How can you be Democratic and also be Catholic?

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Dovekin said:
My opinions are not up for discussion, except that ProLife is a complex question.
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I cannot - literally cannot - imagine a sane, rational discussion around the question, "Should the intentional killing of an innocent person, of any age from conception to natural death, be legally sanctioned and enabled as a right within the U.S. or any civilized nation? What is “complex” in the question, “Is it OK to kill babies?”

The fact that this is discussed these days among Catholics astounds me, shames me, horrifies me, and pierces me to the heart. May God have mercy on us.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
Surprised by the number of “we can’t infringe on someone’s religion if it allows them to murder babies” posters,
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That’s YOUR OPINION. And yes, the official opinion of the Catholic Church. But it’s not the opinion of most people, either in the US or the world. Or of most major world religions. They simply don’t see it as “murdering babies.” And to say or imply that THEY think abortion is “murdering babies” is denigrating their basic rights and their consciences.

If you are right, convince them. But as I’ve pointed out elsewhere, the pro-life forces are actually less popular now than they were 45 years ago. Time to change strategies???
 
fide said:
Should the intentional killing of an innocent person
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And of course once again we come to the crux of the issue–is a fetus a “person”? At what stage does a fertilized egg become a “person”? You say “conception.” Great, it certainly clarifies the issue. But there are other reasonable answers. And even the Catholic Church didn’t think all abortion was “murder” until 1867. Look it up. Pope Innocent III, Augustine, Jerome, Aquinas, etc. agreed. It was canon law. The Church never said abortion was a great idea, but at an early stage it was considered a sin against the rights of the father, not murder.
 
A Republican has been President for almost 4 years, and abortion is still legal. Before that, the Bush Administrations and Reagan. Electing a Republican President is not going to change the legality of abortion.

But electing the current President for another 4 will change the Republic in ways most simply cannot comprehend, or choose not to. For me if that happens, I will be taking a serious look at Victoria, BC.
 
That’s certainly what YOU believe. Most others think your beliefs are NOT “truth.” They think their OWN beliefs are “truth.” You can say your beliefs are “truth” for all eternity, but that doesn’t make it true.
 
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Erikaspirit16 said:
That’s YOUR OPINION.
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Not my opinion. Freedom of religion is not absolute. We have a right (and duty) to protect the unborn and no religion has the right to infringe on someone’s right to live. Catholics in good standing should not pass off abortion as “a personal choice.”
 
I’ve done that elsewhere numerous times. Feel free to look it up.
 
Just for the sake of discussion, so that we don’t have to make a whole new thread, would you agree that if human life begins at conception, it is our duty to ban abortion, at least elective ones?
 
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But how do you know that particular knows the truth? Take his word for it? If you say take the word of the Church, that’s great for Catholics. But what if you’re not Catholic?
 
fide said:
I cannot - literally cannot - imagine a sane, rational discussion around the question, "Should the intentional killing of an innocent person, of any age from conception to natural death, be legally sanctioned and enabled as a right within the U.S. or any civilized nation? What is “complex” in the question, “Is it OK to kill babies?”
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Which is why I am inviting you, in response to the question asked by the OP, to discuss something other than this question. But again your response is to offer this question, as if it were something sane rational people should discuss.
 
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Exactly. So I am tired of it being used as an excuse as to why people “have” to vote Republican. It is usually less effective when you give away your vote freely.

I think it is obvious to anyone paying attention, this President doesn’t give a rip about the unborn. But he does care about getting the guaranteed vote from 1 issue voters. So he puts on a good show to keep the vote. But since this would be his final term, I highly doubt he will continue to concentrate at all on the subject going forward.
 
Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
that we don’t have to make a whole new thread, would you agree that if human life begins at conception, it is our duty to ban abortion, at least elective ones?
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But yet again you’re assuming away the main point of debate. You can’t begin a debate by simply saying “The other side is wrong. I know the truth.” I stand corrected–you CAN say that, but it’s not very productive, which is why the pro-life position is moving backwards in public approval.
 
Go back to my quotation from the Catechism. As Catholics we have a duty to respect the consciences of others, even if we believe they are mistaken.
 
I only asked you to assume that for the sake of discussion. I’m going to check out now since I’ve said my piece and don’t feel like a shouting match about abortion would be productive. Answer my question or not, I don’t care too much. Just think about it, at least.
 
Tell that to the over 70,000 and counting who have lost their lives to the reckless handling of Covid. Undeniable. Any denial is intellectual dishonesty.
 
@ Erikaspirit16
And of course once again we come to the crux of the issue–is a fetus a “person”? At what stage does a fertilized egg become a “person”?
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The Nazis had their rational arguments (rational to their twisted minds) to justify wholesale murder of Jews too - or any other “less-than-human” being who had “life unworthy of life”. The U.S. slaveowners also - “rationally” judged that an African slave was only 3/5 of a person. Sin truly darkens the mind toward the rights and dignity of others - especially when the almighty and glorious SELF is advantaged by the abuse - rape - murder of that inconvenient other.

Doesn’t the human heart wrench in compassion, in the chest of a fellow human being, to even think of or imagine the horror of deliberate, intentional, methodical murder of innocent little babies?
 
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A statement as egregious as this requires evidence, otherwise, Hitchen’s razr.
 
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