House passes amendment to defund Planned Parenthood, 240-185

[Rich_Olszewski]

I think most do. I’m willing to bet that it is a rare parish that doesn’t have a St. Vincent de Paul society or a Holy Name society.

Not all dioceses have the resources of the princely and deeply historical St. Louis diocese. My diocese certainly doesn’t (you can’t even tell our cathedral from an ordinary Catholic church). Our parishes are small and it seems that it’s most of the parishioners who need the help as opposed to being able to provide it. There generally aren’t enough volunteers to call on or funds to support their good works.

It doesn’t do our Church well when it’s own members question her commitment to the poor and disenfranchised.

I agree, of course, but it seems to me that the liberal Catholics are the ones least likely to complain that the Church is doing too much for the poor.

 

[ishii]

.
I agree, of course, but it seems to me that the liberal Catholics are the ones least likely to complain that the Church is doing too much for the poor.

Meaning what? Liberals care more about the poor than conservatives? Please explain.

Ishii

 

[estesbob]

Some of what your parish does would be inappropriate for a government to do.

Your parish is unique in providing such fine services. Yet, one poster this morning complained about providing daycare for children out of tax dollars.

I would guess that it depends on the spirit of charity present in a parish. Not all Catholics or Catholic parishes have the same sense of service to the poor that yours does or the means to do it, both in terms of volunteers and funds.

It is a rare Parish that does not provide these services. It could be that your parish provides them and you’re not aware of it. For instance in my parish we pool our funds with other churches in the area to provide these services via an umbrella organization.

 

[estesbob]

Not all dioceses have the resources of the princely and deeply historical St. Louis diocese. My diocese certainly doesn’t (you can’t even tell our cathedral from an ordinary Catholic church). Our parishes are small and it seems that it’s most of the parishioners who need the help as opposed to being able to provide it. There generally aren’t enough volunteers to call on or funds to support their good works.

I agree, of course, but it seems to me that the liberal Catholics are the ones least likely to complain that the Church is doing too much for the poor.

Nonsense. Study after study and my own personal experience of 30 years in preparing tax returns pshow that the more conservative a person is the more they give to charity. The truth is that liberals believe charity is the provence of the Federal Government, which of course is in direct rejection of the church’s view on subsidiarity but then there is very little about liberalism that does not reject the Church.

I have often noted that there are no liberals at tax time. The same people that rant and rave about the Bush tax cuts are indignant when you ask them if they would like to have their return prepared using the rates in effect before those cuts took place.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Meaning what? Liberals care more about the poor than conservatives?

I have no absolute measure of how much care either side has for the poor. It’s been my observation, however, that liberals are less likely than conservatives to complain that the Church is doing too much for the poor.

 

[estesbob]

I have no absolute measure of how much care either side has for the poor. It’s been my observation, however, that liberals are less likely than conservatives to complain that the Church is doing too much for the poor.

I have never in my life ever heard any Catholic complain that the Church was doing too much for the poor. Never. And I am one who is very involved in the Church attending daily mass and serving on a variety of church committees. If you are running across this in your parish either your pastor and Bishop are grossly incompetent or it is a very strange kind of Catholic you associate with

 

[ishii]

I have no absolute measure of how much care either side has for the poor. It’s been my observation, however, that liberals are less likely than conservatives to complain that the Church is doing too much for the poor.

Oh. Well, I have never heard “conservative” Catholics complain about the Church doing too much for the poor. I have heard conservatives complain that the government, in trying to help the poor actually makes their situation worse. I would be interested in just how those conservative Catholics complain about the Church doing too much for the poor. Can you give an example of what one of these conservative Catholics said to make you think this?

Ishii

 

[qui_est_ce]

I have never in my life ever heard any Catholic complain that the Church was doing too much for the poor. Never. And I am one who is very involved in the Church attending daily mass and serving on a variety of church committees. If you are running across this in your parish either your pastor and Bishop are grossly incompetent or it is a very strange kind of Catholic you associate with

This has been my experience as well.

When preparing taxes, I am moved by the many who would not deduct their charitable contribution.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Oh. Well, I have never heard “conservative” Catholics complain about the Church doing too much for the poor.

Yes, anecdotally, I don’t doubt what you have heard. It is different from what I have heard variously. Even on this thread some conservatives are quick to condemn the Catholic bishops for supporting the cause of workers in union disputes. It is sad to see such animosity towards workers by some Catholics. But yes, I am aware that union members aren’t always among the poor.

I have heard conservatives complain that the government, in trying to help the poor actually makes their situation worse.

I have heard that said, too. I think, however, that there’s not a thing the government does in its efforts to alleviate the plight of the poor that some conservatives won’t complain about.

 

[estesbob]

This has been my experience as well.

When preparing taxes, I am moved by the many who would not deduct their charitable contribution.

Me too. I am also disturbed by the number of people who dont give and ask me how much they can get away with without proving it.

I tell people who dont want to deduct it that they should decduct it and give to charity the amount it saves them on taxes.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Some of what your parish does would be inappropriate for a government to do.

Your parish is unique in providing such fine services. Yet, one poster this morning complained about providing daycare for children out of tax dollars.

I would guess that it depends on the spirit of charity present in a parish. Not all Catholics or Catholic parishes have the same sense of service to the poor that yours does or the means to do it, both in terms of volunteers and funds.

That was me, and I’ll complain about it here too.

 

[1234]

I think I see what you are syaing. The more people we can kill the less people there are to require WIC, fight in unjust wars , need medical assiastance ,need care when they are elderly. etc, etc. So is there a magic number of those you feel need ot be killed to solve all these problems? Or do we just keep killing until the problems go awaty?

I don’t see how anyone could miss my point, but you appear to have missed it. Our deficit of upteen-trillion dollars began when George Bush’s starting the Iraq war while cutting taxes, something no previous president has done. That immediately turned our previous non-existent deficit (we were actually in the black) into a massive debt incurred while pursuing two wars simultaneously which cost the American people billions of dollars *per month. * social programs (not defense)— such as Head Start, WIC, (that’s aid to women, infants and children), Pell Grants (which subsidize college education) senior centers, research for mental health and support, the huge non-abortion arm of Planned Parenthood, and many other sources of support for poor children, women and the elderly and marginalized.

I am amazed that people tend to forget the teachings of one Jesus of Nazareth, who lived in Judea in the 1st century CE, to whom are attributed the following words:

Matthew 25:31-46

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?  When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?  When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[estesbob]

I don’t see how anyone could miss my point, but you appear to have missed it. Our deficit of upteen-trillion dollars began when George Bush’s starting the Iraq war while cutting taxes, something no previous president has done. That immediately turned our previous non-existent deficit (we were actually in the black) into a massive debt incurred while pursuing two wars simultaneously which cost the American people billions of dollars *per month. * social programs

(not defense)— such as Head Start, WIC, (that’s aid to women, infants and children), Pell Grants (which subsidize college education) senior centers, research for mental health and support, the huge non-abortion arm of Planned Parenthood, and many other sources of support for poor children, women and the elderly and marginalized.

I am amazed that people tend to forget the teachings of one Jesus of Nazareth, who lived in Judea in the 1st century CE, to whom are attributed the following words:

’

I am at a loss to see where Jesus said its OK to kill children for the greater good.You appear to have adopted the Liberal extortionist line of “support my politics or these children will die”. But then I guess hatred for George Bush trumps all.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Even on this thread some conservatives are quick to condemn the Catholic bishops for supporting the cause of workers in union disputes. It is sad to see such animosity towards workers by some Catholics. But yes, I am aware that union members aren’t always among the poor.

Yes, and many conservative catholics are saddened (or sickened) to see liberals in support of abortion.

 

[ishii]

Yes, anecdotally, I don’t doubt what you have heard. It is different from what I have heard variously. Even on this thread some conservatives are quick to condemn the Catholic bishops for supporting the cause of workers in union disputes. It is sad to see such animosity towards workers by some Catholics. But yes, I am aware that union members aren’t always among the poor.:

You changed the subject. You said, “liberal Catholics are the ones least likely to complain about the Church doing too much for the poor” which means you think that conservatives are ***more likely ***to complain about the Church doing too much for the poor - a huge insult for which you have no evidence save for “anecdotally”. Is that the new standard? Insult conservatives by implying they are indifferent to the plight of the poor and have no concrete evidence? Then when pressed, you change the subject.

I have heard that said, too. I think, however, that there’s not a thing the government does in its efforts to alleviate the plight of the poor that some conservatives won’t complain about.

No, I think conservatives are primarily concerned that efforts to help the poor actually work - that is, they don’t make the situation worse like so many government programs. Also, conservatives are concerned about the government helping the poor within the limitations spelled out in the constitution. If conservatives are against doing too much for the poor, then why do they donate so much to charities?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Yes, and many conservative catholics are saddened (or sickened) to see liberals in support of abortion.

Yes, as some posters will actually admit, they will vote for pro-abortion rights Democrats because those Democrats are for federal funding for such things as summer hot lunches for children.

Ishii

 

[bbarrick8383]

Yes, as some posters will actually admit, they will vote for pro-abortion rights Democrats because those Democrats are for federal funding for such things as summer hot lunches for children.

Ishii

Don’t forget unions, we’d all be working 7 days a week 365 days a year if it weren’t for Democrats and those unions so many people work for. Gotta put that before abortion as well, way before. I’m not even sure abortions on the list of concerns up against unions.

 

[ishii]

Don’t forget unions, we’d all be working 7 days a week 365 days a year if it weren’t for Democrats and those unions so many people work for. Gotta put that before abortion as well, way before. I’m not even sure abortions on the list of concerns up against unions.

And don’t forget that the unions (especially the public sector unions) are basically an arm of the Democrat party in terms of fundraising. The unions take their members’ dues and use it to fund Democrat candidates who support abortion rights. Right, unions are for the “little guy” - just not the little guy in the womb.

Ishii

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

And don’t forget that the unions (especially the public sector unions) are basically an arm of the Democrat party in terms of fundraising. The unions take their members’ dues and use it to fund Democrat candidates who support abortion rights. Right, unions are for the “little guy” - just not the little guy in the womb.

Ishii

If you listen to union bosses like Andy Stern and Richard Trumpka, they could care less about the “little guy”. They want power, and they want it now.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

If conservatives are against doing too much for the poor, then why do they donate so much to charities?

Had you read what I wrote before jumping to conclusions, you would have seen that I wrote, “I think, however, that there’s not a thing the government does in its efforts to alleviate the plight of the poor that some conservatives won’t complain about.”

Please note: I said the government. That has nothing to do with what an individual conservative might or might not donate to charities. I also said “some.”

BTW, is this some sort of “pi**ing contest”? “I gave so much to charity last year. How much did you give, Rich?”