How can Catholics vote for Joe Biden

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HarryStotle:
Are there other “murderous regimes” you want to identify? Taiwan, maybe?
I don’t think anyone is suggesting Taiwan is a murderous regime. This is one possible example of more good than harm, but in contrast there are just as many transactions that cause more harm than good.
Your sarcasm detector appears to be broken.
 
It’s not “exactly right.” It isn’t even in the same ballpark.

The fact that it has been repeated “several times by different people” including you is no more going to make it true
Is this just you being sarcastic again 😉 because, it is exactly the same as the deer in the headlights pointed out earlier 😁
is that it may be the lesser of both evils.
However what is being missed is that many people believe it is one grave issue in the same basket of several grave issues.
 
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I think ANYONE voting for Joe Biden is voting AGAINST Trump.
That is probably a common element, though I would not say it is universal. Last time, I do not doubt a lot of people voted for Trump because he wasn’t Hillary Clinton. There is always some element of this.
 
I like math, but the ‘bad math’ here is yours.
I’m perfectly capable of arithmetic errors, as my students will attest, the difference being that when they’re pointed out, I correct them, a policy I not only model for my students, but recommend for others.
You don’t say, for example, that because a certain orthopaedic clinic has some excellent surgical results in its patients, but deliberately kills some of its others without their consent, that the clinic ‘is an excellent clinic’, now do you? Even if your contention was that perhaps (you never DID give us the figures, did you?) more people lived, even ‘lived with better quality of life’ than people died, the fact is that people who would have otherwise lived were deliberately killed without their personal consent.
There’s a reasonable argument that the services provided by Planned Parenthood would be more effective at stemming abortions if they didn’t provide abortions, or especially in urban settings, did not provide referrals for abortions. I might add that Crisis Pregnancy Centers do not typically provide access to contraceptives.

That argument is not advanced by hyperbolic statements about killing others without their consent, which, if true, would be clearly illegal by current law. So is murder, another common refrain repeatedly advanced for decades with an equal lack of effect and lack of basic honesty, as might otherwise be expected from those arguing for a perceived moral imperative.

Without contraceptives, the typical sexually active woman has an 85 percent chance of becoming pregnant in any year, not 50 percent as provided in the thumb rule, meaning the break even for net reduction is not two contraceptive clients for every abortion clients, but 1.2 contraceptive clients.

Moreover, because abortion clients at Planned Parenthood are also provided counseling and access to contraceptives, there’s a further net reduction not reflected in these thumb rule estimates.

Currently, 18 percent of pregnancies in the US are aborted, not counting miscarriages, almost all of which stem from unintended pregnancies, almost all of which can be prevented by timely delivery of birth control.

Unplanned parenthood is the proximal and most easily counteracted cause of abortion.

Yes, as I’ve previously stipulated, I understand the Catholic church opposes most forms of contraception. The Catholic church also opposes abortion. It would be interesting to me to hear how these conflicting goals are mediated. It would not be interesting to me to hear they are brushed aside by a failure to do the arithmetic, or worse, to assert the arithmetic is not valid.
 
Yes, false or exaggerated as has been demonstrated repeatedly by many actually independent organizations and individuals. But whatever, it will be over with shortly, regardless of the outcome of this day.
 
That would be because you appear to misunderstand that abortion in the context of the pro-life argument doesn’t mean when the fertilized eggs are not viable or the expulsion is beyond the control of any human being. So the intentional killing of a person is no more or no less wrong or morally significant than the natural death of a person? That is how you think the moral issue of abortion is to be resolved?
To be clear, I advocate for reducing the abortion rate by appeal to arguments that transcend morality, such as the validity of arithmetic, recognizing that in other instances people of good conscience can disagree on when personhood or the oft-cited ephemeral soul might be imbued into a fertilized ovum.

Thank you for your thoughts.
 
Biden has changed his mind on almost EVERY position.
Wow. So we have a candidate who is willing to reevaluate his stand as new information comes up, and admit when he was wrong before. I see this as a positive trait. I know that there are a large number of things I believed and advocated when I was 15 (47 years ago) that I would be ashamed to admit now.
 
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HarryStotle:
It’s not “exactly right.” It isn’t even in the same ballpark.

The fact that it has been repeated “several times by different people” including you is no more going to make it true
Is this just you being sarcastic again 😉 because, it is exactly the same as the deer in the headlights pointed out earlier 😁
is that it may be the lesser of both evils.
However what is being missed is that many people believe it is one grave issue in the same basket of several grave issues.
Believing something and properly justifying that belief are two different things.

Believing something and justifying that belief on the basis that “that many people believe it” is, to put it mildly, irrational. Many people believe all kinds of nonsensical stuff, so citing “many people” is like dropping the requirement for justification completely.

Something like: I am correct because arithmetic.
 
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I am going to the polls now to vote for President Trump. I sincerely hope everyone who supports Biden will suspend any offense or animosity they feel for me or anyone else on this thread. Look at your conscience and decide to do the right thing. A vote for President Trump protects the unborn, grows the economy, increases opportunity, and keeps you and your family safe through law and order. God bless all of you!
 
This has already been addressed and I’ve commented on it before, but… since we’re discussing it again, no, it’s not a good idea for Catholics to vote for Biden. Period. Or any other pro-choice candidate.
 
“Racial division”

Now that you brought up the issue, do you care to specifically identify proof of anything damaging that was said or done to promote “racism?”

Or, are you merely repeating a talking that has absolutely no basis in fact?
 
What does a Catholic “single issue” voter say to their Catholic counterparts that vote on the sum of competing issues, when put together, can be easily seen as out weighing any single issue?
Why are you assuming that everyone who does not see it your way is a “single issue” voter?

Is it impossible for you to consider that a majority of those voting for Trump or against Biden are not doing so on the basis of a single issue?

There goes that broad blurry brush again.
 
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“Proof” is a word with no meaning in the context of politics or most social sciences.
 
They’re either ignorant or are not conforming to Church teaching
 
That sword cuts both ways.
Have you ever seen anything that you believe to be definitive, video or audio, thinking it proof, only to have someone deny what they hear, or see? I believe it best just to present evidence and not try and defend it in such cases, learning that what I think is proof, really isn’t. Even really good evidence is just evidence in almost every situation.
 
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HarryStotle:
That sword cuts both ways.
Have you ever seen anything that you believe to be definitive, video or audio, thinking it proof, only to have someone deny what they hear, or see? I believe it best just to present evidence and not try and defend it in such cases, learning that what I think is proof, really isn’t. Even really good evidence is just evidence in almost every situation.
I understand what you are getting at. Teaching a basic math concept to a young child is often contingent on readiness. There is no point in pushing a self-evident and basic math truth if the individual doesn’t have the requisite cognitive capacity to get it.

However, sometimes asking leading questions and exploring what the child does grasp can indicate whether the lack of readiness is a developmental issue or merely one of missing skill acquisition.

I suppose a similar approach could work with adults - i.e., not to directly push up against the inability to see what is obvious but to back up and use some indirect method to figure out if there is a missing bit of understanding or a misinformed impression in the cognitive scaffolding.
 
Believing something and justifying that belief on the basis that “that many people believe it”
When we look at a blue painting & believe it is blue it comes from the acknowledgement that we are not color blind. As for those that are color blind it would be different & in the case of a condition or matter of perspective it would also be nonsensical.

I like your argument but am not so rigid to only be guided by the math, as eyes, experience, knowledge & relativity are also a big part of that equation.
 
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Why are you assuming that everyone who does not see it your way is a “single issue” voter?
The assumption is not mine, as it is hard to deny the suggestion that if we are passionate about a single issue & vote according to the one prospect, then there is a contrast of other voters who make their selection on several factors. This is not to forget everyone else in between as I only highlight the 2 ends of one large spectrum.
Is it impossible for you to consider that a majority of those voting for Trump or against Biden are not doing so on the basis of a single issue?
Nobody said majority, but yes i would agree that it is difficult to tell what strategy anyone would use when voting.
Sounds like the earlier statement “Many people believe all kinds of nonsensical stuff, so citing “many people” is like dropping the requirement for justification completely”

Again that is your view of “justification completely” not mine
 
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HarryStotle:
Believing something and justifying that belief on the basis that “that many people believe it”
When we look at a blue painting & believe it is blue it comes from the acknowledgement that we are not color blind. As for those that are color blind it would be different & in the case of a condition or matter of perspective it would also be nonsensical.

I like your argument but am not so rigid to only be guided by the math, as eyes, experience, knowledge & relativity are also a big part of that equation.
No it comes from the acknowledgement that certain wavelengths of light are reflected from the painting. That can be independently verified. Properly functioning eyes merely accurately depict that reality.

Not subjective at all, because the determination is ultimately based in objective reality, no matter how many people believe otherwise.
 
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