How can people say homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone

[Prodigal_Son]

The penitent and the unrepentant are not equal. Stop pretending that they are.

What does that have to do with glee?

 

[davidv]

What truth would that be?

Is your real name Pilate?

What does the Catechism say is the inherent dignity of every person?
What does that mean it terms how we are to treat them?

 

[BrassAnkles]

Another red herring. I never said SSA was normal.

How do I defend SSA? I say it is a fallen inclination that can only produce ANY good results because of God’s grace, but that is – in itself – bad. I agree 100% with the Church that the attraction to a same-sex sexual relationship is a “more or less strong tendency directed toward an intrinsic moral evil”.

The sign of a Pelagian is this: whenever someone says they continue to struggle, this is blamed on the struggler. It’s the prosperity gospel, and it has been roundly and repeatedly condemned by the Catholic Church.

If you are right, my friend, then the Church has been wrong ever since Augustine.

Your association could possibly be valid if it weren’t for one point - those who struggle say that homosexual inclinations are natural and have nothing bad about them. Many here even promote homosexual relations as good.

 

[BrassAnkles]

“Homosexual people are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever sufferings and difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross.”

Agree or disagree?

They must pray and reach “Christian perfection” which of course does not included having disorders like SSA, agree?

 

[BrassAnkles]

Why do you think that the work of a gay researcher is unreliable and automatically biased? Would a heterosexual researcher who says that only heterosexual people make good parents be more reliable and be unbiased? Wouldn’t a heterosexual researcher who made such a claim about heterosexual parents be biased because he’s heterosexual?** No one, of course, would make such a ridiculous claim.**

Oops, you did:

**Dr. Whitehead is not a reputable scientist and most of what he has published does not appear in peer reviewed journals. **His book, My Genes Made Me Do It, is not published by a well known publisher but is free to download or for a printed copy can only be purchased using PayPal. It looks like much of his research appears in places such the Journal of Human Sexuality, a publication produced by the National Association for the Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) and the NARTH Bulletin.

 

[cena]

They must pray and reach “Christian perfection” which of course does not included having disorders like SSA, agree?

Well some people can not just get rid of the disorder, but they can treat it like any other temptation and ignore it. Part of the Christian life is not indulging in lustful actions or thoughts concerning this matter.

For example, if someone was an alcoholic they will probably always crave alcohol. They probably can not remove the temptation. The key is to not give in to the temptation.

 

[Ositokc]

Well some people can not just get rid of the disorder, but they can treat it like any other temptation and ignore it. Part of the Christian life is not indulging in lustful actions or thoughts concerning this matter.

For example, if someone was an alcoholic they will probably always crave alcohol. They probably can not remove the temptation. The key is to not give in to the temptation.

Alcoholism is a disease.
Homosexuality is NOT a disease.

Attaining “Christian Perfection” might not be the goal for someone who is…you know, not Christian.

I think trying to attain “Love your neighbor as yourself” perfection should be the goal for all humanity.

 

[cena]

Alcoholism is a disease.
Homosexuality is NOT a disease.

Attaining “Christian Perfection” might not be the goal for someone who is…you know, not Christian.

I think trying to attain “Love your neighbor as yourself” perfection should be the goal for all humanity.

Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental disorder until the gay community pressured the American Psychology organization (I don’t know the exact name of it) to take it off. I do not remember what position you have on this issue but I hope in loving your neighbor you are not saying it is absolutely okay to engage in this behavior just because they are not Christian.

Loving your neighbor does not mean blindly agreeing with everything they do. If my family member was a kleptomaniac I would not blindly agree with it because “it makes them happy.” Stealing is wrong.

 

[Thorolfr]

Oops, you did:

I’ve never implied that Dr. Whitehead is unreliable because he’s straight.

 

[BrassAnkles]

I’ve never implied that Dr. Whitehead is unreliable because he’s straight.

Conspicuously, the only ones who claim Dr. Whitehead is unreliable are those that believe that SSA is innate/natural.

 

[BrassAnkles]

Another reason homosexuality destroys society from within is by undermining fellowship as people are afraid of physical displays of affection between two persons due to the possibility of a homosexual component. In fact this fear also drives the increasing abrasiveness seen between members of society and conspicuously this happens in areas of high concentration of homosexuals, like NYC.

On the contrary where homosexuality has not been embraced to such a level in other societies a hug between two men is considered normal because no one is worried the other person is homosexual. Latin America is a perfect example, but of course even there thing are changing due to the US gov’t., the UN and our music and movie industry doing everything possible to promote homosexuality.

This destruction of camaraderie has another real negative effect in that the persons that are in the need of social contact, ie social misfits, are the ones who actually be avoided at all costs which of course worsens their condition. It is no wonder the US has an epedimic of persons on anti depressants and indiscriminate crime where mentally ill persons kill others for little reason other than they felt isolated from society.

 

[sallybutler]

In either situation a child does not have a father or a mother. What about the children with two parents of the same sex (I.e. Two men) who are longing to have a mother like their friends at school do? We should not try to bring this on purpose. Also, lesbian mothers probably won’t know how to protect their daughters from getting in trouble with boys

I hate the argument about parents. I find it to be a specious argument.

How many daughters with a female mother and male father get in trouble with boys? How many children wish their female mother would act like the female mother down the street (just about all of them, or so you would think when you tell them they can’t do something)? How many children raised by a female mother and a male father end up gay (try all 99% of LGBT had straight parents)?

Yes, a female mother and a male father would be best. Providing that they are good people who want to raise good children. Gender, unfortunately, does not guarantee this. I think it is better to keep it out of the discussion, as one could find many cases of heterosexual parents that hurt children.

 

[BrassAnkles]

I think it is better to keep it out of the discussion, as one could find many cases of heterosexual parents that hurt children.

If you didn’t know this the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual unions hurt children and that God created men and women together in marriage as the only authentic family. As Catholics we should submit to the Church and promote Catholic values.

 

[Thorolfr]

Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental disorder until the gay community pressured the American Psychology organization (I don’t know the exact name of it) to take it off.

Changes get made to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) all the time. Did you know, for example, that in the newest edition, they’ve added regular grief that someone might experience at the loss of a loved one and have categorized it as a Major Depressive Disorder. They’ve also changed the diagnosing criteria to make it easier to be diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. They will now treat the kinds of temper tantrums that some children have as a Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder. Asperger’s Syndrome has been removed from the DSM and reclassified as a kind of Autism. The new edition has eliminated 5 of the ten personality disorders that were in the old edition, includidng Narcissistic Personality Disorder

All these changes in the DSM do not happen in a vacuum or always because of science. They often happen because of pressure from outside interest groups, including drug companies.

Personally, I don’t have a very good opinion of psychiatry. You should try reading, for example, the book Unhinged: The Trouble with Psychiatry - A Doctor’s Revelations about a Profession in Crisis by Dr. Daniel Carlat, a professor at Tufts Medical School. According to the blurb at Amazon:

psychiatrist Daniel Carlat exposes deeply disturbing problems plaguing his profession, revealing the ways it has abandoned its essential purpose: to understand the mind, so that psychiatrists can heal mental illness and not just treat symptoms. As he did in his hard-hitting and widely read New York Times Magazine article “Dr. Drug Rep,” and as he continues to do in his popular watchdog newsletter, The Carlat Psychiatry Report, he writes with bracing honesty about how psychiatry has so largely forsaken the practice of talk therapy for the seductive—and more lucrative—practice of simply prescribing drugs, with a host of deeply troubling consequences.

Psychiatrists have settled for treating symptoms rather than causes, embracing the apparent medical rigor of DSM diagnoses and prescription in place of learning the more challenging craft of therapeutic counseling, gaining only limited understanding of their patients’ lives. Talk therapy takes time, whereas the fifteen-minute “med check” allows for more patients and more insurance company reimbursement. Yet DSM diagnoses, he shows, are premised on a good deal less science than we would think.

amazon.com/Unhinged-Trouble-Psychiatry-Revelations-Profession-ebook/dp/B003JH86FW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1419011418&sr=8-4&keywords=unhinged&pebp=1419011427125

Or try reading Robert Whitaker’s Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America:

In this astonishing and startling book, award-winning science and history writer Robert Whitaker investigates a medical mystery: Why has the number of disabled mentally ill in the United States tripled over the past two decades? Every day, 1,100 adults and children are added to the government disability rolls because they have become newly disabled by mental illness, with this epidemic spreading most rapidly among our nation’s children. What is going on?

amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing/dp/0307452425/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419011842&sr=8-1&keywords=anatomy+of+an+epidemic

Thank goodness homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder. Otherwise, gay people would probably still be subjected to electroshock treatments or aversion therapy or be put on psychiatric drugs of some sort.

 

[cena]

I hate the argument about parents. I find it to be a specious argument.

How many daughters with a female mother and male father get in trouble with boys? How many children wish their female mother would act like the female mother down the street (just about all of them, or so you would think when you tell them they can’t do something)? How many children raised by a female mother and a male father end up gay (try all 99% of LGBT had straight parents)?

Yes, a female mother and a male father would be best. Providing that they are good people who want to raise good children. Gender, unfortunately, does not guarantee this. I think it is better to keep it out of the discussion, as one could find many cases of heterosexual parents that hurt children.

The concept of having two mothers and no father gives the greatest risk of that happening. That does not mean it does not happen in other circumstances, but the chances of that happening are lower.
Also, complaing about parent acting someway is different than complaining the absence of a parent. A child telling two homosexuals that they wish they had a father or a mother is different than complaining about their curfew.

 

[cena]

Changes get made to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) all the time. Did you know, for example, that in the newest edition, they’ve added regular grief that someone might experience at the loss of a loved one and have categorized it as a Major Depressive Disorder. They’ve also changed the diagnosing criteria to make it easier to be diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. They will now treat the kinds of temper tantrums that some children have as a Disruptive Mood Dysregulation Disorder. Asperger’s Syndrome has been removed from the DSM and reclassified as a kind of Autism. The new edition has eliminated 5 of the ten personality disorders that were in the old edition, includidng Narcissistic Personality Disorder

All these changes in the DSM do not happen in a vacuum or always because of science. They often happen because of pressure from outside interest groups, including drug companies.

Personally, I don’t have a very good opinion of psychiatry. You should try reading, for example, the book Unhinged: The Trouble with Psychiatry - A Doctor’s Revelations about a Profession in Crisis by Dr. Daniel Carlat, a professor at Tufts Medical School. According to the blurb at Amazon:

amazon.com/Unhinged-Trouble-Psychiatry-Revelations-Profession-ebook/dp/B003JH86FW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1419011418&sr=8-4&keywords=unhinged&pebp=1419011427125

Or try reading Robert Whitaker’s Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America:

amazon.com/Anatomy-Epidemic-Bullets-Psychiatric-Astonishing/dp/0307452425/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419011842&sr=8-1&keywords=anatomy+of+an+epidemic

Thank goodness homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder. Otherwise, gay people would probably still be subjected to electroshock treatments or aversion therapy or be put on psychiatric drugs of some sort.

How did they use to treat it? I doubt they used electric shock. Isn’t depression a mental disorder? I doubt they use electric shock for that.

I do not know what aversion therapy is but embracing the homosexual lifestyle or actions associated would be wrong.

 

[Catholic13]

Is your real name Pilate?

What does the Catechism say is the inherent dignity of every person?
What does that mean it terms how we are to treat them?

You tell me please, so I know exactly what you’re saying.

 

[sallybutler]

The concept of having two mothers and no father gives the greatest risk of that happening. That does not mean it does not happen in other circumstances, but the chances of that happening are lower.
Also, complaing about parent acting someway is different than complaining the absence of a parent. A child telling two homosexuals that they wish they had a father or a mother is different than complaining about their curfew.

You and brass ankles missed my point.

Up until recently, 99% of LGBT people were the product of one mother and one father. Therefore, straight people create deviant LGBT people. How do you propose fixing that?

 

[Thorolfr]

How did they use to treat it? I doubt they used electric shock. Isn’t depression a mental disorder? I doubt they use electric shock for that.

I do not know what aversion therapy is but embracing the homosexual lifestyle or actions associated would be wrong.

Here’s part of a paper presented at the 1970 meeting of the American Psychiatric Association by Dr. Nathaniel McConaghy at a program called “Issues on Sexuality” in which he expained his research in trying to wean homosexual men from their attractions to other men:

With apomorphine therapy, the patient was given injections of of apomorphine after which he viewed slides of naked males while experiencing the resultant nausea. With aversion-relief, the patient received painful electric shocks after reading aloud phrases describing aspects of homosexual behavior. Following a series of shocks, he read aloud a phrase describing an aspect of heterosexual behavior, and this was not followed by a shock…

One group that made particular use of the aversion therapy technique of pornographic pictures and electric shocks to try and change the sexual orientation of gay men was the Association for the Advancement of Behavior Therapy.

Ronald Gold, one of the gay demonstrators who convinced the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders had himself been sent to psychiatrists from the age of 13. From the age of 24, he spent 18 months as a hospital patient and then another three and a half years as an outpatient at the Menninger Clinic in Kansas to try and be “cured” of his homosexuality. Bu they failed to “cure” him of his homosexuality.

 

[cena]

[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

You and brass ankles missed my point.

Up until recently, 99% of LGBT people were the product of one mother and one father. Therefore, straight people create deviant LGBT people. How do you propose fixing that?

Well firstly someone who is raised by two same sex parents is way more likely to identify as lgbt. This is logical since that person is raised into believing this is the way things. So it is not like it is just straight people who are causing it. It is not like the couple made the person lgbt. Maybe they did not spend enough time with them, or they did not get enough masculinity or feminity that they needed so they look for it in members of the same sex.

If you apply your claim to other problems it does not make sense. There are teens who do drugs and alcohol did the parents create deviant drug addicts and alcoholics?