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Rau
Guest
If Roe v Wade went away, does that prevent legislatures legalizing abortion?
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Rau
Guest
To which right of women are you referring?
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Rau
Guest
The decision to support a government policy is a prudential judgement. It involves weighing whether the policy implemented will likely do more harm than good. While it is indisputable that abortion is bad, it does not follow that any all possible government policy with the aim of ending abortion should be supported.TMC:
Because that would be working with those who enable such things. It would be morally wrong.
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Rau
Guest
Typo, replace “sin“ with “aim”.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It is very low in either case.LeafByNiggle:
That likelihood depends on who is elected president and who controls the Senate.
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Annie
Guest
No, but Roe currently prevents most laws which limit abortion.
@LeafByNiggle
If laws could be discussed on the state level, education could occur.
@LeafByNiggle
If laws could be discussed on the state level, education could occur.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Got it. Yes I agree. If there were a law that brought greater evil or harm while trying to stop abortion, yes it would not be supported. I don’t see that happening right now.
Can you provide details of how the U.S. is going extinct?
Can you provide Catholic teaching that in some way states that believing a country is going out of existence outweighs saving lives.
The prolife movement has been trying to convince people of this for years. The way to show that it is wrong is to make it illegal, showing that it is evil. Education could always be provided as to why it should be illegal, but that is happening and has been happening. Too man people are turning a deaf ear and a blind eye to what they are being told.
It is also difficult to convince people something is wrong while yet allowing it legally.
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farronwolf
New member
Aee you suggesting that trump now sits on the supreme court.
Do you anticipate the court reversing this ruling.
Trump had and will have nothing to do with scotus rulings.
Do you anticipate the court reversing this ruling.
Trump had and will have nothing to do with scotus rulings.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Not sure where I said that??
From the article: Following an initial 2016 appeal to the Supreme Court, in 2017, the Trump administration granted a religious and moral exemption to the mandate for the sisters and other objecting groups.
and words from the Little Sisters:
“Today we are grateful for the President’s order and look forward to the agencies giving us an exemption so that we can continue caring for the elderly poor and dying as if they were Christ himself without the fear of government punishment,”
I’m also just showing what Mr. Biden said he plans on doing.
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JimG
Guest
From a recent dissent by Justice Clarence Thomas on a Louisiana abortion case:
“Today a majority of the Court perpetuates its ill-founded abortion jurisprudence by enjoining a perfectly legitimate state law and doing so without jurisdiction. … The plurality and the Chief Justice ultimately cast aside this jurisdictional barrier to conclude that Louisiana’s law is unconstitutional under our precedents. But those decisions created the right to abortion out of whole cloth, without a shred of support from the Constitution’s text. Our abortion precedents are grievously wrong and should be overruled. Because we have neither jurisdiction nor constitutional authority to declare Louisiana’s duly enacted law unconstitutional, I respectfully dissent.”
“Today a majority of the Court perpetuates its ill-founded abortion jurisprudence by enjoining a perfectly legitimate state law and doing so without jurisdiction. … The plurality and the Chief Justice ultimately cast aside this jurisdictional barrier to conclude that Louisiana’s law is unconstitutional under our precedents. But those decisions created the right to abortion out of whole cloth, without a shred of support from the Constitution’s text. Our abortion precedents are grievously wrong and should be overruled. Because we have neither jurisdiction nor constitutional authority to declare Louisiana’s duly enacted law unconstitutional, I respectfully dissent.”
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Rau
Guest
That’s true. But would you agree that a major re-positioning of the law - making it illegal, closing down all abortion procedures in legal institutions, no positive support frameworks and prosecuting women/doctors for murder is likely to have very serious consequences? Thus, would you agree a multi-pronged and slow change is all that could conceivably make things better?
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
That is difficult to say I agree because I don’t see a reason why at the same time making it illegal there couldn’t be a setting up of positive support frameworks. There are already many support frameworks out there to help women with an unwanted pregnancy.
that would happen if they choose to obey the law after it is made illegal. I don’t believe they could be prosecuted for something they did while it was legal at the time.
No, I believe a well educated change is what will make things better.
Women who support abortion and promote my body, my choice will not like it whether it is a slow change or not.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Education can start right now. We don’t have to wait for Roe to be overturned.
Not extinct, but it could go the way of Italy in the 1930’s.
I don’t need to because saving lives is not the alternative. The alternative is lower taxes and less regulation. Saving lives is actually not an available and guaranteed choice. It is only a promise.
We should be showing not only that it is evil but that it is also unattractive and unnecessary to whatever end women may think it is unnecessary.
Education to avoid evil and turn to the good is not very effective without actual support of the good.
We don’t have to convince everybody. We just have to convince most people. Consider the issue of robbing banks. There are a very few people who want to rob banks. Most people agree that robbing banks is evil. So having very strict laws against robbing banks is very easy to accomplish. Conversely, consider the sale and consumption of alcohol. Most people do not want to make those acts illegal. Yet they were made illegal for a while. But people did not comply because the majority really didn’t support it. Abortion has been illegal in the past. That alone did not stop women from seeking abortion. Unless those minds are changed, merely making it illegal now could result in the same result as prohibition.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Education is happening right now. It has been happening. Check out any prolife website. Check out Rachel’s vineyard and listen to women’s stories. Watch Father Provone videos. Watch all the videos linked in this thread. Education is out there.
Maybe, that is a maybe, a possibility of something that might happen. We don’t know but what we do know is that today, tomorrow, every day in the future right now babies are dying. That is a reality.
Yes, again, check out Rachel’s Vineyard or Abbey Johnson’s website. Watch the video I posted in this thread of her at the RNC. Education is out there but there is opposition. The evil one continues to work in women’s lives. He can be very deceptive, leading one’s soul astray.
It is possible that might happen, but that should not stop the government from making it illegal. As you said, provide education also. The fear of upsetting people should not stop someone from doing what is right.
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JimG
Guest
It might be sufficient simply to convince all Catholics of the evil of abortion.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That is true. But we don’t know is whether that dying will stop if we re-elect Trump. So we have two different maybes.LeafByNiggle:
Maybe, that is a maybe, a possibility of something that might happen. We don’t know but what we do know is that today, tomorrow, every day in the future right now babies are dying.
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upant
Guest
if the GOP loses all, it will be too late for action.
your vote for Biden supports his pushing an expansion of abortion rights.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
The maybes are not on the same scale though. One is a concern of a possibility or a fear of something, while the other is a chance and a possibility depending on people’s voting and continued pro life support.
And, we already know that President Trump has been working against the advocates for abortion:
You are right, we do not know if the dying will completely stop during his presidency but what we do know is that abortions will not stop but continue and expand if he is not elected.
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