How are we saved?

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
But viewing the leader of a Church, like the Pope, and making insinuations that he is without salvation is an acceptable form of judging in your opinion?

As for a violation of the rules, shouldn’t a Christian tell the truth even at personal cost or persecution? I know some Mormons believe in “lying for the Lord”, but it’s as unBiblical as sola scriptura is.

I’ll be totally honest here. If I see an attempt at proseltyzation, or disrespect of the Catholic Church, or other offensive violations of forum rules, I report the post. I don’t try to hide it either, that’s the reason I post the smiley :onpatrol:.

You see golfjack, I take offense at the Protestant insinuations that Catholics need “saving” according to the standards of someone’s private interpretation. If you guys really viewed Catholics as Christians, why would you be here preaching salvation? Preaching salvation is not a discussion of theology, it a form of proseltyzing.

Protestants say they all agree on essentials, but deny Catholics agree with anything they believe. I believe in essentials believed by all Christians and I believe that agreement comes from the Holy Spirit. What I do not believe, is that the Holy Spirit leads the various Churches on “non-essentials”. The Holy Spirit cannot lie, nor can the Holy Spirit tell two truths that contradict each other. That is confusion and we know who is the author of confusion.

I believe the Catholic Church has the fulness of essentials, or truth. There are no non-essentials to the Catholic faith.
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First of all, I did not say that the pope was not saved, that is between him and God. When I talk to people about salvation (regardless who they are, or what denomination or position they may hold), my mandate according to the Word of God (the Bible,my authority), is to find out if they are saved or not. I believe that there are only two kinds of people in this world, the saved and the unsaved. Someone came to me and told me of God’s plan of salvation, then after carefully studying of the scripture, I repented of my sin and accepted this free plan of salvation that God offered me. We are God’s feet,hands and tongue if we are born again, that is why we are called to go in His name and be a witness to the world, this is being a good soldier of the Cross. Preaching salvation is directed from the Word of God, if you reject this, then you are not only rejecting me, but you are rejecting the word of God. In Christian love, Ralph
 
ralphy said:
First of all, I did not say that the pope was not saved, that is between him and God. When I talk to people about salvation (regardless who they are, or what denomination or position they may hold), my mandate according to the Word of God (the Bible,my authority), is to find out if they are saved or not…
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Why do you need to know this? Where in the Bible does it say I’m supposed to find out if others are saved or not? Jesus commands the we make disciples, not judge salvation of others.
 
davidv said:
Why do you need to know this? Where in the Bible does it say I’m supposed to find out if others are saved or not? Jesus commands the we make disciples, not judge salvation of others.
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David, I am not judging other people, my job is to give them God’s plan of salvation, plant the Seed, as it were, God will do the judging, but I must do my part. The unsaved will go to Hell, it is my purpose to help someone avoid that place. Ralph
 
Canto said:
When does the NT say the NT, that’s NT, is inspired?

How do you know all the right books are in the NT?
If the Holy Spirit, who did He reveal the list to?

Where does the NT say the NT is God-breathed?

2 Tim ch3

15 And because from your infancy you have known the holy **scriptures **which can instruct you to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:

vs 16 refers to the Old Testament
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[SIGN]The word of God is known by the Spirit that speaks to the heart[/SIGN].

John 16:8 “When **he (Spirit) comes, he will convict the world **of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.”

Luke 8:11"… The seed is the word of God. …15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop."

Ephesians 6:17 “Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
 
ralphy said:
David, I am not judging other people, my job is to give them God’s plan of salvation, plant the Seed, as it were, God will do the judging, but I must do my part. The unsaved will go to Hell, it is my purpose to help someone avoid that place. Ralph
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Then why did you say you needed to know if they are saved or not? Is this not “judging” them?
 
ralphy said:
First of all, I did not say that the pope was not saved, that is between him and God. When I talk to people about salvation (regardless who they are, or what denomination or position they may hold), my mandate according to the Word of God (the Bible,my authority), is to find out if they are saved or not. I believe that there are only two kinds of people in this world, the saved and the unsaved. Someone came to me and told me of God’s plan of salvation, then after carefully studying of the scripture, I repented of my sin and accepted this free plan of salvation that God offered me. We are God’s feet,hands and tongue if we are born again, that is why we are called to go in His name and be a witness to the world, this is being a good soldier of the Cross. Preaching salvation is directed from the Word of God, if you reject this, then you are not only rejecting me, but you are rejecting the word of God. In Christian love, Ralph
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Ralph,

Why did you come to a Christain forum to preach the word of God, if there are only believers and unbelievers?

I am a Christian, as directed by the Word of God. If you reject me, you reject Him. Now, clearly we have a disagreement, who is correct? Show me scripturally how only you can be correct and that I have to submit to YOUR authority? Remember, there are thousands of Protestant denominations all saying the same thing.
 
Daniel_Keeran said:
[SIGN]The word of God is known by the Spirit that speaks to the heart[/SIGN].

John 16:8 “When **he (Spirit) comes, he will convict the world **of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.”

Luke 8:11"… The seed is the word of God. …15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop."

Ephesians 6:17 “Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
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Daniel,

Should I copy and paste my response to your copy and paste, from another thread, to this post?

I won’t, but I will provide the Bible’s definition of the “word of God”.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.

You are reading it to mean the written word of God to serve your own purposes…
 
We remain saved by the Blood. It is always the Blood of Christ. 👍👍
Peace, Golfjack
 
golfjack said:
We remain saved by the Blood. It is always the Blood of Christ. 👍👍
Code: 
    Peace,   Golfjack
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And one must persevere to the end…

**Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

Rom 8:16 For the Spirit himself giveth testimony to our spirit that we are the sons of God.
Rom 8:17 And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only but much more now in my absence) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

1Co 9:27 But I chastise my body and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore, he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall.

Gal 5:4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace.

2Ti 2:11 A faithful saying: for if we be dead with him, we shall live also with him.
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, he continueth faithful, he cannot deny himself.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins:
Heb 10:27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries. **
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Daniel,

Should I copy and paste my response to your copy and paste, from another thread, to this post?

I won’t, but I will provide the Bible’s definition of the “word of God”.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.

You are reading it to mean the written word of God to serve your own purposes…
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You think the word of God in the following passages refers to the person of Jesus himself and not to the spoken or written word? Take a closer look:

Luke 8:11"… The seed is the word of God. …15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop."

Ephesians 6:17 “Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
 
PS, It is the Blood that makes us persevere. Romans 8:16 tells us that it is our recreated spirits that are born again. Do you really think that God creates imperfect born again spirits? How do you interpret 2 Cor. 5:17?
Peace, Golfjack
 
Daniel_Keeran said:
You think the word of God in the following passages refers to the person of Jesus himself and not to the spoken or written word? Take a closer look:

Luke 8:11"… The seed is the word of God. …15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop."

Ephesians 6:17 “Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

Hebrews 4:12 “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; **it **judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”
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I think the word of God is more than written word that you subscribe too. As I’ve explained, the Bible is the inerrant, inspired word of God. That means the Bible is infallible. Man’s private interpretation is not. This is easily evident by the number of Protestant denominations, all with different doctrines according to someone’s private interpretation.

The word as referenced in the scriptures you provided does not indicate a written word. You wish for everyone to accept your private interpretation for the sake of this discussion, The word of God is Jesus. You can speak about Him or you can read about Him.

You also have to consider that when the word of God was referenced in the scriptures you provided, there was only ONE written word and that was the Old Testament. The New Testament canon was not defined until about 300+ plus years after they were written. Before that, they were individual letters and epistles, scattered all across Asia. This alone tells us that the Church and the faith flourished without a New Testament. Once the canon of scriptures was defined, by the Catholic Church, the Church preserved those scriptures through the ages, or else the Protestants would have never had a Bible.

Martin Luther, that started the Protestant reformation even admitted this.
“We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (Catholics)–that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it."
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Now, we’ve come full circle again and you have not provided the scriptures that grant you the authority to say your interpretation is correct over our interpretation.

Christ ordained the Apostles, who through the imposition of hands started the Apostolic authority. There is not one instance in scriptures, where any individual appointed/ordained themself to have the authority to teach, or make eccumenical decisions.

Christ built a Church and promised that even the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Man cannot improve what Christ built, because he disagrees with the Church Christ built. The Church teaches the word of God, both written and spoken and like His word, shall not pass away.

Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my word shall not pass away.
 
golfjack said:
PS, It is the Blood that makes us persevere. Romans 8:16 tells us that it is our recreated spirits that are born again. Do you really think that God creates imperfect born again spirits? How do you interpret 2 Cor. 5:17?
Code: 
    Peace,   Golfjack
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It is our FAITH in the blood that makes us persevere.

Scriptures warn us about falling away.

**Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 Have moreover tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making him a mockery.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins:
Heb 10:27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries.**

Are you saying the scriptures contradict each other? I know you’re not, but it’s the same type question as you present to me by asking, “Do you really think that God creates imperfect born again spirits?”
 
PS, What I am saying that you and others do not understand the New Birth. If you are saying it is possible for one to lose their salvation, I agree it is possible, but don’t think it happens that often. You see, it is possible to deny Christ after being saved, as an act of free will. Heb. 6:4-6 gives us the conditions. But sins can’t make us lose salvation because of what Heb. 9:28 tells us. In other words, unconfessed sins do not make us lose salvation. And if one does deny Christ after being saved, he is lost forever.

Do you have any understanding of the spirit, soul, and body of mankind? You would do well to get a hold of this concept. 👍
Peace, Golfjack
 
golfjack said:
PS, What I am saying that you and others do not understand the New Birth. If you are saying it is possible for one to lose their salvation, I agree it is possible, but don’t think it happens that often. You see, it is possible to deny Christ after being saved, as an act of free will. Heb. 6:4-6 gives us the conditions. But sins can’t make us lose salvation because of what Heb. 9:28 tells us. In other words, unconfessed sins do not make us lose salvation. And if one does deny Christ after being saved, he is lost forever.

Do you have any understanding of the spirit, soul, and body of mankind? You would do well to get a hold of this concept. 👍
Peace, Golfjack
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We can deny Christ by our “works.” Works are actions that we do. Sin is an evil work. All mortal sin is an act of free will. Mortal sin causes us to lose our salvation and we have to repent and confess in order to become saved/justified again.

Titus 1:16 “They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.”

1 John 2:4 “He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

If we deny Christ by our works (sin), then we are no longer saved. We have fallen from grace and severed ourselves from Christ.

Check out forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5256025&postcount=888 for an example showing this very thing.
 
Titus 1:16 “They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.”

LITERAL TRANSLATION WOULD BE - WORKS WITHOUT FAITH IS NOTHING

1 John 2:4 “He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

LITERAL TRANSLATION WOULD BE - YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN YOUR KNOWLEDGE
OF GOD THEREFORE YOU HAVE NO TRUTH
OF HIM AT ALL.
 
Come on guys, please don’t take scripture out of context… Verse 16 of Titus is talking about the unbeliever.
Peace, Golfjack
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Ralph,

Why did you come to a Christain forum to preach the word of God, if there are only believers and unbelievers?

I am a Christian, as directed by the Word of God. If you reject me, you reject Him. Now, clearly we have a disagreement, who is correct? Show me scripturally how only you can be correct and that I have to submit to YOUR authority? Remember, there are thousands of Protestant denominations all saying the same thing.
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I am not sure that I understand your first statement “if there are only believers and unbelievers”, are you telling me that all Roman catholics are saved and there are no “unbelievers” among you, in other words, all are born again. I only project what the author of the Bible (God) has written, when you reject what He says, you are in trouble. I am only the messenger, rejecting me personally dosen’t mount to anything. I have no authority on my own, I am only passing on what He said. PTL Ralph
 
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