How Can You Not Want To Be A Catholic After Seeing The Pope ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Righteousone
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by BloodWashed:
This Pope is the successor of Peter? You mean the Apostle Peter? My Bible is downstairs right now, so i can’t get the verse, but in the book of Acts, Peter rebuked people for bowing down and kissing his feet. I don’t know about Pope Benedict, but I know for a fact that it is a commonplace Catholic practice to kiss the feet of the Pope. How could anyone who claims to be a man of God allow someone to kiss his feet and therefore usurp glory due to the Heavenly Father?
When the Greek bishops arrived in Italy for what would be the Council of Florence, the Pope insisted that they do obeisance to him by kissing his foot. The Greeks astounded, from whence he derives this right? It was unknown to them. Eventually, the Pope relented and received the Greeks in another way.
 
Originally Posted by BeluvdLily:
Isn’t that the truth! I can’t believe people are so opposed to the Pope. It amazes me. He is so sweet and kind and gentle. You can see it shining forth from him. Oh well, I don’t care what anyone else thinks, I love the Holy Father and I am SO BLESSED to be Catholic!

The same with Our Lady. How can anyone look at her and see anything but good?

Amie
So is the Dali Lama. That doesn’t make me want to be Buddhist though. 🙂
 
… but I know for a fact that it is a **commonplace Catholic practice to kiss the feet of the Pope. **How could anyone who claims to be a man of God allow someone to kiss his feet and therefore usurp glory due to the Heavenly Father?
Your kidding, right? :rolleyes: Ehows How To Greet The Pope forgot this important step. They simply say
Step9Take the pope’s right hand and kiss his ring if you’re a Catholic.
Step10Take and shake the pope’s right hand if you’re not a Catholic. 🤷
I’ll have to tell DH to stop usurping glory due to the Heavenly Father next time he gets frisky.😃
 
This Pope is the successor of Peter? You mean the Apostle Peter? My Bible is downstairs right now, so i can’t get the verse, but in the book of Acts, Peter rebuked people for bowing down and kissing his feet. I don’t know about Pope Benedict, but I know for a fact that it is a commonplace Catholic practice to kiss the feet of the Pope. How could anyone who claims to be a man of God allow someone to kiss his feet and therefore usurp glory due to the Heavenly Father?
No, he rebuked Cornelius for worshipping him - in other words as a god. Hence his comment that “I am a man, as you”. Clearly Cornelius thought Peter was something more than a man. Whereas we don’t think that the Pope is anything other than a man, albeit a man in a unique position.

See, Romans had an unfortunate tendency to declare important people, usually the deceased but occasionally the living, to be gods. As did Greeks - remember Paul and Barnabas being declared to be Zeus and Hermes?

So in short, Peter’s objection had nothing to do with the acts of bowing or kissing the feet - after all, Jacob bowed seven times to his brother Esau in the Old Testament as a sign of respect, he certainly wasn’t worshipping him!
 
No, he rebuked Cornelius for worshipping him - in other words as a god. Hence his comment that “I am a man, as you”. Clearly Cornelius thought Peter was something more than a man. Whereas we don’t think that the Pope is anything other than a man, albeit a man in a unique position.

See, Romans had an unfortunate tendency to declare important people, usually the deceased but occasionally the living, to be gods. As did Greeks - remember Paul and Barnabas being declared to be Zeus and Hermes?

So in short, Peter’s objection had nothing to do with the acts of bowing or kissing the feet - after all, Jacob bowed seven times to his brother Esau in the Old Testament as a sign of respect, he certainly wasn’t worshipping him!
Jacob bowed to Esau before the ten commandments were given. Like the second one which says you ought not bow down to idols.

Also, what about the infallibility of the Pope? Doesn’t that put him at God level?
 
Jacob bowed to Esau before the ten commandments were given. Like the second one which says you ought not bow down to idols.
Worship is worship - Jacob didn’t need Moses to define it to know what it was and whether or not he was doing it.

Abraham certainly knew better than to worship any other than the God of Israel, he didn’t need the 10 Commandments to tell him so, neither would his grandson Jacob need them either. No way was he worshipping Esau.

No way is bowing worship. The Japanese bow to EVERYONE - are they then worshipping everyone? Course not. English people bow to their Queen, as I would as well because she’s mine too. Especially if she’s giving a knighthood they kneel as well. Are they worshipping her or simply showing respect? Do you think they unaware of the ten commandments? Not a bit of it. They simply realise, as you don’t, that bowing is a sign of RESPECT and not worship.
Also, what about the infallibility of the Pope? Doesn’t that put him at God level?
No, it puts him on the same level as the Apostles, whom the Holy Spirit guided in all truth as Jesus promised, and who as a result taught infallibly. Or the same level as the spirit-guided writers of Scripture, who also wrote infallibly (or inerrantly, which is the more correct term). The Apostles aren’t on the same level as God because of this, neither are the writers of Scripture, neither is the Pope.
 
Worship is worship - Jacob didn’t need Moses to define it to know what it was and whether or not he was doing it.

Abraham certainly knew better than to worship any other than the God of Israel, he didn’t need the 10 Commandments to tell him so, neither would his grandson Jacob need them either. No way was he worshipping Esau.

No way is bowing worship. The Japanese bow to EVERYONE - are they then worshipping everyone? Course not. English people bow to their Queen, as I would as well because she’s mine too. Especially if she’s giving a knighthood they kneel as well. Are they worshipping her or simply showing respect? Do you think they unaware of the ten commandments? Not a bit of it. They simply realise, as you don’t, that bowing is a sign of RESPECT and not worship.

No, it puts him on the same level as the Apostles, whom the Holy Spirit guided in all truth as Jesus promised, and who as a result taught infallibly. Or the same level as the spirit-guided writers of Scripture, who also wrote infallibly (or inerrantly, which is the more correct term). The Apostles aren’t on the same level as God because of this, neither are the writers of Scripture, neither is the Pope.
I’m not sure where the line between respect and worship is with bowing, but there is one. Second commandment says not to bow down to idols–I’ll quote it if you want me to, but it’ll take me a minute to find it.

And how do you know that the Pope is under the holy inspiration of God?
 
I’m not sure where the line between respect and worship is with bowing, but there is one. Second commandment says not to bow down to idols–I’ll quote it if you want me to, but it’ll take me a minute to find it.

QUOTE]

In order for an idol to be worshipped as a God, someone has to believe the object or person is a God. Since Catholics don’t see the Pope as a God, then when they bow down, they are not worshipping an idol.

I hope this clears it up for you.
 
how do you know that the Pope is under the holy inspiration of God?
a) we clearly need God-inspired authority figures in the Christian Church today, every bit as much as the early Christians did in Apostolic times. Jesus didn’t intend to leave us comparatively bereft of divinely-inspired guidance.

b) Jesus gave the Apostles that authority and guidance directly. He gave them the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth, the power to bind and loose heaven, and to Peter He gave the Keys of the Kingdom.

c) He also gave them the means to pass that authority and those gifts along through following generations. They passed these gifts on to their successors by laying on of hands. Remember Matthias, those first seven deacons, along with Paul, all had Apostolic endorsement and had Apostolic hands laid upon them - who then went and did the same to others.

d) a little concept called Apostolic succession - our Popes and Bishops can trace an unbroken lineage directly back to the Apostles of worthy successors who each laid hands upon their successors in the next generation, thus passing Apostolic authority on to them.

e) His promise that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His church. Being led by humans, any church would fail in this task without His divine inspiration and guidance in each and every generation. Clearly that guidance comes from its leadership otherwise it is largely ineffective, no? So it’s our Pope and Bishops who have this divine guidance.

The Catholic Church being the only one that was around in Christ’s time, it is the original Church against which the gates of Hell is to not prevail. So it is our leaders about whom Christ made this promise and the promise to guide it into all truth.
 
This Pope is the successor of Peter? You mean the Apostle Peter? My Bible is downstairs right now, so i can’t get the verse, but in the book of Acts, Peter rebuked people for bowing down and kissing his feet. I don’t know about Pope Benedict, but I know for a fact that it is a commonplace Catholic practice to kiss the feet of the Pope. How could anyone who claims to be a man of God allow someone to kiss his feet and therefore usurp glory due to the Heavenly Father?
BloodWashed,
You can’t get what verse? Just a heads up the “scripture only” argument would and has been dealt with in other threads many times.

For all who are “confused” about idol worship post #88 by notself makes it clear.

Glad to have you here and God Bless,
DCD
 
Have you ever read THE HISTORY of the papacy? How it comes from St. Peter as chosen by Jesus Christ? You can deny this any which way you want to, but it is historical fact, and history you cannot change.
I am curious on one point. Can you cite one neutral (non-Catholic) historian (that presumably does not have an agenda) that agrees it is a historical fact.

Curious on this.
 
I’m not sure where the line between respect and worship is with bowing, but there is one. Second commandment says not to bow down to idols–I’ll quote it if you want me to, but it’ll take me a minute to find it.

And how do you know that the Pope is under the holy inspiration of God?
yes. It says don’t bow down to idols. It does not prohibit bowing.
 
If you can convince me Mary (1) was conceived without original sin (2) did not commit one sin during her entire lifetime (even during the terrible twos) then we can talk.

But you can’t…:whistle:
You believe that 2-yr olds are sinning when they have a tantrum?

Don’t you think that a person has to reach a certain level of developement to be held responsible for what they do? Is 2 that age?

The poor crying infant who is 'selfishly" keeping her parents from their much-needed rest at 2AM. Hell must have a special place for these malicious infants. lol

Seriously, do you believe that a 2-yr-old who is having a tantrum is sinning? Wait, is sin a verb? Should it be “commiting a sin”? Did I just make up that word? :0
 
Few things are more easily changed than history.
When do you think the history of the popes was changed? Is there a specific time in history when someone altered the books? Who was that person?
 
I am a follower of Jesus Christ my Lord.
Not the so called Catholic term. It has so many meanings in todays world does it not?
I look ot no man on earth for salvation I only look to the one that sits at the right hand of the Father.
I think you don’t realize it, but nothing in your post conflicts with Catholicism. Catholics are also followers of Christ. We don’t think that the pope offers us salvation.

Defining Catholic, though. When you see it, you use the context to decide what meaning is intended. Obvioulsy the OP means Catholic with a C not a c–and you spelled it that way, too. The OP means the Catholic Church.

We know that the Catholic Church is Christ’s church, so this is the church we choose.

I’m not sure why the OP thinks that seeing a pope in a procession would make someone want to become Catholic.

People should want to become Catholic because of what the Catholic Church is, not because the pope and the pope mobile make a spectacular show.

I agree that the Pope was impressive. I think that Ghandi was impressive, too, for the same reasons–his sincerity and holiness. But would I choose to follow Ghandi’s religion because I’m impressed with him personally? So why would a non-Catholic choose to become Catholic after seeing that Pope Benedict is a sincere and holy person? I think that the visit will bring back some Catholics who’ve been away from the sacraments. New converts? Maybe. Maybe they will research Catholicism to see what the CC is all about. Mabye then they will convert. But I don’t think anyone will convert because they saw the pope in the US.

People follow some strange characters, though. The televangelists come to mind. I certainly hope that converts to Catholicism are smarter than that–that the personage of the pope isn’t their reason for converting.
 
How can one not want to be Catholic after witnessing the pope’s visit all this week? This humble and holy man, an Apostle of Peace, who went out of his routine to speak with abuse victims, who was invited to the Jewish synagogue where they treated him very well.
A man who is invited to Ground Zero to pray, (I don’t remember any non-Catholic pastors or people being invited) where it was televised for all the world to see. A man who gathers thousands in his presence by the blink of an eye.
Benedict the XVI is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ on earth. After seeing His holiness, why would you want to be anything else? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
:signofcross: :crossrc: Thank you Jesus for the Holy Catholic church.
I don’t understand the question: why would seeing a Pope make anyone want to join his religion?

I’ve seen the Dalai Lama, and GREATLY admire his teachings, but there is no way I’d ever convert to become a Buddhist.

It IS possible to admire religious leaders, and even aspects of their religions, without feeling a need to join said religion.

I admire traditional Roman Catholicism to an extent: the Tridentine Latin High Mass, Gregorian chant, the classical music used in the Traditional Mass, etc., but certainly not enough to make me want to join the religion.
 
You believe that 2-yr olds are sinning when they have a tantrum?

Don’t you think that a person has to reach a certain level of developement to be held responsible for what they do? Is 2 that age?

The poor crying infant who is 'selfishly" keeping her parents from their much-needed rest at 2AM. Hell must have a special place for these malicious infants. lol

Seriously, do you believe that a 2-yr-old who is having a tantrum is sinning? Wait, is sin a verb? Should it be “commiting a sin”? Did I just make up that word? :0
I do believe they are objectively doing something outside of God’s commandments when they defy parental authority. And I do believe the Biblical word for this is “sin”.

To what extent God holds two year olds responsible for this behaviour is a separate issue. I personally believe they are not, but anyway.

But this is really tangential. If you believe otherwise, fine.
 
Originally Posted by HashemEchad:
I don’t understand the question: why would seeing a Pope make anyone want to join his religion?
I’ve seen the Dalai Lama, and GREATLY admire his teachings, but there is no way I’d ever convert to become a Buddhist.
It IS possible to admire religious leaders, and even aspects of their religions, without feeling a need to join said religion.
I admire traditional Roman Catholicism to an extent: the Tridentine Latin High Mass, Gregorian chant, the classical music used in the Traditional Mass, etc., but certainly not enough to make me want to join the religion.
Well written. I’ve worked for traditional Mennonites before and highly respect them. But this does not mean I want to become a Mennonite.
 
This Pope is the successor of Peter? You mean the Apostle Peter? My Bible is downstairs right now, so i can’t get the verse, but in the book of Acts, Peter rebuked people for bowing down and kissing his feet. I don’t know about Pope Benedict, but I know for a fact that it is a commonplace Catholic practice to kiss the feet of the Pope. How could anyone who claims to be a man of God allow someone to kiss his feet and therefore usurp glory due to the Heavenly Father?
Where the heck did you get that from??? One of your many anti-Catholic pastors and friends? Where are your facts that it is a commonplace Catholic practice to kiss his feet??? This is nothing more than false information obtained from some nitwit who knows nothing of the CC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top