How can Catholics vote for Joe Biden

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Dracarys:
I am a real estate investor, and President Trump wrongfully allowed CDC to prevent me from currently evicting deadbeat tenants who won’t pay.
No one has really responded to this little item. So I will:

How very pro life of you.

How very Catholic of you.
So am I supposed to sacrifice my livelihood and go bankrupt to prove I am a good Catholic? Penalizing landlords is just one more example of a reactionary lame brain liberal scheme. I won’t be getting rent receipts but I still have to pay principle and interest on my loan, property taxes, property insurance, and since water bills are tacked on to taxes I have to pay for my tenants two hour showers. Thank you CDC!
 
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Harry Blackmun thought that he would settle the abortion issue once and for all with the mish-mash ruling of Roe v Wade. He was wrong. All he did was give new life to the pro-life movement, which had been working mostly at the state legislative level.

But I’m saddened thaat he did accomplish one other thing. By making the execution of unborn children into a constitutional ‘right’ (found newhere in the constitution), the idea was spread that this was now somehow normal, maybe even to be expected.

Now, it seems that even Catholics just can’t get too worked up about a continuing evil in their midst. One drives by or knows the existence of the execution chambers in their cities, but gives it no thought. We’ve adapted to the killing. Consciences have been deadened.

I don’t know why the Democratic Party so quickly adopted abortion as its sine qua non issue. But once it beccame the Party of death I could no longer support it.
 
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Planned Parenthood, selling body parts, organ harvesting.
That’s way beyond the pale, as contemptible as the blood libels hurled against the Jews. The accusation is from a Veritas-linked video later presented to a grand jury in Texas to be used against Planned Parenthood. The grand jury indicted the accusers instead.


Please don’t repeat that story again. It stirs up the crazies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...42b2cc-961e-11e5-8aa0-5d0946560a97_story.html
COLORADO SPRINGS — The gunman suspected of storming a Planned Parenthood clinic and killing a police officer and two others used the phrase “no more baby parts’’ to explain his actions, according to a law enforcement official, a comment likely to further inflame the heated rhetoric surrounding abortion.
 
It is perfectly acceptable to vote in accordance with one single principal as it displays passion for a cause & an honorable one at that. However there are many competing issues, when put together can be easily seen, as out weighing any single issue. This is also perfectly acceptable & honorable, as it only depends on personal perspective & again both ideologies have their positives & negatives.

For anyone to say that it is a crime against humanity or against our religion to vote in one way or the other, is scaremongering & totally wrong. if we as Catholics have found it in our hearts & minds to consciously make any decision (regardless of who we vote) then we stand “true to our very own conviction” When we participate in voting in a fair & evenly competitive race, then we are abiding by our very own moral system of consciousness & laws “whether natural or man made”

We should wish them both well & ultimately accept, that who ever wins is a true & proper reflection for the voice of the majority. We should never forget to respect our fellow citizens with love & open arms, no matter who they voted. After all, in a perfectly legal, robust & freedom seeking democracy, there is always the next election
 
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Why has this turned into “defend Planned Parenthood”?? This was merely from a statement that seemed to come on as being intellectual about how to carry out a pregnancy, now we are stepping up to bat to defend Planned Parenthood?? Did one have these motivations all along?? Then, I will bow out of this, this does not seem to be an earnest attempt at debate. Now, this is mudslinging.

But we know a New York clinic changed their name from having the name of Margaret Sanger:




If one wishes to use their vote to support infanticide or minorities being aborted disproportionately, that is their choice. I however see no reason to continue such a conversation. I will not voting for funding to carry out these procedures in Latin America or Africa either. Planned Parenthood’s pioneer Margaret Sanger even talked to the Klan.
 
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Why has this turned into “defend Planned Parenthood”??
To be simultaneously pro-life and anti-Planned Parenthood is a contradiction.

The underlying argument against Planned Parenthood typically seen from pro-life supporters is that they contribute to the abortion rate. That argument is an exercise in bad arithmetic. As above, if at minimum two out of three clients are there for birth control, the net is negative.

Of the dozen or more times I’ve visited one of their clinics with girlfriends when I was younger and later with nieces or friends of those nieces, not once was it in search of an abortion. Because birth control works. And because they were there because they’d made the choice to plan when to become parents.

I don’t rely on my own experience, and freely acknowledge the actual proportion of birth control clients is not trivial to calculate. It’s certainly not 97 percent, as some of their figures suggest, accurately perhaps but certainly misleadingly, but neither is it less than two out of three, with the immediate corollary that Planned Parenthood, by the measure of reduced pregnancies, is pro-life.

As a math professor, arithmetic is a subconscious process for me. Bad arithmetic stands out, gratingly, like nails across a chalkboard, something that needs to stop before a meaningful conversation can occur.

For Catholics, there is a nuanced argument available against Planned Parenthood. They depress the abortion rate, a positive outcome, by promoting contraception, a negative means, for Catholics, or some proportion of Catholics at any rate.
Jones noted that there has long been data showing that Catholic women are avid users of artificial contraception. The first NSFG survey, which in 1973 was administered only to married women, shows that 66.4 percent of all married Catholic women of child-bearing age at the time used contraception. (Table 17). Among those using birth control, only 8.3 percent relied on rhythm; 2.9 percent relied on withdrawal. (Table 18).
But the argument that the use of contraception negates the value of depressing abortion rates is not the argument I see in these discussions.

What I see is bad arithmetic.

And bad facts, and blood libels, and genetic fallacies, and an insistence that nuance is antithetical to religious tradents who boast, quite rightly, of millennia of devotion to church doctors who would be as adamantly opposed as myself to arguments from bad arithmetic.

Which makes for a fitting closing argument to this thread and this election.

Pro-life Catholics should vote for Joe Biden, and against Donald Trump, because only one of these candidates supports Planned Parenthood.

Do the math.
 
You cannot be serious about supporting Joe Biden precisely because he supports Planned Parenthood.

Oh, your ‘math’ claim (not backed up with any actual figures) is that X number of people who go there don’t get abortions? (I suppose they don’t get contraceptive devices that might be abortifacients either, or counsel on how to deal with STDs they got while pursuing a promiscuous lifestyle itself postulated on divorcing ‘sex’ from ‘parenthood’ to begin with). Even so, one cannot deny that abortions take place at PP.

So, what ‘math’ do you give us where a true good happens at PP that ‘outweighs’ the killing of a baby?

Here, I’ve got a lovely cocktail for you to drink. The ingredients include some lovely and incredibly tasty liquor, spices, natural flavours, but oh, hey, there’s some poison in there too, deadly too.

But not to worry hon! All the good ingredients in the cocktail totally negate that pesky poison!!!
 
For anyone to say that it is a crime against humanity or against our religion to vote in one way or the other, is scaremongering & totally wrong. if we as Catholics have found it in our hearts & minds to consciously make any decision (regardless of who we vote) then we stand “true to our very own conviction” When we participate in voting in a fair & evenly competitive race, then we are abiding by our very own moral system of consciousness & laws “whether natural or man made”
Maybe this would be true if this were a typical election like Bush vs. Clinton, but it’s not. It has been explained many times by me and others that the Biden Harris ticket is so radical they want to codify Roe vs. Wade, pack the courts with liberals, they favor the brutal partial birth abortion, and will make all taxpayers and employers pay for murder of babies. When this all occurs, and it will if Biden is elected, how will you feel about your vote? My conscience is clear because when I vote for President Trump I know he wants to protect the unborn, install judges like Justice Barret, and keep us and our children safe by supporting law and order.
 
As a math professor, arithmetic is a subconscious process for me. Bad arithmetic stands out, gratingly, like nails across a chalkboard, something that needs to stop before a meaningful conversation can occur.

For Catholics, there is a nuanced argument available against Planned Parenthood. They depress the abortion rate, a positive outcome, by promoting contraception, a negative means, for Catholics, or some proportion of Catholics at any rate .
You do know the Church does not support birth control either right? However the MATH actually shows that reliance on contraception increases pregnancy. This has been proven many times in other threads.

The bottom line is that Planned Parenthood DOES perform abortions. Any entity that recommends abortion as an option is evil.
 
So am I supposed to sacrifice my livelihood and go bankrupt to prove I am a good Catholic? Penalizing landlords is just one more example of a reactionary lame brain liberal scheme.
In difficult times like these, suffering is inevitable. The question is how to best share that suffering. Although it is very sad to think of you losing your livelihood, that is happening to others too - in particular, those who rent from you. Without knowing all the details of your situation and the situation of your renters, it is hard to say if evictions are unjust for you or for them. But I would not dismiss their claims out of hand. How much of the hardship do you believe it right for you to share?
 
I am no longer Catholic. The answer to your question is Joe Biden’s position on abortion is not how I ultimately determined who to vote for in this Presidential election. Racism is proportionate to the evil of abortion. I support ACA. I have a pre-existing condition and so do millions of other people. I believe in universal healthcare. I support the Paris Agreement. I support exploring and using alternative fuel. I support gun control. I oppose the NRA. I support DACA and commonsense immigration reform.

Ultimately, I despise the worldview of Donald Trump. He is amoral. He is a Malignant Narcissist and Sociopath. He has grossly mishandled the Covid-19 pandemic. I personally blame him for the deaths of two friends and for the deaths of friends and family of friends. He is a racist, White Supremacist, and White Nationalist sympathizer. I’m Pro-Life, but I refuse to make Faustian bargains with evil to achieve good. When you compromise with Satan be prepared to pay a price. Nothing he gives is free of charge.

*This is my opinion. I’m not debating my position. I’ve done that in the past and been reported for violating CAF rules. This is my answer to your question. Have a great day!
 
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I’m Pro-Life, but I refuse to make Faustian bargains with evil to achieve good. When you compromise with Satan be prepared to pay a price. Nothing he gives is free of charge.
Another thing I want to add to this. If I had a reasonable hope that a Trump win could actually bring about the end of abortion, then I would vote for him without hesitation. But abortion is all but guaranteed to still be with us for the nest four years regardless of who wins. Take that evil PLUS all the additional evils and deaths glencor63 speaks of and it will be all the more difficult to get pro-life candidates elected afterwards.
 
Great reasoning, well, in America, we should not even need discuss Infanticide but we are.


Oh, yes, the things Trump has done, how naughty.

Yes, what’s a little infanticide here and there.

Id’ like to thank the President for invoking the Mexico City Policy, defunding Planned Parenthood abortions overseas, in all likelihood, a good possibility of saving life in Africa and Centra America/Caribbean but if one must find faults with people, go head.
 
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He is a racist, White Supremacist, and White Nationalist sympathizer
That’s not a very nice thing to say.
I ask that you back up such a bold statement with some actual facts. I bet you can’t.

Here are some facts:
  • permanently increased federal funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities by more than any President in history. In last couple years, funding increased by more than $100 million, a 17% increase
  • Trump received the Bipartisan Justice Award at a historically black college for his criminal justice reform accomplishments, like Trump’s First Step Act, in which 91% of the total inmates released have been Black American
  • increased funding for school choice by $42 million and has called on Congress to pass school choice legislation so no child is trapped in failing school as a result of their zip
  • Opportunity Zones that incentivized private investment into marginalized communities
  • In 2018, 2019 and the first couple months of 2020 (before state Governors started shutting down businesses), African-Americans and Hispanics were enjoying their lowest unemployment rate, and highest median income in history, largely due to President Trump’s policies.
  • President Trump supports funding for police, as 81% of Blacks want an increased police presence, despite leftist media’s misleading reporting
 
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You are not dragging me into a back and forth debate about the merits of Donald Trump. I only respond to your challenge to defend and uphold the dignity of my people and ancestors. The vast majority of African Americans are not impressed with Donald Trump’s measly bones thrown to placate us, so he can remain in power! It is his responsibility to prove to us that he is not a racist. He has proven otherwise! Out of the heart, the mouth speaks! He has a dark heart. Here are two articles detailing the state of his heart over the decades. Have a good day!

 
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I know he wants to protect the unborn,
Neither are innocent in this regard, the leader of the Republicans stated, he is pro-life with caveats & again the only answer is not to ban, but to punish, he still advocates for abortions up to 20 weeks.

We spoke about consciousness earlier & as I said we all make a decision on who to vote in many different ways. It is important to recognize that people also believe, there are many competing issues & when put together can be easily seen, as out weighing any single issue.

Regardless of how one votes it is always done with conscious in mind, because all strategies when voting are a mixture of single items or a basket of many. Either way, these methods are perfectly acceptable to ones conscious.
 
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If I had a reasonable hope that a Trump win could actually bring about the end of abortion, then I would vote for him without hesitation. But abortion is all but guaranteed to still be with us for the nest four years regardless of who wins
They could make it the law of the land similar to murder and it wouldn’t stop it. The act is committed in the mind long before the clinic. Until Our Lord removes free will from the human heart and until the necessities that make the choice attractive are available such as health care before, during and after for mother and child, and the ability to continue an education that isn’t thwarted solely due to finances, housing, and the basics…it will continue, unfortunately.

True Pro-life extends to ones natural death, an idea that isn’t spoken of amongst many.
 
Biden? No thanks.




And how about all that about Biden’s racism??

Trump’s a Saint in comparison, helped protect Catholics in the Middle East.
You are not dragging me into a back and forth debate about the merits of Donald Trump. I only respond to your challenge to defend and uphold the dignity of my people and ancestors. The vast majority of African Americans are not impressed with Donald Trump’s measly bones thrown to placate us, so he can remain in power! It is his responsibility to prove to us that he is not a racist. He has proven otherwise! Out of the heart, the mouth speaks! He has a dark heart. Here are two articles detailing the state of his heart over the decades. Have a good day!
You are you, Leo Terrel, Larry Elder are others. They don’t agree with you.

Yeah, be happy with the inner cities, some burning, that’s what the Democrats have deilivered.

Planned Parenthood and a third of all abortions are of African Americans. Yes, I guess, if you want to represent your people to vote Democrat, have at it.

I guess Maxine Waters represents black people too, so we should listen to her,

Or is it Lil Wayne?


Yeah, that’s it, I’ll listen to what Lil’ Wayne says, or Ice Cube. You don’t have a monopoly on representing a minority.

So, can any of us claim to represent our whole race now?
 
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