How allowing evil could lead to greater good?

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STT said:
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Vico:
These are not contradictory:
  • If there was no free will then there would be no heaven and Beatific Vision
  • You can have free will and have beatific vision
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Tell me how a rational being can possibly choose Hell over Heaven?
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There are higher and lesser goods. The lesser good is chosen at the expense of the higher good.

The Catechism put it this way:
397 Man, tempted by the devil, let his trust in his Creator die in his heart and, abusing his freedom, disobeyed God’s command. This is what man’s first sin consisted of.278 All subsequent sin would be disobedience toward God and lack of trust in his goodness.

298 In that sin man preferred himself to God and by that very act scorned him. …
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TheLittleLady said:
Sometimes good comes in spite of evil, but, evil cannot cause good.

For example, a child conceived in an immoral act. The act is evil. In spite of that evil, the good of a child can result.
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Yes, having a child is good but those who commit evil go to Hell.
 
whatistrue said:
Rational people make stupid choices all the time. Rational is not equivalent to smart.
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I call stupid choice as mistake. They, rational people, are either not aware of the consequences or overwhelmed by their needs.
 
6 + 3 = 9. So does 5 + 4. Your way of thinking is not the only correct way. Neither is mine.
 
STT said:
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goout:
So you have never done anything in your life that injured another person and disrupted the relationship.
I find that hard to believe.
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I hurt people in my life but not intentionally. We all do mistakes.
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And so you freely chose actions that hurt others. You made a mistake, as you say.

And what are the consequences of those actions? Do they cause rupture in the relationship?

You cannot do human morality in the theoretical. Morality deals with what is real.
That is the profundity of free will.
 
I do not disagree. Church teaching is clear, we may never do evil thinking good may come of it.
 
goout said:
And so you freely chose actions that hurt others. You made a mistake, as you say.

And what are the consequences of those actions? Do they cause rupture in the relationship?

You cannot do human morality in the theoretical. Morality deals with what is real.
That is the profundity of free will.
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As I said I didn’t intend or plan to hurt people. Bad thing happens as a matter of ignorance or when you are overwhelmed in a situation. We are not God so things can go wrong and we hurt people unintentionally.
 
po18guy said:
Simply put: was there ample evidence of courage, self-sacrifice, heroism, increased prayer and faith during and after the 9/11 attacks?

That is the good that God alone can bring from evil.
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Sorry, I’m missing something here. The OP suggests evil leading to a greater good. Presumably on some good/evil balance, the good will outweigh the evil.

So in regard to 9/11, are you suggesting that overall it was a good thing? That the good outweighed the evil?

If not, your comment was invalid. But if so, then another 9/11 type event can only bring even more good.
 
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When you say “Allowing evil could lead to a greater good” one must differentiate between us human beings and GOD.
GOD being the creator of everything can allow evil to happen or can intervene either directly or through external agents to prevent the evil from happening.
If HE allows it there must be a powerful reason for it. Philosophers, Theologians and the Church explain it by saying that “GOD allows evil to achieve a greater good”.

Because we do not possess, the full knowledge of GOD’s acts, we cannot within our lives find out when this happened. But at the end of times we are told that all truth shall be manifest and we will know.

Us on the other hand, should never allow evil to happen, should prevent it and strive, so that it cannot happen.

An example of this, is allowing mere humans to kill HIS son. By this act HE has given us the gift of being able to call HIM “Father”. A very evil act by us! brought the most beautiful good in the history of mankind.

Peace.
 
You are reading tons into my post.
  1. 9/11 attacks.
  2. New Yorkers respond, sacrificing self - even their lives - to help strangers.
  3. Prayers are sent up and prople once again dedisscover the fragility of life and the need for a prayer life.
  4. Maybe I’m weird, but sacrificing for others, prayer and a faith life seem to be good things.
Never did I even hint that it was a good thing overall - just that good came from it. Am I not being clear enough?

Does it need further explanation? If fo. pease so kind as to PM.
 
I guess a specific example would be needed for this kind of question. The Trent Catechism states killing someone in an act of self-defence warrents no guilt of sin.
 
po18guy said:
You are reading tons into my post.
  1. 9/11 attacks.
  2. New Yorkers respond, sacrificing self - even their lives - to help strangers.
  3. Prayers are sent up and prople once again dedisscover the fragility of life and the need for a prayer life.
  4. Maybe I’m weird, but sacrificing for others, prayer and a faith life seem to be good things.
Never did I even hint that it was a good thing overall - just that good came from it. Am I not being clear enough?

Does it need further explanation? If fo. pease so kind as to PM.
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The OP refers to ‘greater good’. As I said in the intro to my post. And I wasn’t reading anything into your post but asking exactly what you meant. If there was no greater good then it doesn’t seem to answer the OP.

Clarification was all that was needed.
 
We do not and cannot know the extent of good that same from this, or any tragedy. I was merely pointing out some of the good that came from it.

Sorry to have offended.
 
po18guy said:
We do not and cannot know the extent of good that same from this, or any tragedy. I was merely pointing out some of the good that came from it.

Sorry to have offended.
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Gracious, please. No apology. I wasn’t offended at all. It was a genuine question on my part.
 
STT said:
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TheLittleLady:
Those who die in a state of unrepentent mortal sin go to hell.
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Either way, whether you repent or not, no good comes out of evil.
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Catechism
412 But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away."307 And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!’"308
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