How a married gay Catholic couple live their faith

[SuperLuigi]

Ah the old, “but Tommy did it” argument. I always taught my kids that other peoples stupidity or mistakes are not an example of what you should do.

I appreciate that being pointed out. Progressives are using that line a lot lately.

 

[3DOCTORS]

This is a common response I hear to this argument, and I have to say, it really doesn’t make sense. You say that you are open to the “gray” areas of the faith. The problem is that this isn’t a gray area. Quite the contrary, this area has been consistently black since the Church first started. In the earliest writings of the Church fathers, and even in the NT, we see a complete rejection of the entire notion of homosexual activities. This is not a gray area, and the only reason you think it is is because you disagree with the Church on the subject. With this type of logic, any issue that a person disagrees with becomes a “gray” area, which means that there are no absolutes, which is relativistic and completely contrary to the basics of logic and reason.

Good point. If it were a grey area in official Magisterial teaching, the progressives wouldn’t be all upset about it and this thread and many others like it probably wouldn’t exist.

 

[zz912]

I suppose maybe that’s one reason that while you profess to be Roman Catholic, I profess to be non practicing. I’m more open to gray areas in matters of faith. Some of us are. Some prefer things in black and white. It’s just how we are I suppose.

I disagree and reject your absolute pronouncement that this matter is a gray area.

 

[zz912]

Well that is not exactly how I would put it. I’d probably say something more along the lines that those churches not in communion with Rome and which allow for greater diversity, do so because they allow for greater use of individual reason along a believer’s faith walk. And perhaps their understanding is that their path to the ultimate truth is a lifelong journey. That a finite human being’s understanding of an infinite being, God, is limited. But there always remains potential for human understanding to grow and evolve on matters of faith and morals along their way to seeking that one ultimate truth. Whatever it ultimately turns out to be. And in the meantime as they walk together in faith but not by sight, respecting and celebrating the differences in their church families when they come together in that faith to worship the one God.

Walking towards what?
Journeying towards what?

The underlying assumption to your argument here is that they are imperfect/wrong, and are moving towards what is right/true/perfect. But you don’t like actually admitting their current state is wrong/imperfect. That’s not how that works. If they are on a faith journey as you believe, then by implicit admission you acknowledge their behavior as wrong.

 

[zz912]

No it’s not relativist as I believe there is one ultimate truth we seek. And if in faith He comes again, then we will know for sure. But sure, in the meantime, we can believe we know. I also believe what we believe we understand about God can evolve.

In this ultimate truth you claim exists, is homosexual behavior right or wrong?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… some of the comments attributed to Fr Ron were made in private to his nephew and partner who chose to publicise it.

. . . presumably to show up how neurotic the priest is.

Sy Noe, have you challenged the parish(es) near you to keep you company, teach you to visit the lonely in pairs, intercede, and trust God on a bad day? I want to know if they are stepping up to the plate.

 

[clem456]

…
Number of gay priests in this area? I am taking a guess here, but I would say at least 50%. Now, I am not as familiar with ‘imported’ priests, those coming in from Asia and Africa to help with shortages, so that may change the numbers. But those who are predominately Anglo, Spanish, or from the Philippines, work in parishes and/or schools, yes, 50% at least. Of that group, I don’t know how many are active sexually.

Thanks for your guess.
Can you put some substance on your supposition?
And wow!
I didn’t know we were importing priests! Just like cars and tv’s and xbox. Imported priests!
What a world we live in!

So how about it…substance?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Thanks for your guess.
Can you put some substance on your supposition?
And wow!
I didn’t know we were importing priests! Just like cars and tv’s and xbox. Imported priests!
What a world we live in!

So how about it…substance?

Well, that’s what guesses are - guesses. They come from my experience of working with/socializing with clergy in mostly the California area.

And yes, importing priests. Doesn’t your diocese do that? The US imports nurses too, to help out with shortages. But here is one article that looks at the global distribution of priests and the trend towards importing from Asia and Africa. The study comes from CARA.

washingtonexaminer.com/catholic-church-running-out-of-priests-importing-from-africa-asia/article/2565511

 

[clem456]

Well, that’s what guesses are - guesses. They come from my experience of working with/socializing with clergy in mostly the California area.

And yes, importing priests. Doesn’t your diocese do that? The US imports nurses too, to help out with shortages. But here is one article that looks at the global distribution of priests and the trend towards importing from Asia and Africa. The study comes from CARA.

washingtonexaminer.com/catholic-church-running-out-of-priests-importing-from-africa-asia/article/2565511

Wow. Amazing that 50% of the priests you socialize with are gay. Do you attend the diocesan clergy retreats? It’s just amazing you have that kind of face time with Catholic clergy, that you would know their sexual preferences and all.
amazing…Quite a blessing for you I’m sure.

Imported priests? We’ ve had priests from other cultures here if that’s what you mean. We just never called priests “imports”.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Wow. Amazing that 50% of the priests you socialize with are gay. Do you attend the diocesan clergy retreats? It’s just amazing you have that kind of face time with Catholic clergy, that you would know their sexual preferences and all.
amazing…Quite a blessing for you I’m sure.

Imported priests? We’ ve had priests from other cultures here if that’s what you mean. We just never called priests “imports”.

I live in California. Many people are gay. Many priests are gay - diocesan as well as those from Orders. Most of the ones I know are out. Why is this ‘amazing’ to you?

 

[SAVINGRACE]

My objection to the priest is not him attending this pseudo marriage but his promotion and his wish that he could have performed a ceremony at his church.:tsktsk:

:sad_yes:

 

[clem456]

I live in California. Many people are gay. Many priests are gay - diocesan as well as those from Orders. Most of the ones I know are out. Why is this ‘amazing’ to you?

What’s amazing is that you claim 50% of priests in you environs are gay with no support whatsoever.
First of all, if you haven’t had personal knowledge of their sexual practice, you have no business making your guess, and you owe an apology.

Should we go on to point number two or would you like to address point number one with some substance first?

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I live in California. Many people are gay. Many priests are gay - diocesan as well as those from Orders. Most of the ones I know are out. Why is this ‘amazing’ to you?

Are you talking about Anglican priests from your church? This thread is about Catholic priests.

If you are referring to Catholic priests, please forward the link of the survey which shows that 50% are homosexual.

Otherwise your uneducated guess is not based on any real evidence or research and therefore not a fact.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Don’t jump all over ComplineSanFran please - s/he was responding to a request I made a page or two back. I only asked for a guesstimate from his/her point of view, so it was never meant to be that precise.

 

[clem456]

Don’t jump all over ComplineSanFran please - s/he was responding to a request I made a page or two back. I only asked for a guesstimate from his/her point of view, so it was never meant to be that precise.

Oh of course it wasn’t meant to be precise.
Let’s just guess. Speculation and innuendo are GREAT fun!

Let’s make guesses about broad groups of people. Sexual preferences especially. Very titillating.

Go ahead. You take the next guess.
very fun stuff. score easy points.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Don’t jump all over ComplineSanFran please - s/he was responding to a request I made a page or two back. I only asked for a guesstimate from his/her point of view, so it was never meant to be that precise.

Thank you 3Doctors. Yes, I am only sharing my experience of colleagues and friends in the California area.

I do know of the book by Donald B. Cozens called The Changing Face of the Priesthood. Other than that, there just aren’t surveys or studies out there, just ‘guesses’. The Vatican gay reports are in a different category I would think.

 

[1neophyte]

Oh of course it wasn’t meant to be precise.
Let’s just guess. Speculation and innuendo are GREAT fun!

Let’s make guesses about broad groups of people. Sexual preferences especially. Very titillating.

Go ahead. You take the next guess.
very fun stuff. score easy points.

Aren’t you supposed to be fasting from posting?

 

[Paganus]

“They are two very holy guys,” Catholic priest Ronald (Ron) Victor said of his nephew and nephew-in-law.** “I do see their union as being sacred and sacramental,** in the sense that it reflects God’s love.”

To officiate at their wedding could have led to discipline by his superiors. But Ron Victor, the pastor of St. Isidore Catholic parish in Macomb, said he had considered blessing their union privately,

This is a scandal. To declare that a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance “reflects God’s love” seems more than a little blasphemous as well.

We should pray for such priests. And avoid their parishes. And, if possible, any diocese that tolerates them.

 

[Cider]

Thank you 3Doctors. Yes, I am only sharing my experience of colleagues and friends in the California area.

I do know of the book by Donald B. Cozens called The Changing Face of the Priesthood. Other than that, there just aren’t surveys or studies out there, just ‘guesses’. The Vatican gay reports are in a different category I would think.

Goodbye, Good Men by Michael S Rose does address the issue as does The Faithful Departed by Philip F Lawler although not to the same depth as the first book.

 

[Cider]

. . . presumably to show up how neurotic the priest is.

.

I don’t see the logic in that argument. Why would the nephew want to show the priest as neurotic? After all he supports the mens same sex union. If anything they probably did it in the naive belief that if enough people stand up things will change in the Church.