How Are "SDAs" Not In Harmony With The Apostles?

[Marsha_Adams]

I will be completely candid with you. Most of the SDA doctrines scare me. I do have friends that are SDA and I’m afraid for them. But do you agree that a lot, if not most of SDAs don’t know all of their doctrine? I know they “study” before they are baptized and join the church but I’ll be darned if I can get anything out of my friends on what that’s about. I can’t find any kind of information on any form of classes given to them.

Do you have some insight on that?

Happily

I am glad that most of the SDA doctrines scare you. You should be afraid, VERY afraid of these doctrines and for the souls of your SDA friends - although (and here is the good news, believe it or not) most SDAs have been so thoroughly indoctrinated into these false doctrines, particularly if they were born into the denomination, that they fall safely into the category of the “invincibly ignorant”. They cannot see or understand the truth, they are incapable of it. God understands this and will save them.

This leads me the second part of your post. NO, I absolutely do not agree “that a lot, if not most of SDAs don’t know all of their doctrine” Every Saturday morning the adult members show up for Sabbath School where they study their Sabbath School lesson. They are catechized their entire lives. They are taught to give Bible studies to non-believers and do “lay activities” in order to proselytize non-believers. (They take particular pleasure in proselytizing poorly catechized Catholics. Large numbers of their converts each year are Catholics and they boast of it.) There are few denominations in all of Protestantism that are as well and thoroughly catechized as SDAs

Marsha

 

[Protestant101]

Hello Everyone!

I hope you remember that I am only one, and you are many. Some here have expressed chagrin at the fact that I have “not replied;” as if I did something wrong, or “refused to answer.”

I have been quite surprised at all the posts made since I was last here - over 4 pages. How can I reply to everything or everyone? As much as I’d like to, it is impossible, so please be patient if I don’t reply to something.

I have read through all the posts, but I think it will be best to wait and pray for a bit before replying to any of them - there are so many, I need time to consider where to start.

I am not going to bother defending myself against any of the personal charges or characterizations, but I do want to reply briefly to the idea that I may hate anyone here, because of what’s been posted to me. Nothing could be farther from the truth!! I don’t take offence to anything said to me in this topic. Catholics and others here are just saying/doing what they believe and have been taught. I have nothing against that kind of thing. I will be back asap to reply to some of what I have been reading.

May God bless each one of you! :stretcher:

 

[happilycatholic]

Happily

I am glad that most of the SDA doctrines scare you. You should be afraid, VERY afraid of these doctrines and for the souls of your SDA friends - although (and here is the good news, believe it or not) most SDAs have been so thoroughly indoctrinated into these false doctrines, particularly if they were born into the denomination, that they fall safely into the category of the “invincibly ignorant”. They cannot see or understand the truth, they are incapable of it. God understands this and will save them.

This leads me the second part of your post. NO, I absolutely do not agree “that a lot, if not most of SDAs don’t know all of their doctrine” Every Saturday morning the adult members show up for Sabbath School where they study their Sabbath School lesson. They are catechized their entire lives. They are taught to give Bible studies to non-believers and do “lay activities” in order to proselytize non-believers. (They take particular pleasure in proselytizing poorly catechized Catholics. Large numbers of their converts each year are Catholics and they boast of it.) There are few denominations in all of Protestantism that are as well and thoroughly catechized as SDAs

Marsha

You’re not saying that they study proselytizing non-believers in Sabbath school, that’s a separate study, correct?

I have seen this in their personalities though. It seems to be a huge part of their exsistance, if you will. he very friend whose baptism I went to tried really hard to convert my boyfriend to SDA from Lutheren, but he ultimately chose catholicism. His parents have converted to catholicism too.

My position on that comes from what you mentioned in their being ignorant. I don’t know if I’d look at it that way or more like they are easily led and seem to be needy of acceptance. I mean no disrespect but they don’t seem to be an especially intellectual congregation. I know some exceptions to that though. I sure don’t want to presume them to be “stupid” because that would create a whole new excuse where one isn’t merited.

I guess they don’t seem to be an especially inquisitive bunch.

Or maybe I just have goofy friends

What is your take on the investigative judgement doctrine?

 

[guanophore]

Happily

I was an SDA for the first 31 years of my life. I attended an SDA university and I took 54 credit hours of religion (the equivalent of a major). I read all of EGW’s books, gave Bible studies, taught religion in an SDA school and preached from the SDA pulpit on occasion.

I cannot say what is in an individual’s heart, but I can say with some degree of expertise what the denomination teaches.

Marsha

Thanks for sharing your experience. It is very helpful. I don’t have much personal experience at all!

 

[po18guy]

Hello Everyone!

I hope you remember that I am only one, and you are many. Some here have expressed chagrin at the fact that I have “not replied;” as if I did something wrong, or “refused to answer.”

I have been quite surprised at all the posts made since I was last here - over 4 pages. How can I reply to everything or everyone? As much as I’d like to, it is impossible, so please be patient if I don’t reply to something.

I have read through all the posts, but I think it will be best to wait and pray for a bit before replying to any of them - there are so many, I need time to consider where to start.

I am not going to bother defending myself against any of the personal charges or characterizations, but I do want to reply briefly to the idea that I may hate anyone here, because of what’s been posted to me. Nothing could be farther from the truth!! I don’t take offence to anything said to me in this topic. Catholics and others here are just saying/doing what they believe and have been taught. I have nothing against that kind of thing. I will be back asap to reply to some of what I have been reading.

May God bless each one of you! :stretcher:

You need inspiration. There is a parish close to you. Go and sit before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Yes, it’s really Him. He will speak to your heart. WARNING: It takes faith, and may be a life-changing experience!

Thank you and God bless you for your prayers!

 

[Marsha_Adams]

You’re not saying that they study proselytizing non-believers in Sabbath school, that’s a separate study, correct?

I have seen this in their personalities though. It seems to be a huge part of their exsistance, if you will. he very friend whose baptism I went to tried really hard to convert my boyfriend to SDA from Lutheren, but he ultimately chose catholicism. His parents have converted to catholicism too.

My position on that comes from what you mentioned in their being ignorant. I don’t know if I’d look at it that way or more like they are easily led and seem to be needy of acceptance. I mean no disrespect but they don’t seem to be an especially intellectual congregation. I know some exceptions to that though. I sure don’t want to presume them to be “stupid” because that would create a whole new excuse where one isn’t merited.

I guess they don’t seem to be an especially inquisitive bunch.

Or maybe I just have goofy friends

What is your take on the investigative judgement doctrine?

Yes, the Sabbath School lesson is like catechism class. The Lay Activities is emphasized separately.

Look up invincible ignorance in the Catholic Encyclopedia. It is different from being ignorant of math for example. Invincible ignorance is an impediment to accepting truth, just a total inability to grasp or believe it. In the SDA case, if Jesus were to return tonight and take them to heaven and explain to them that the Catholic Church was the One True Church which He personally founded, they would pass the entire experience off as an halucination. They would simply be unable to believe it because it is so foreign to their life long indoctrination.

Those few of us who have been able to recognize the truth and convert to Catholicism are totally indebted to an overwhelming totally undeserved gift of grace because there is no other eplanation for why we should have been so blessed as to overcome this invincible ignorance.

As for not being a very inquisitive bunch, that isn’t the issue. The issue is that in terms of spiritual reading, if it wasn’t written by an SDA they don’t read it and if they do they simply disregard anything that doesn’t agree with their doctrines as being error.

Marsha

 

[Marsha_Adams]

You need inspiration. There is a parish close to you. Go and sit before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Yes, it’s really Him. He will speak to your heart. WARNING: It takes faith, and may be a life-changing experience!

Thank you and God bless you for your prayers!

Good advice. There was an SDA woman working on her graduate degree in theology at Andrews University, an SDA university. Frequently she needed to drive down to Notre Dame University to use their library. During her lunch break she would go into the empty church and just sit. She didn’t attend Mass. She didn’t read Catholic literature. She didn’t believe in the Real Presence (if she even knew about transubstantiation.) She would just sit quietly in the church for a short while. But as time went by she recognized Jesus there. She converted Catholic and entered the Discalced Carmelite Cloister.

No one ever converted to SDA by just sitting in an empty church.

Marsha

 

[guanophore]

Good advice. There was an SDA woman working on her graduate degree in theology at Andrews University, an SDA university. Frequently she needed to drive down to Notre Dame University to use their library. During her lunch break she would go into the empty church and just sit. She didn’t attend Mass. She didn’t read Catholic literature. She didn’t believe in the Real Presence (if she even knew about transubstantiation.) She would just sit quietly in the church for a short while. But as time went by she recognized Jesus there. She converted Catholic and entered the Discalced Carmelite Cloister.

No one ever converted to SDA by just sitting in an empty church.

Marsha

Well, clearly it was not “empty”.

 

[Protestant101]

No one ever converted to SDA by just sitting in an empty church. Marsha

Actually, this is not true; and it is something you would have no way of knowing with every single convert to the Adventist Church.

In my own personal experience; I made a decision to commit to Adventism while sitting in a little chapel on the side of the road, in the middle of a cross-country bike trip. It was a Catholic Church.

But if I say more, you may label me as “invincibly ignorant.”

Marsha; I know that you pride yourself as somewhat of an authority on Seventh-day Adventists, and what they believe, yet I will say as I have said to others here at CAF that no matter how much “training” you did in Adventist circles, no matter how involved you were with the Church, and all it’s activities, none of it makes you an expert in Adventism. You echo many opinions and claims; quoting the odd, brief source reference, but is this really what we can call authoritative knowledge about our beliefs?

No. I can see by the way you talk, and assert your “authority” over Adventist matters of belief and practice that you are not actually a good authority; but I also cannot see any truth in what you say about the denomination. I am glad that Catholics here consider you such an authority, it will make it easier for me to prove the falsehoods.

 

[po18guy]

Good advice. There was an SDA woman working on her graduate degree in theology at Andrews University, an SDA university. Frequently she needed to drive down to Notre Dame University to use their library. During her lunch break she would go into the empty church and just sit. She didn’t attend Mass. She didn’t read Catholic literature. She didn’t believe in the Real Presence (if she even knew about transubstantiation.) She would just sit quietly in the church for a short while. But as time went by she recognized Jesus there. She converted Catholic and entered the Discalced Carmelite Cloister.

No one ever converted to SDA by just sitting in an empty church.

Marsha

There are many such anecdotal stories of Eucharistic conversion. This points to the extreme measures that the Catholic Church resorts to in order to gain converts: The Lord.

 

[po18guy]

In my own personal experience; I made a decision to commit to Adventism while sitting in a little chapel on the side of the road, in the middle of a cross-country bike trip. It was a Catholic Church.

And one more visit and you will desire to eat His Body and drink His Blood. I pray for the day!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Realcatholicgk, I have to say something…it has been on my heart a little bit today as I’ve been reading these forums…

**Ashley, Thank you for your words. Sometimes we all need to be talked to insuch a caring and loving way. You did that, very well! Please know that I was not offended in any way.
Of course I don’t agree with most of what you said! Hey, don’t yell ~ I am kiding! It is good that you said the things that you did. They made me think, not change at all just think!
Please understand that I have nothing but love for not only my fellow man but all god’s creations! I am not a Native American yet I follow their teaching that we are all relatives. I love everything God made even mosquitoes ( I am waiting to ask him about them, and a few other things! )

I really do love our Protestant brethren.I pray for them all and their conversion every day in my rosary. I pray for conversions, the end of abortion. I even pray for the real dumb ones! There are some that I actually think are brain damaged or brain dead! The stupid things they believe and expect us to accept. But from their stand point maybe we seem the same. I know that If I follow the teachings of the CC and accept the things I don’t understand on Faith alone that I am doing the correct thing.

[Full disclosure= I have personally killed 54 human beings. I have been physically handicapped for over 42 years from gunshot wounds substained in the Vietnam War. I will admit that I do have a 'slightly ’ warped sense of humor. But, I also love all people of all races and stations in life. I pray the rosary every day, I attend Mass,I receive the sacraments, and I do many random acts of kindness and charity. I am an opinionated, informed Catholic that is ready to defend our Faith and our way of life from all enemies religious, foreign and domestic! However, I also have love and respect for all living things. I hate the sin but never the sinner] **

God bless you, and keep up the apologetics! Sometimes your “frank” approach is much more bold than I am brave enough to take! And we NEED brave Catholics who will teach the hard truths sometimes.

**

That is more true than you may even realize Ashley. Do you know that I never “LIE” in what I say? Every word I post is well researched and true to the best of my belief and our church teachings. When I first joined, I watched" for a couple days. I saw many angry people fighting and hurting each other.

freesmileys.org/smileys/violent080.gif**

I started to “joke”, “play” realized that sometimes sarcasm can open eyes. Being human, I’ll abmit that “sometimes” I may go a little too far. but If you notice I will come back and attempt to undo any harm. I want to
Nothing I say is actualy said with malice. To say SDA is a cult is True, even protestant think so! They are not friendly. I was rewally happy that Marsha Adams came here happilyCatholic was defending his SDA “friends” She has finally gotten through to him.
I don’t actualy "care’ about what the “false” believers in the counterfeit denominations believe or don’t believe. I actually have no personal anger towards any of them, and find them a little amusing to “play with” kind of lLike pulling legs off of spiders! Sorry, my warped sense of humor again!
I am on about 19 Threads. Many of the posters send me private messages saying they wish they had the nerve to say what I do. Some have even came out of their shells a little and stand up for our beliefs without being angry! Even some of the ones I insult see the humor and laugh at the absurdity of some of the things I say. Others ignore me, but I don’t care! It is their souls that are endangered, not mine! Like Fr Corapi, I call them like I see them! But I do it in such a way that I do not violate the TOS. I have actually been “reported” several times, but upon investigation have always been found innocent of what they claim I said! For about a week I called Protestants “heretics” every change I had and finally got one to “report” me.:extrahappy: It is allowed because that is what a protestant is "some one who has a “theological or religious opinion or doctrine in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church” The only ones the TOS said can’t be referred to are Eastern Rite Catholic ChurchesSee, it is actually an “art” to insult someone without insulting them!

Protestant101’s name should actually make many real Protestants angry. I mean, those who, like me, consider SDA a cult and not part of the real Protestant 33,000, counterfeit denominations or 28,000 imitation, subdenominations practicing 1,375 different doctrines. If a "Protestant use Catholic in their name wouldn’t we rightfuly be angry?

Anyway I also rambled. Thank you again. I will reread what you wrote, whenever I need to turn it down a little. God Bless

“To pray for those who are in mortal sin is the best kind of almsgiving. For the love of God, always remember such souls when you pray.” – St Teresa of Avila

Rob

 

[AshleyBelle]

:hug1: Thankyou for your post, realcatholicgk I’m so glad it didn’t come across in a bad way to you!

And thank you for sharing some of your background! God bless you for the sacrifice you’ve made serving in our military! You are an inspiration to everyone on these forums, and I appreciate your openess!

In Christ,
~*Ashley

 

[Realcatholicgk]

:hug1: Thankyou for your post, realcatholicgk I’m so glad it didn’t come across in a bad way to you!

And thank you for sharing some of your background! God bless you for the sacrifice you’ve made serving in our military! You are an inspiration to everyone on these forums, and I appreciate your openess!

In Christ,
~*Ashley

**
Ashley, My dear, :flowers: If I wasn’t a married man! (40 years same woman!)
We all have our opinions, and welcome to them. When I am approached in the wrong manner I normally say:

“Thank you for your opinion. I wrote it down. If I need any help, I will refer to the"People Who’s Opinion Doesn’t Matter” list and see if I can use anything you provided! Now go bother someone else!" **

 

[eva6206213]

wow~
Bump!

 

[Protestant101]

And one more visit and you will desire to eat His Body and drink His Blood. I pray for the day!

I already do that…Its called reading and studying the Bible.

 

[po18guy]

I already do that…Its called reading and studying the Bible.

So, do you eat your bible, too? Jesus: “Unless you eat (gnaw on) my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you” and “…for my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink” (John 6:51,53-55); “Take and eat, this is my body, given for you” “Take and drink, this is the new covenant in my blood”.(Matthew 26:26-28) And Paul: “Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?” (1 Corinthians 10:16) as well as "Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. (1 Corinthians 11:27-29)

If only you would dare to read these passages before our Blessed Lord in the Flesh!

Sadly, the SDA miss the entire point: Christ in the Flesh. They have Him only on paper.

As it is, I must retire to pray for you.

 

[po18guy]

I already do that…Its called reading and studying the Bible.

Ah, but paper is not His flesh and ink is not His blood.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Actually, this is not true; and it is something you would have no way of knowing with every single convert to the Adventist Church.

Hi 101, That is true! Anyone who makes an absolute statement is absolutely wrong every time.

In my own personal experience; I made a decision to commit to Adventism while sitting in a little chapel on the side of the road, in the middle of a cross-country bike trip. It was a Catholic Church.

**Martha said: “No one ever converted to SDA by just sitting in an empty church.” and then you said that! Wow, Isn’t that a coincidence! Reminds me of a old saying “Credo quia absurdum” I believe it because it is absurd. **

But if I say more, you may label me as “invincibly ignorant.”

**101 One thing I would never say about you is that you are invincible " **

Marsha; I know that you pride yourself as somewhat of an authority on Seventh-day Adventists, and what they believe, yet I will say as I have said to others here at CAF that no matter how much “training” you did in Adventist circles, no matter how involved you were with the Church, and all it’s activities, none of it makes you an expert in Adventism.

**Well not as much of an expert as you are that is for sure! She only had 35 years in the SDA. Oh, I forget what is your background in SDA? **

You echo many opinions and claims; quoting the odd, brief source reference, but is this really what we can call authoritative knowledge about our beliefs?

**You tell her 101! **

No. I can see by the way you talk, and assert your “authority” over Adventist matters of belief and practice that you are not actually a good authority; but I also cannot see any truth in what you say about the denomination. I am glad that Catholics here consider you such an authority, it will make it easier for me to prove the falsehoods.

101, Buddy I can actually hep you! Here you go:

Click Here First

Click Here Second

Click on Here Third

Click Here Fourth

** 101, Please see if there is anything I missed that you think we should know.**

**I can’t wait to see what you will teach us. We really are ignorant about your cult and the tragedy of ignorance is that its victims are unaware of their affliction. Luckly you are here to educate us all!

God Bless you!
**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

…Those few of us who have been able to recognize the truth and convert to Catholicism are totally indebted to an overwhelming totally undeserved gift of grace because there is no other eplanation for why we should have been so blessed as to overcome this invincible ignorance.
**
I actually was wondering about that. I have read that SDA is so cultish that to escape their belief system is said to be extremely hard, if not close to impossible.

As for not being a very inquisitive bunch, that isn’t the issue. The issue is that in terms of spiritual reading, if it wasn’t written by an SDA they don’t read it and if they do they simply disregard anything that doesn’t agree with their doctrines as being error.

Well truthfully Marsha, That sounds like most people. That is exactly how I read non catholic articles and teachings I disregard anything that is stupid or ignorant. By that, I mean anything that doesn’t agree with CC beliefs or doctrines! ** freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing024.gif

** God Bless you! **