How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic?

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JacobF said:
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LeafByNiggle:
JacobF:
Say one priest was teaching that Mary was the 4th person in the Trinity. Other priests would definitely have the duty to call that out as heresy.
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In that case there would be no need for some other priest to call that out as a heresy, because the Magesterium would do that immediately.
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You could hope for that, but it might not be true. For one thing the Magisterium may not be aware of it for a while and the local ordinary may be in support of it himself for some reason.
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The local Bishop would certainly be aware of it. It is unthinkable that a heresy by someone as well-known as Fr. James Martin would not be recognized by his Bishop.
 
(I know things but if I tell you then “they” will attack me.)

Forgive me if I take that with a large block of salt. You asserted it, it is up to you to support it.

Also consider that what you see as heresy may not seen as heresy by the Magisterium. But it is the opinion of the Magisterium that is definitive, not yours or any priest’s.
 
That is easy, let your feeling guide your decision making. You are the perfect Democrat/liberal/statist/this list can go on and on and on. But you are not for a decentralized take self responsibility for your actions voter.
 
StudentMI said:
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Ridgerunner:
Well-formed includes knowing and following the teachings of the Church, not ignoring them or inventing rationalizations why we don’t follow them.
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So now I’m ignoring or rationalizing? Nice.

And why bring up the Democrats? I didn’t say I was voting for them.
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He was responding more in general, I think, and what he said was basically what the Church has said. The problem arises when the same premise leads people in different directions.
 
I believe it was quite clearly stated that a person could proclaim heresy before being definitively charged with same; examples given including Martin Luther who was a Catholic priest in ‘good standing’ when he started to rumble forth with statements which became openly heretical.

That means that if he made a statement A before he was found to be a material heretic by the judgment of the Church, and then he made the same statement A AFTER the judgment of the Church, the statements were equally heretical (before and after) but the status of the person making those statements ‘changed’.

IOW, you don’t have to be judged canonically as a heretic to make heretical statements.

Hopefully if a person does make a heretical statement he is ‘called out on it’ in order to give him the chance to change and renounce those statements so that he returns ‘to the fold’ and won’t have to be brought up on the charge of heresy to start with. Heretical statements which are recanted by the speaker become errors which the speaker has corrected.
 
Even if one is not disturbed by the number and spread of accusations leveled by Fr. Altman, his opinions on voting Democratic are his own and not binding on anyone else.
 
I was addressing your statement to (name removed by moderator) about ‘several bishops called Jimmy out’ to which you responded, “have they called him a heretic? I would like to see where that was stated’.

I said nothing about Fr. Altman etc. Etc. I was simply addressing the concept regarding ‘calling someone a heretic’ as if only with that judgment could there be any discussion on heretical statements.
 
Acceptance of abortion has not only embedded itself firmly into the Democratic Party; it has embedded itself into the culture, even among many Catholics. The Church had condemned abortion for 2,000 years, but now we think we know better. Acceptance of abortion is embedded into the sexual revolution in its entirety. It is an affirmation of the idea that “I am entitled to sex without procreation any time I want, even if children have to be killed.” This is the idea that lies at the heart of the “abortion liberty.”
 
LeafByNiggle said:
That is clearly not true. If hearts and minds are changed, more women will not want abortions, and so fewer abortions will be performed.
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How is it that the democratic party is going to change hearts and minds so more women will not want abortions?
Shakuhachi said:
Can one belong to any party without accepting all the planks?
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No not really. Even the politicians in the party find it difficult to be in the party without accepting all the planks.
christofirst said:
It’s settled then. We can vote Democratic and also be Catholic.
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Who settled it because I certainly disagree with that as do many others but if you do not like the thread you can mute it.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
How is it that the democratic party is going to change hearts and minds so more women will not want abortions?
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It’s a matter of evangelizing the culture. If we can’t defeat it in the courts let it be in the culture.
MagdalenaRita said:
Who settled it because I certainly disagree with that as do many others but if you do not like the thread you can mute it.
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The Church has said for proportionate reasons one can vote for such a party. It said nothing about who judges whether those reasons are correct or not according to some ultimate criteria. I expect they also don’t expect the laity to do the job for them.
 
JacobF said:
I don’t know if it’s already been posted on this thread, but Fr. Altman discusses this very issue:
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Awesome video. He is very courageous.

I’ll share this one again:


and a pretty good interview here also:


and another short but powerful one:


No, you can not be Catholic and vote democrat.
 
It seems the Democratic Party is always working to change hearts and minds–in favor of abortion. But I cast my first vote in 1960 and there were no pro-abortion Democrats–at least none that advertised the fact.
 
StudentMI said:
It’s a matter of evangelizing the culture. If we can’t defeat it in the courts let it be in the culture.
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I understand that is a possibility but that would mean that Catholics would need to show that they do NOT support abortion and will not vote for a party that supports and encourages it.
The democratic party will not change the culture for good. It has not done that for years. Abortion is not the only issue of Catholicism that the Democratic party pushes against.
StudentMI said:
Except the Church has spoken on the issue and disagrees.
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The Church has never specifically made a declaration regarding the United States Democratic party. It has only given guidelines on voting your conscience and consciences must be formed by Catholic teaching.

I am so surprised by how many Catholics support the democratic party, who has spoken so clearly out against the Catholic church. That is like being bullied in the school yard and voting the bully in as the school yard leader.
 
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I’m pro-choice so make of that what you will.

I think that if you a running for election as Commander in Chief of the worlds largest economic and military power, you should probably have a policy platform. If you go with, no platform but we support DJT, then what you have is a cult of personality. That is extremely dangerous, the US is on the brink of a prolonged domestic terrorism problem, and the Oval Office is fanning the flames. The US needed actual leadership yesterday, government by tweet is failing badly.
 
I appreciate your saying that (again). I know it doesn’t mean you agree with the Democratic platform, based on your previous posts, but you do acknowledge that the Church indeed allows such a vote, based on the US bishops’ Faithful Citizenship guidelines. Many here apparently can’t tell the difference between what is allowed under certain conditions and a wholehearted endorsement.
 
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