How certain are we that God exists?

[yppop]

To date, Yppop is the only one to have produced his own definition of certainty.

I am still waiting for Yppop to resume our exchange on where is the concept found.

He said that he could not understand my question to him, so I told him what I maintain, namely, that the concept of certainty is located in our mind.
KingCoil

After much reflection I’ve concluded that it would save a lot of my time just to concede that the “concept” of certain and certainty does resides in the human mind although I had difficulty wrapping my mind around the phrase “the concept of certain”. “The concept of certainty” is easier to swallow. (Since English is not your native language, I apologize for my use of idioms.) . The word concept is generally used with regard to words that refer to categories or classes, such as the concept of money, of justice, of motherhood, of planetary orbits, of addition, etc. It is usually applied to nouns. That aside, in order to find where you are going with this discussion, I will concur that the concept of certain and certainty reside in the human mind even though I have some problem with your definition of the word certain. Tying the definition of certain/certainty to inductive reasoning ("…can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses…"), hinders any argument that I might present that I am certain that God exists.

Sorry for the delay but this is my busy season. I live a very active life.

Yppop.

 

[KingCoil]

Thanks, Sapien, for your post.

Originally Posted by KingCoil
Dear Sapien, please produce your definition of the word certain or certainty in less than 50 word.

So, now we have three posters each with his own self-thought out or at least self-formulated definition of certain, certainty:

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#186 from Ypopp
The level of certainty of the existence of something depends on probability of the existence of a possible alternative. The lower the probability of the possible alternative, the higher the level of certainty. Absolute certainty means that the something to which it refers has no alternative, 2+2=4 for example.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

Now, let us all three concur on that we are talking about certain, certainty in the most generic of reach, not only in this thread, but in any human discourse where certain, certainty are used.

Dear Sapien and Ypopp, will you concur on that?

After concurring on that I propose we also concur that the concept of certain, certainty is in our mind but also in the universe; is that all right with you, or you have any objections whatsoever – in which case we will work together to resolve your objections by coming to concurrence on where is the concept of certain, certainty found or in a way located.

Addressing everyone interested in the topic of this thread, namely, “How certain are we that God exists?”

Please just present your own self-thought out or at least self-formulated definition of the words, certain or certainty.

Of course, you can go into other matters, but first at the very top of your post when you next post here, present your definition of the concept of certain, certainty, in less than 50 words.

You all do notice that I am always working with folks to come to concurrence on what we understand by the words we use in our talk whatsoever; for me that is of the most utmost importance, because otherwise we are talking ultimately past each other’s head.

Will you all concur with me on the above paragraph, or you maintain that there is no need to concur on the concepts of words we use in our speech with other folks?

KingCoil

 

[KingCoil]

Please consider that I am sharing how humans can be certain of God’s absolute existence. As a human coming into existence, once I know what God knows, I am certain the knowledge is absolute.

Ok. The process of being certain of an object’s existence is accepting a definition of the object in question, followed by reasonable analysis of the being’s environment, in which alignment concludes to certainty, and misalignment concludes to uncertainty.

I definitely prefer the Wisdom of the Catholic Church: “…God, the first principle and last end of all things, can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason.”

Thanks for sharing further thoughts, I will do my best to keep up.

BTW…thanks for all your patience with me, this is very enjoyable reflection material in my day!

Thanks for your cooperation or for our mutual cooperation in this enterprise of determining “How certain are we that God exists?”

Before anything else, we are concerned with certain and certainty the concept of, with us ourselves humans, not with Martians or angels or extra-terrestrials, and with all due reverence, not with God Himself either.

Of course the certain and certainty has to do with the existence of God as creator of the universe – on this point, if anyone has any objections, he should bring it out now; for we don’t want to have a concept of God not even just in the wistful psychology of atheists, that God is an invisible pink unicorn or flying spaghetti monster, if you atheists want to tell mankind that the concept of God is invalid, then say so, but don’t bring in images of unicorn and also spaghetti, just say God is an invalid concept for yourselves atheists.

In which case we will work together to concur in what sense you mean that God is an invalid concept or maybe you mean impossible concept.

Moreover, coming back to humans and certain, certainty, we are concerned with humans in the universe which is the one studied by scientists, not with any fiction universe like parallel universes or multiverse, etc., whatever.

KingCoil

 

[KingCoil]

After much reflection I’ve concluded that it would save a lot of my time just to concede that the “concept” of certain and certainty does resides in the human mind although I had difficulty wrapping my mind around the phrase “the concept of certain”. “The concept of certainty” is easier to swallow. (Since English is not your native language, I apologize for my use of idioms.) . The word concept is generally used with regard to words that refer to categories or classes, such as the concept of money, of justice, of motherhood, of planetary orbits, of addition, etc. It is usually applied to nouns. That aside, in order to find where you are going with this discussion, I will concur that the concept of certain and certainty reside in the human mind even though I have some problem with your definition of the word certain. Tying the definition of certain/certainty to inductive reasoning ("…can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses…"), hinders any argument that I might present that I am certain that God exists.

Sorry for the delay but this is my busy season. I live a very active life.

Yppop.

Thanks, Yppop, for your contributions.

We will take them up in the course of working to come to an all concurred on formulation of the concept of certain, certainty.

And everyone, please don’t say that at the rate we are working to concur, we will never get to the meat of the issue; that is a fear that is a false pre-occupation, unless you prefer to not think intelligently grounded on logic and facts, because that is too heavy an undertaking for you, I can accept that and dispense you from participating in this thread.

No, the points of concurrence will not come to an nth number, but in the end we will all realize that there are only a few when compared to heavy tomes of celebrity writers who write without ever giving any definitions of the words they use, which are crucial words in the issue that they are propounding, but when you make an exhaustive concordance of their words in context you will discover that they switch their meanings in all directions even in opposite directions.

KingCoil

 

[jochoa]

Before anything else, we are concerned with certain and certainty the concept of, with us ourselves humans, not with Martians or angels or extra-terrestrials, and with all due reverence, not with God Himself either.

Of course the certain and certainty has to do with the existence of God as creator of the universe – on this point, if anyone has any objections, he should bring it out now…

Ok. After further reflection, my current understanding of certain from a human perspective without consideration of God is:
a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one’s environment and an object in question.

Although I do not have any objection to God as the Creator of the universe, I would appreciate us including other definitions, which are equally valid, of God such as: the Creator of everything; Love; the Greatest Being; the All-powerful Being; Jesus Christ; and the Holy Trinity & His Church.
For if we limit the definition of God to only the Creator of the Universe, we limit our level of certainty of God.

Thanks for further clarification!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Dear Sapien and Ypopp, will you concur on that?

The immediate topic of discussion is agreed upon. While you didn’t ask if I agree with the definitions I’ll address that without solicitation.

#186 from Ypopp
The level of certainty of the existence of something depends on probability of the existence of a possible alternative. The lower the probability of the possible alternative, the higher the level of certainty.

I’m fine with a probabilistic approach.

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

Repeatability can contribute to one feeling certain or to the probabilistic approach above. But it is not necessarily a part of something to which a person feels certain. I’m certain that as a child there was an apple tree in a specific yard. If I go to that yard today there is no apple tree. If have no pictures of that yard from years ago. If I ever had doubts of there having been that apple tree I cannot verify it again and again. I cannot reapply my senses.

I used an example that involved many years, but the same thing can occur in a lesser amount of time. I could be certain that I had observed a boat sink in the water a few hours prior, but the continual movement of ocean currents may make it impossible for me to find the debris shortly afterwards.

One can be certain without having repeatably observable artifacts.

. . .]certainty is in our mind -]but also in the universe/-]; is that all right with you, or you have any objections whatsoever

At best I could only extend the concept of certainty to a calculating agent (be it living or not). When you say that it’s in the universe it sounds like you are describing certainty completely detached from any agent at all. Even the definition that you gave is dependent on an agent of some type to do the observation/verification.

– in which case we will work together to resolve your objections by coming to concurrence on where is the concept of certain, certainty found or in a way located.

By definition are not all concepts mental (in the mind)?

I don’t think applying positional attributes to “certainty” is meaningful beyond this.

Will you all concur with me on the above paragraph, or you maintain that there is no need to concur on the concepts of words we use in our speech with other folks?

I’ve got no objection to you continuing. But I don’t know enough about what you plan to say to make a determination on whether or not the points of disagreement matter.

 

[KingCoil]

Ok. After further reflection, my current understanding of certain from a human perspective without consideration of God is:
a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one’s environment and an object in question.

…]

Thanks, Jochoa, for your definition of certain:

a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one’s environment and an object in question.

So, now we have four posters each with his own self-thought out or at least self-formulated definition of certain, certainty:

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#186 from Ypopp
The level of certainty of the existence of something depends on probability of the existence of a possible alternative. The lower the probability of the possible alternative, the higher the level of certainty. Absolute certainty means that the something to which it refers has no alternative, 2+2=4 for example.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

#214 from Jochao
a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one’s environment and an object in question.

So, everyone who have a definition here, one of the four so far, please examine them, and then propose changes so that we all will be closer to one definition concurred on by everyone.

If you have not contributed any definition, please just read and don’t criticize the definitions here.

If you want to work toward a common concurred on definition, first present your own self-thought out or self-formulated definition of certain, certainty, and then if you care, you can criticize the definitions already present by others, and very important propose how the definition you criticize should be re-formulated so that it will stand the chance of being accepted by all to be the common concurred on definition of certain, certainty.

If you think that is too much work for you, then just choose the one you feel should be reformulated, or perhaps you could change your own formulated definition upon having read and thought more thoroughly the definitions of others here.

KingCoil

 

[KingCoil]

…]

Originally Posted by KingCoil
#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

Okay, Sapien, rewrite my formulated definition of certain so that it is still less than 50 words and it is the one you think deserves the concurrence of others here.

KingCoil

 

[adawgj]

For me as an individual I’m pretty certain that God exists. God gives me purpose and fulfillment

 

[KingCoil]

The is the OP of the thread, and in it I already proposed that we concur on the concepts of the words in bold reproduced in the title of the thread:

How certain are we that God exists?

And below is the OP reproduced with the paragraphs expounding on the four words above in big size type.

• Enumeration post-added ]*

First, before anything else we have to work together to come to concurrence on the meanings of the important words used in the title of the thread.

Here are the words of the title:

How
certain
are
we
that
God
exists.

I propose for the present that the important words are the following:

certain
we
God
exists.

So, I will get started with what I know from stock knowledge on the meaning of the word “certain.”

What do I understand by the word certain?

1. But right away I realize that I must first define what I mean by the word “we” because it is we who are certain, that it is we who are concerned with certainty; I mean we know that we can be certain of things: for there are humans who maintain that certainty is not at all possible, for example, there might be posters here who are not even certain that they are present here in this forum.

And that brings in the question, what to do with folks? who are not certain that they are present at all.

Exclude them from the discussion here, because they are not normal humans, and we want to proceed from the departure point that we are normal humans: it’s like in respect of the right and duty to vote in an election of say the president of the country, only normal humans are entitled to vote, abnormal ones are excluded; and if they are violently abnormal, then we put them in safe keeping, in an asylum, first for our own safety, and second for their own safety.

Okay, who and what are we? who are going to discuss how certain are we that God exists.

We are living entities who do know that we have a nose in our face, and we will be at a disadvantage in life if someone should take away our nose.

Or we accidentally lose our nose due to some mishap.

And there are all the other things that make up each one of us that make up the whole entity we call ourselves, which components if we should lose any of them we will be at some disadvantage in life if not in total demise from life, i.e. we will be dead, meaning, no longer living, and must be put away and out of sight in the cemetery.

Okay, so among normal humans we know who and what we are, so let us not waste further time in coming to concurrence on the meaning of we in the title of the thread.

1. Next to come to concurrence on is the word, * exists *.

The noun of the verb to exist is existence, and for the present let us all concur by pointing to ourselves, living normal human beings, as an example of entities who have existence, as opposed to anything without existence, meaning ultimately that we are something instead of nothing whatsoever.

To exist means to be something instead of the diametrically opposite of something, which is nothing; if anyone does not know what is something that is totally opposite to nothing, so that he also does not know what is nothing, then I would propose to him to leave this thread at his earliest convenience.

1. Now, let us concur on the concept of God.

And I propose in regard to the Christian faith, God is first and foremost the creator of the universe.

So, dear folks here, if you don’t have at least the information datum that in the Christian faith, God in concept is first and foremost the creator of the universe, you can also depart from this thread at your earliest convenience.

1. That leaves finally the word * certain * for us all normal existing humans to work together to come to concurrence on what it is to be certain.

I will start with the proposal that to be certain of something existing is for us to experience its presence, its being in physical contact to us, so that if we cannot experience its presence at all, then we cannot be certain of its existence, that is what I call immediate or direct certainty, and I will add, the adjective, human, like this: direct human certainty.

That is the first kind of certainty that we all must possess, so that if you claim to not have immediate human certainty of say the nose in your face, whereas everyone looking at your face tells you, you have a nose, then you are also addressed the invitation to please depart from this thread, because you are not a normal human and cannot be any possessor of certainty whatsoever of any kind at all, from the first and foremost certainty possible to humans, which is direct human certainty.

Next kind of certainty is what I will call indirect human certainty which is not founded on the immediate human experience of an object present, but from intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts.

Let us concur to call indirect human certainty, inferential certainly.

So, let us be concise and of course also precise, I propose that we keep to these two terms in regard to certainty, namely:

1. Direct certainty – founded on direct experience of an object
2. Inferential certainty – founded on intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts.

What do you guys here say?

Continuation in next post ]

 

[KingCoil]

Continuation of KingCoil’s post ]

Allow me to put in few words the exposition of ##1, 2, 3, 4.

1. The word We means only humans are here discussing the thread, don’t bring in non-humans, not even God Himself.
2. The word exists involves a subject that is the exact and complete opposite of nothing, so that anything that is the exact and complete opposite of nothing is something that exists.
3. God in this thread insofar as regards the information of the concept of the word God is concerned, it meant that God is the creator of the universe; so don’t bring in anything else about God whatsoever that is in addition to Him being the creator of the universe, even to the enhancement of His winsomeness with us humans, like His being most just, most merciful, most good, etc. – but I am not denying all His other winsome attributes in regard to His believers.
4. Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

##1, 2, 3 are not negotiable, so that if you cannot accept the concepts of the words we, exists, God: please do not participate in this thread.

#4 is what participants are now working on to come to concurrence on the concept, viz. certain, certainty.

So, participants and would be participants in this thread, please be guided according.

KingCoil

 

[Aloysium]

:twocents:

I am certain I am writing this, whatever, whomever, wherever, whenever this is.
My view is that there is no objective (i.e.: non-personal) certainty since it is all about relationships, which change with variations in perspective, attitude and circumstances.

That which one should strive for more than certainty, is love. When one loves another, it is through that love that one truly comes to know them.

To say that I know anything about this moment is of far less value than this actual moment itself.

To say “I know” is a fundamental statement. “Deeper” is the “awareness” that I know because I am known and loved.

Relating to He who is Beauty, Love, Truth and Being - our Creator, one finds that He is spoken of in many Holy Writings, but never so clearly and truly as in the Teachings of His Church.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Okay, Sapien, rewrite my formulated definition of certain …]

I can’t. The definition/I that you have provided only talks about something that gives you a feeling of certainty (repeatability of the experience) without actually giving a definition. So there’s nothing to work with to reword.

 

[hasantas]

…

Let us concur to call indirect human certainty, inferential certainly.

So, let us be concise and of course also precise, I propose that we keep to these two terms in regard to certainty, namely:

1. Direct certainty – founded on direct experience of an object
2. Inferential certainty – founded on intelligent thinking grounded on logic and facts.

What do you guys here say?

KingCoil

My certainty is % 99 in all sorts. I always check and test proofs for existence of God.
İnferential certainty:

Life of prophets give certainty. All prophets were rihgtful, never lied, wise, with high morality etc. They performed miracles and had revelations and scriptures. A common human could not possess those properties. İf a prophet did not have a fact from God he would never convince anyone. There are many reports that prophets had that facts and miracles. İf we will not accept these messages than we must deny and reject all human history because first human was a prophet. All prophets concured on same topics God, Heaven, Hell, Angels, Destiny, life to come which shows that all prophets took from same origin.

Scriptures especially Quran give a high certainty. That is too long to explain indeed ı have no enough English.

Order and regularity of universe demonstrate a creator. Because it is impossible that this order could consist and happen by itself or chances.

Life shows a Creator with a very obvious certain. Because nothing(energy, gravity, force, laws, light) can be source of life.

Senses point a God. Like life non of energy and other material can be source of senses. For example computer(run with energy) can make many process but has not a life and senses.
……….

Direct certainty:

When ı perfom and fulfil worships ı feel and get high morality.
When I do good deeds I have good dreams but if I do evil I get troubled in dreams.

But notice that there is always an uncertain point in faith and that is because of exam. Because God wants to test human on the world. İf faith were % 100 certain there would be no mean.

Some possible prospects of suspicion about faith must not trouble and harm faith. For example it is possible prospect that Black Sea could sink into underground. But that does not wrong our certain believe that Black Sea is there exactly where it is. So some prospects for absence of God must not harm certainty of our faith that God exists.

 

[KingCoil]

…]

So, now we have four posters each with his own self-thought out or at least self-formulated definition of certain, certainty:

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#186 from Ypopp
The level of certainty of the existence of something depends on probability of the existence of a possible alternative. The lower the probability of the possible alternative, the higher the level of certainty. Absolute certainty means that the something to which it refers has no alternative, 2+2=4 for example.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

#214 from Jochao
a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one’s environment and an object in question.

So, everyone who have a definition here, one of the four so far, please examine them, and then propose changes so that we all will be closer to one definition concurred on by everyone.

If you have not contributed any definition, please just read and don’t criticize the definitions here.

If you want to work toward a common concurred on definition, first present your own self-thought out or self-formulated definition of certain, certainty, and then if you care, you can criticize the definitions already present[ed] by others, and very important propose how the definition you criticize should be re-formulated so that it will stand the chance of being accepted by all to be the common concurred on definition of certain, certainty.

If you think that is too much work for you, then just choose the one you feel should be reformulated, or perhaps you could change your own formulated definition upon having read and thought more thoroughly the definitions of others here.

Dear participants, at this point of the thread, if you have not presented your own self-thought out definition of certain or certainty, I will not react to your posts, but of course readers can benefit from them.

Remember:
If you have not contributed any definition, please just read and don’t criticize the definitions here.

If you want to work toward a common concurred on definition, first present your own self-thought out or self-formulated definition of certain, certainty, and then if you care, you can criticize the definitions already present[ed] by others, and very important propose how the definition you criticize should be re-formulated so that it will stand the chance of being accepted by all to be the common concurred on definition of certain, certainty.

If you think that is too much work for you, then just choose the one you feel should be reformulated, or perhaps you could change your own formulated definition upon having read and thought more thoroughly the definitions of others here.

Please be guided accordingly, so that we will get to concurrence on what is certain, certainty, otherwise the issue involved will never get to be resolved to the satisfaction of everyone involved.

KingCoil

 

[KingCoil]

…]

So, now we have four posters each with his own self-thought out or at least self-formulated definition of certain, certainty:

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#186 from Ypopp
The level of certainty of the existence of something depends on probability of the existence of a possible alternative. The lower the probability of the possible alternative, the higher the level of certainty. Absolute certainty means that the something to which it refers has no alternative, 2+2=4 for example.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

#214 from Jochao
a firm belief directly proportional to the perceived alignment of the reasonable analysis of one's environment and an object in question.

So, everyone who have a definition here, one of the four so far, please examine them, and then propose changes so that we all will be closer to one definition concurred on by everyone.

I will now choose to rewrite the definition of Sapien by comparing it to my definition.

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

The definition of Sapien should be rewritten thus:
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

The reason is because the definition of Sapien lacks an example.

So, Sapien, suppose you rewrite your definition in less than 50 words that will also have an example of something concrete you are certain of or you have certainty of.

Between two definitions of a word, the one with an example is to be preferred by a seeker of definitions of words than the one without any example.

KingCoil

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I will now choose to rewrite the definition of Sapien by comparing it to my definition.
…]
The definition of Sapien should be rewritten thus:

Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

The reason is because the definition of Sapien lacks an example.
​

That’s not rewriting my definition. That’s writing your definition (to which I have already expressed disagreement and the reason why) and attributing it to me.

So, Sapien, suppose you rewrite your definition in less than 50 words that will also have an example of something concrete you are certain of or you have certainty of.

If you want an example, you only need to ask. But I don’t see a need to rewrite my definition as you’ve not pointed out anything in it that makes it inadequate or incorrect. You’ve only said you want an example.

“I’m certain that today from my house the sun will go below the horizon at 8:20pm.”

I have no changes to make to my definition for now. I’m open to making changes, but before then I need to know what about it is inadequate or incorrect.​

 

[yppop]

Hey King,
I just derived a definition for “certain” that not only proves the existence of God with absolute certainty but also proves that you are not a real person, but alas I had to use 51 words so I can’t contribute it to this, your apparent eternal quest for the definition of “certain”.

Since none of my questions were addressed and my original definition elicited no response other than a diversion when you added and even more ambiguous word, “concept” to the mix, I plan to voluntarily jump ship (whoops another idiom and I promised not to use them) until such time that you get around to giving your personal answer to the question: “How certain are we that God exists?” So,* adios muchachos.
Yppop*

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Hey King,
…]your apparent eternal quest for the definition of “certain”.

Since none of my questions were addressed and my original definition elicited no response other than a diversion when you added and even more ambiguous word, “concept” to the mix, I plan to voluntarily jump ship…]

Charlemagne III went overboard before you did and should already have the life boat inflated and waiting for you. Tell him I said “Hi!”

 

[KingCoil]

That’s not rewriting my definition. That’s writing your definition (to which I have already expressed disagreement and the reason why) and attributing it to me.

If you want an example, you only need to ask. But I don’t see a need to rewrite my definition as you’ve not pointed out anything in it that makes it inadequate or incorrect. You’ve only said you want an example.

“I’m certain that today from my house the sun will go below the horizon at 8:20pm.”

I have no changes to make to my definition for now. I’m open to making changes, but before then I need to know what about it is inadequate or incorrect.

Well, it is your right to not produce a better definition.

I will have other things to say about your definition, right now your idea of certain, certainty is founded on emotion i.e. , “a feeling of confidence,” compared to mine.

#178 from KingCoil
Certain means that a piece of information like there is a nose in our face can be verified again and again if we doubt it, by applying our senses like sight to experience its presence.

#208 from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person.

Seekers of definitions are not after fulfilling their feelings, but after a guide to the facts, events, objects in actual reality of the universe from the definitions of words.

Okay, just put your example into your extant definition and your seeker of definitions will feel what?

Like this? “I’m certain, I mean I have a feeling of confidence like for example that today from my house the sun will go below the horizon at 8:20pm.”

Anyway, as we are now into polishing our definitions, will you insert your example in your definition, so that the improved definition from you will still be less than 50 words.

Okay, I will do it for you:
New improved definition from Sapien
A state of having a feeling of confidence for an idea/proposition or feeling of trustworthiness for an object or person, for example, I’m certain that today from my house the sun will go below the horizon at 8:20pm. [38(or 39) words, good!]

Dear readers here, we are now in the work of improving each other’s definition of the words: certain, certainty.

And as I said, an example illustrating the definition makes for a better definition than one without an example.

I can see already that everyone involved must go into his criteria of what is a good definition in terms of how it is useful to the seekers of definitions of words, to identify what things or events or facts or situations from the definitions of words representing them.

One of the criteria of a good useful definition is an example illustrating the definition.

Another criterion of a good useful definition is that it be NOT directed toward feelings, but toward purely intellective (not emotive) considerations.

KingCoil