not talking about the New Testament. We are talking about the Mass.
In our Latin Rite, the original text of our Mass is in Latin.
I am very tired of the hostility shown toward the official language of our Rite for the last forty five years, primarily by so many of our bishops, including my own bishop and many of the clergy.
I just want to have one Latin Mass, TLM or Novus Ordo, with Catholic music every Sunday in just one of the eight Catholic churches within a hour’s drive of my home.
I have totally had it with the banal, modernistic tripe we have been putting up with at our Masses for way too long.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Actually Scriptures were written in old Greek, old Hebrew, old Aramaic, with a lot of cross references, which, of course, increased the authenticity of St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. In other words, there apparently was a disconnect he managed to solve. Why else did he do it when the Church could have easily and logically kept it in Greek?
Why such contempt for the language of the Church? Translations couldn’t possibly hold the truth. Latin does. Even digital magnetic storage of voices, if we had them of Christ, would deteriorate over time so let’s give credit to the Church where credit is due, in regards to preserving the truth.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
I agree that our link to Christ is neither one specific language, nor a visual medium in which we can see him. As to whether our link to Christ is faith, this is true to an extent. To really be united to Christ’s way, we need to have faith that he is the son of God. If we believe this, it is impossible for him to speak lies, so when he says that he will send the Spirit of Truth to Saint Peter and the apostles, and he will “lead them to all truth,” he is telling the truth.
The Holy Spirit truly does guide the official teachings of the Catholic Church, and having faith in this is just as important as believing in Jesus’ word. We don’t have a Word that’s merely ancient or dead, or has to be continually ressurected, but one that’s already been restored to life, and continues living to this day. The church teaching on the subject is that all forms of the liturgy, in whatever language, are equally valid, and should be treated with great reverence, which is really the important element.
If we really wanted to preserve a linguistic link to Jesus, the Holy Mass would need to be said in Aramaic; not Latin, and since this hasn’t been approved by the Holy See, I would never want to do this. The important thing is for us to pay attention to the teachings passed down to us by the church itself (not neccesarily by our own local priest or bishop, I had to learn the hard way,) and to treat God in all three persons with the greatest possible reverence and respect in his holy sacraments.
This is where much confusion seems to arise among traditionalists. Unfortunately, new liturgical practices have frequently (not always) been accompanied by a casual attitude surrounding them, a desire to “be fun,” and a tendency to avoid spreading important and/or difficult teachings to the public. These are the things that really weaken Christ’s body, because they show a willingness to prioritize man before God.
Of course, even when this happens, we need to remember that no matter how badly the church may be weakened, it will be restored in glory at the ressurection. For the church’s sake, we have nothing to fear. We just need to make sure we’re in the fight alongside her.
L
Layman
Guest
You are, once again, exaggerating your opponent’s argument.
…
We could, but we’re in the Roman Catholic Church and we’re discussing Latin in the Mass, not the Bible.
L
Layman
Guest
We’re not. We’re arguing for the retention of Latin for a number of excellent reasons, one of which is transmission of our worship and faith, untainted by modernism.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Depends on how you look at it. Does a politician get elected because of people’s faith in him or in the language he uses in his campaign or how the news media spins what he says? Probably a mix of all three, I would think.
P
ProVobis
Guest
I believe there are approved Aramaic words of consecration a priest can use in the Mass he says, for those who wish to perserve that link to Jesus, though it isn’t certain whether he actually used Aramaic words. Could have been Hebrew as that was the way He worshipped Himself.
R
roadsend
Guest
Could even have been Greek, the most widely understood language of the region.
We really haven’t got a clue what language(s) Christ used at the Last Supper and as far as this thread is concerned it makes no difference. We are talking about the Latin Rite on this thread.
- Status