How a married gay Catholic couple live their faith

[ProdigalSun]

What’s amazing is that you claim 50% of priests in you environs are gay with no support whatsoever.
First of all, if you haven’t had personal knowledge of their sexual practice, you have no business making your guess, and you owe an apology.

Should we go on to point number two or would you like to address point number one with some substance first?

Yes Compline loves to throw out these guesses of his. THe is roughly 400 priests in the SF diocese and he knows them all well enough to “guess” the 50% are gay. Of course he is not sure how many are active sexually. I take what he says with a grain of salt and realize that he is he with an agenda. We must pray for our priests and all who are trapped in this disordered lifestyle.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Why would you be sure of that? If bishops handled things appropriately, such men would never have become priests in the first place.

That at least rings true. These priests are a dying breed, the young men joining the seminary and preist joining the missions to the America’s are good and Holy men who will bring Christ to the Church once again.

 

[TMC]

That at least rings true. These priests are a dying breed, the young men joining the seminary and preist joining the missions to the America’s are good and Holy men who will bring Christ to the Church once again.

Are you saying that young men today are holier than they were in the past? Or that they are less gay? Either way, what is your basis for that judgment?

 

[ProdigalSun]

What would you call them? I mean they’re not really immigrants per se since they’re being brought in from their home countries to fill holes in the US. I mean yes it’s a strange word to see associated with people but it’s an accurate word to use.

And it has been going on for some time. Almost every Catholic Church I’ve visited over the last 20 years has had at least one non-American priest they’ve brought in due to a shortage of native priests or they’ve made due without. Which doesn’t surprise me. I always use my childhood parish as a gauge, and in the 80’s they had the pastor, an assistant priest and at least 2 priests in residence who also assisted as needed. Now they’re down to just the pastor. (to be fair this isn’t a uniquely Catholic issue, the dean of my Episcopal parish is not originally American either).

Because the America’s are becoming more and more a mission territory. these priests are missionaries coming to reevangilize a lost Christian society. We must pray for them and give them what ever help they need.

 

[HungerNThirst4R]

MODERATOR NOTICE

The charity on this thread needs to improve. Comparing a homosexual couple with murderers is uncharitable and unacceptable. Please stop.

If you have questions on CAF charity rules, please review the forum rules.

:clapping:

 

[ProdigalSun]

Some of the branches upon which hold the faith of Christians who are not faithful Catholics view homosexuality and marriage differently than does the faithful Catholic. Some branches also believe closed communion is wrong. Or female priests are right. It’s all a matter of interpretations and understanding.

No it isn’t t is a matter of truth. People with a relativistic world view have a hard time understanding the reality of hard truths. Either Homosexual sex is wrong or it is not. It is either a sin or it is not. There really is no grey area.

Cheers!

 

[zz912]

Some of the branches upon which hold the faith of Christians who are not faithful Catholics view homosexuality and marriage differently than does the faithful Catholic. Some branches also believe closed communion is wrong. Or female priests are right. It’s all a matter of interpretations and understanding.

But you also claim that there is an objective perfect state that we are on a journey towards. What is the moral state of homosexual acts in this objective perfect state?

 

[zz912]

Sy (do you prefer to be called Sy or Sy Noe?), I am glad you brought up the concept of journey. I have been re-reading my beloved TS Elliot lately in light of the journey to God. The mystics, too, speak of the journey of the soul. That’s good imagery for me - my journey. It’s a good solid one in Christianity. We have the labyrinth here in San Francisco - the original one brought over from Chartres Cathedral. It lives at Grace Cathedral. Walking the labyrinth is the symbolic journey, isn’t it? Well, that’s why it was created in the Middle Ages, wasn’t it - for those who could not go on the Crusades, and gain those indulgences, it was a way to simulate the holy journey.

The person who challenged you - I’m afraid I don’t have the name - says you are reluctant to admit that the person on the journey is wrong or imperfect. But that’s not the point at all. The point, at least to me in MY journey, is that I keep moving forward toward God’s embracing arms. It doesn’t matter two shakes if I hop, skip, or jump badly. It’s God I’m after - and therefore my complete and whole self is what I bring.

What will you do when God tells you some of your positions are wrong?

 

[zz912]

Either is fine. I really only put the 2 together to pacify the forum so Sy works for me too and it saves a few letters. I didn’t quite understand ZZ912’s point anyway. I just assumed perhaps none of us have reached perfection yet along our journeys to it. And an excellent point you added in your other post about discernment. Thank for doing so.

To make the claim that there is a perfect state that is the objective we are journeying towards, you must describe and explain this objectively perfect state is. So please describe it and how we can know anything about this state so that we can actually journey TOWARDS it instead of away from it.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

To make the claim that there is a perfect state that is the objective we are journeying towards, you must describe and explain this objectively perfect state is. So please describe it and how we can know anything about this state so that we can actually journey TOWARDS it instead of away from it.

I think the whole point of the journey metaphor is that you don’t know what you will encounter, nor do you know the end, except that it is God’s embrace. Haven’t you ever read Pilgrim’s Progress?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

What will you do when God tells you some of your positions are wrong?

So far, He has not.

 

[DHarris1995]

Do I believe what the priest did was scandalous or in anyway wrong? Absolutely not… But, he obviously knew that Catholics would not be very pleased with his actions. I have no problem with him but he should have been much more responsible about speaking about their marriage.

 

[clem456]

So far, He has not.

That is unbelievable.

literally…unbelievable

 

[zz912]

So far, He has not.

Then you are claiming you are infallible and inerrant, at least up until this point in time. I simply don’t believe you.

But this does highlight how those who espouse relativistic beliefs because we are on a “journey”, never actually believe they are wrong in anything.

 

[zz912]

I think the whole point of the journey metaphor is that you don’t know what you will encounter, nor do you know the end, except that it is God’s embrace. Haven’t you ever read Pilgrim’s Progress?

How do you know it is God’s embrace, or that it is perfect? These are absolutes that require substantiation. Additionally, you must be able to describe how we are to journey, in which direction, and how we will know. Otherwise you are just a blind man leading other blind men, and both will fall into a hole.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

**Please pray for Fr Ron Victor, the priest which the OP refers to:
**

"A longtime priest in the Detroit archdiocese, Fr. Victor has been involved in controversy before. In July, he testified on behalf of a fellow priest convicted of possession of child porn and accused of sex abuse. The priest, Fr. Timothy Murray, no longer in active ministry, was discovered in possession of 685 videos of child porn on seven computers in his home in 2012. He was sentenced to 16 years. The sentencing judge said the crimes were “stomach-churning.”

Murray had been removed as pastor from a parish in 2004 after officials discovered he had sexually abused an altar boy in the 1980s. The statute of limitations prohibited any lawsuits, but Murray did admit to the crime. The Detroit archdiocese currently lists Murray as “permanently removed from public ministry.”

At the court hearing for child porn in July, Fr. Victor appeared on Murray’s behalf, submitting a letter to the judge testifying to Murray’s “good character.” “In spite of his criminal behavior, I consider Mr. Murray to be a person of good character. One of his strongest traits is his honesty,” Victor wrote.

And in a mysterious incident in 2005, Victor was the victim of assault by a fellow priest who bore a grudge against Victor. According to a report in the Detroit News,

Fr. Bondy walked towards Victor loudly stating, “The thief is back. … Lock everything up, nothing is safe with you around.” Father Bondy continued toward Fr. Victor, telling him he was not welcome at St. Clement again. Father Bondy proceeded to grab Fr. Victor around his neck, choke him, push him against a closet door, and slap him twice.

Victor never elaborated on the details spurring the incident, and the archdiocese urged him not to press charges.

As to Victor’s most recent comments, he admits that although he once stayed quiet about blessing same-sex unions, he is “comfortable being public with it now.” Even so, he expressed frustration that he couldn’t bless his nephew’s same-sex union in a Catholic parish. “* a little angry and a little disappointed,” Victor remarked, “that we couldn’t do it in a church where I could have officiated.”

Although he offered to bless the union privately, his nephew ultimately refused the offer because the couple didn’t want anything “clandestine or controversial.” Victor himself believes many priests would be open to blessing same-sex weddings even though “they can’t be real public with that.”

Dissident gay activist groups like New Ways Ministry are applauding Fr. Victor for his gay-friendly stance."

churchmilitant.com/news/article/detroit-priest-calls-gay-marriage-sacramental*

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Then you are claiming you are infallible and inerrant, at least up until this point in time. I simply don’t believe you.

Why would you assume that? That is taking things a bit to an extreme, isn’t it?

My beliefs are intricately woven into my journey with Christ. I am always learning and growing in those beliefs, as I assume, everyone is. I take my theology quite seriously, and each day I must hammer it out, to quote one of my mentors.

If I were totally wrong in hammering that out, I know that God would let me know in some way. Instead, I have the joy of discovery and inspiration and discipleship. And because I am human, I only get glimpses of the fullness of Christ. How in the world could anyone be infallible as they journey through life? We cannot know God in that way, ever, until we are in his Presence.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Yes, I pray that all the priest, that believe as Father Victor does, would please protest by leaving the priesthood. Even If it means a major priest shortage.

Our Father will never abandon his church… we will be alright.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

How do you know it is God’s embrace, or that it is perfect? These are absolutes that require substantiation. Additionally, you must be able to describe how we are to journey, in which direction, and how we will know. Otherwise you are just a blind man leading other blind men, and both will fall into a hole.

How do I know God? Good grief! Because I know God. Don’t you?

 

[ProdigalSun]

Why would you assume that? That is taking things a bit to an extreme, isn’t it?

My beliefs are intricately woven into my journey with Christ. I am always learning and growing in those beliefs, as I assume, everyone is. I take my theology quite seriously, and each day I must hammer it out, to quote one of my mentors.

If I were totally wrong in hammering that out, I know that God would let me know in some way. Instead, I have the joy of discovery and inspiration and discipleship. And because I am human, I only get glimpses of the fullness of Christ. How in the world could anyone be infallible as they journey through life? We cannot know God in that way, ever, until we are in his Presence.

if only you could understand what it is you just wrote… I pray you will indeed open your heart to the truth that God yearns for you to receive and understand.

Peace!