How can Catholics vote for Joe Biden

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Yeah it’s an absurd position to hold. If it is so cruel why do they not want to put poor people out of their misery? I think they secretly just hate the poor and can’t imagine how one can have a fulfilling life without money.
 
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Billy76 said:
Except the Joe Biden’s stances takes away more life. There is proportionate view to Trump in terms of life. That is what the difference is.
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Agree Biden is worse on abortion, but neither seem good

Biden seems better on the immigrant, the death penalty, poverty, the environment and the elderly… among other life issues.

I think that coupled with the sexism, other very questionable stances on white supremacy, his tendency to lie and his bullying tactics of Trump … make it a hard choice to vote for him
 
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If the abortion Biden supports was another group of people, say the elderly, would you hold the same position?
 
I mean, Christ was born in a manger, which sounds pretty rough, so someone not having money isn’t really the greatest excuse for abortion. I don’t disagree with your point about poor either.
 
Also, though I was taught to be pro-life from very early on, the statistics concerning race were shocking.

Pretty much we have the pioneer of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger called a racist.

We have African Americans accounting for 36% of all abortions though they are 12-14% of the population. For me, it is unconscionable to support this kind of system and all of the flowery arguments defending 'choice hardly change these shocking statistics. If you vote for the system as is, it does seem like you help this unjust system.

Things continue to go like they do in the inner-city imo, because life is seen as disposable, cheap.

Likewise, voting for the system can send money overseas to abort foreigners, again, a big red flag I can not give any support to.
 
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Yeah I know. Sorry if my replies are insinuating that you specifically hold those views. I was just thinking out loud against someone who hypothetically does hold that view.
 
Billy76 said:
If the abortion Biden supports was another group of people, say the elderly, would you hold the same position?
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So if Biden were to say it was okay for some to make the choice to kill their elderly parent? Is that what you mean?

I would be against that …
 
Greenybird said:
Having a military is fine, but when innocent non combatants are regularly killed (example- drone strikes) with little to no oversight or attempt to prevent that from happening again in the future is definitely against church teaching. The two things are not identical, but it is still money going towards somebody getting killed.
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There is a big moral difference. Militaries are not supposed to seek out non-combatants to kill and, at least in the case of the U.S., does not. Civilian deaths are unintended. In abortion, death of an innocent child is the ONLY intention. It’s not a “side effect”, it’s the purpose.
 
Billy76 said:
So it is okay if it is an unborn child but not the elderly?
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I don’t know how you took that from my comment.

I don’t support abortion or euthanasia

It seems you were trying to say that you can’t vote for someone who supports abortion. The problem with your argument is that Trump supports abortion too…Granted to a lesser extent than Biden. That’s why there are several other life issues to consider as well like the death penalty the immigrant the impoverished the elderly etc.
 
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What I am struggling with is how you are equalizing the Biden platform vs the Trump platform. Under the Biden platform, more people die. How could it be a consideration? I still struggle to understand.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I’ll answer that if you tell me why is should expect some poor fellow to pay for the wonderful network of bicycle trails around Minneapolis that I use but he never does.
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Probably shouldn’t, any more than the public ought to be forced to pay for a “city” golf course and club.
godisgood77 said:
In addition, please remember that Trump supports some abortions.
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Does he? What has he done to promote “some” abortions? Another Dem talking point.
godisgood77 said:
Biden seems better on the immigrant, the death penalty, poverty, the environment and the elderly… among other life issues.
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Then tell us what he has done for them. No generalities, please, real facts. Condemning Trump with Democrat talking points is not helping anybody.
godisgood77 said:
I don’t support abortion or euthanasia
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Supporting the candidate who promotes the evil is supporting the evil.
godisgood77 said:
Trump supports abortion too
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Again, tell us what he has done to promote abortion. Facts, please.
godisgood77 said:
That’s why there are several other life issues to consider as well like the death penalty the immigrant the impoverished the elderly etc.
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Not proportionate. The immigrant, the impoverished, the elderly, all live. The aborted are all killed, and on purpose.
 
Greenybird said:
Collateral damage was very clearly in reference to the non-combatants
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Explain the if…then.
IF money going to Planned Parenthood is an issue THEN we should take issue with tax money going towards the military as well.
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If you are backtracking on collateral damage - i.e., that it doesn’t apply to abortion - then the claim in your statement is completely nullified.

So if you are making, in effect, no claim, then why waste keystrokes? 🤔
 
I didn’t proofread my post on an online forum, that’s why the if is there
 
Planned Parenthood is not the US government.

The US military is the government. This has been going on for centuries that the US funds the military through tax dollars. One can debate it and there may be valid points to such an argument.

Also, as a general note, let’s note Vatican teaching, Vatican teaching does not say pick the perfect pro-lifer but the most pro-life. Of course, there are many factors. But it isn’t homespun definitions either.
 
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Victoria33 said:
This is totally unrealistic in that Planned Parenthood and the Democrat party fight against adoptions and even crisis pregnancy centers.
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The most basic requirement of objective journalism in order to create balanced view of any topic is to seek feedback from both sides. That’s Journalism 101 stuff. This isn’t journalism. This doesn’t pretend to be journalism. But if you follow the link to the tweet, and then follow the tweet’s link to the article on which she’s commented, it’s possible achieve a semblance of that balance and become better informed.


Crisis Pregnancy Centers are not merely dishonest, they’re an exercise in bad math for anyone specifically opposed to abortion. For those who are also opposed to birth control, it’s a more complicated calculation. Nearly all abortions stem from unplanned pregnancies.


Most Planned Parenthood clients are there for birth control, and by providing birth control to those most at risk of seeking an abortion, their net contribution is not merely a decrease in the number of abortions, but a larger decrease in the abortion rate than can be attributed to any other program in the US, by virtue of the size that makes it such a target for attacks based on misinformation.

An envelope calculation is sufficient. About half of all pregnancies in the US are unintended and about half of those result in abortion. Enrolling a birth control client reduces the chance of an abortion from nearly 50 percent to a negligible factor, meaning if two out of three Planned Parenthood clients are there for birth control, net abortions are decreased. The actual number is difficult to acquire, but is certainly larger than two out of three, and my conservative estimates place the number around seven out of eight.

I can’t imagine a reputation for dishonesty would be helpful to anyone evangelizing their faith, or advocating for or against a political candidate, but there’s evidence included in the responses to my post in this thread that I could well be mistaken.
 
Well, you are using Guttmacher Institute, that’s Planned Parenthood itself. Or it has been in the past.

As for “Self”, well, that’s just another website, we will see. Anyone can find a webpage that says this or that.

But let’s make sure, those who are expressing the choice argument should also take what that side has done, Planned Parenthood, selling body parts, organ harvesting. I hope anyone who supports this kind of stuff owns up to it. Clinics found more in poorer neighborhoods and so on.


So, this pro-choice position and voting for pro-abortion politicians also means supporting Planned Parenthood and all of this that they are involved in.

Looks like the writer of the Self article is a bit of an activist in this area:

https://www.self.com/contributor/mattie-quinn

I saw other articles on the web by her. So, she writes a hit piece on the CPCs.

It’s not half as bad as the things PP does.
 
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CDC says:

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/emily-ward/blacks-make-134-population-36-abortions

CDC: 36% of Abortions Abort Black Babies​

A lot of these figures are from Planned Parenthood or as in this case, the CDC.

Black Lives Matter, right.
We may be becoming less fertile because of the pill, for a number of reasons.

Another issue is our laws are among the most barbaric, we, Canada, China, North Korea all allow very late term abortions. With the company we keep, I figure there is something seriously wrong with that.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
Does he? What has he done to promote “some” abortions? Another Dem talking point.
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His words… not a talking point - Donald Trump breaks silence on abortion laws
Ridgerunner said:
Then tell us what he has done for them. No generalities, please, real facts. Condemning Trump with Democrat talking points is not helping anybody.
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No talking points… https://www.thenation.com/article/society/federal-executions-barr/
Ridgerunner said:
Supporting the candidate who promotes the evil is supporting the evil.
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So by supporting Trump, by your own logic, you’re supporting ‘evil’
Ridgerunner said:
Not proportionate. The immigrant, the impoverished, the elderly, all live. The aborted are all killed, and on purpose.
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When both candidates support abortion, you have to choose based on the entire spectrum of issues… hence my comment, but when you take it out of context, as you tend to do Ridgerunner, the meaning is lost… rather cheaply I might add
 
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