How could a moral God allow suffering?

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Tomdstone said:
Is it fair to punish the grandson for something the grandfather has done? Suppose the grandson says his rosary and attends daily Mass and performs voluntary charitable community service regularly, but the grandfather, who is living in another state, gets drunk and robs a bank, killing a few tellers and clients. Should the grandson then be punished by sending him to the gas chamber because of something his grandfather did?
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No, it is not fair.

And that’s why God made it right by sending His Son.
 
Achilles6129 said:
Some people suffer without doing anything to deserve suffering at all - for example, those that are born blind or acquire a terminal illness at a young age. Free will doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with suffering.
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In the sense of causing the suffering, that is often true enough.

But we have free will to deal with the suffering inflicted upon us. We can bravely carry on and turn to God for strength, or we can become petulant victims of our suffering and whine ourselves to death.
 
oldcelt said:
Made it right with loads of conditions or truly made it right?
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Not sure what you mean by “loads of conditions”. But God truly made it right by giving us The Way.

We can take it. Or we can choose our own way.

I guess if by “with loads of conditions” you mean that we are free to accept The Way, or free to reject it, then, ok. 🤷
 
PRmerger said:
No, it is not fair.

And that’s why God made it right by sending His Son.
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I would tend to agree that we make ourselves evil in the sense that we disobey God’s commands. However, there is no doubt that we are conceived in a certain state through no fault of our own (just think of someone born blind). There is also no doubt that we live in a fallen universe not because of something we did but because of something that Adam/Eve did. The tree of the knowledge of good/evil must have permeated every molecule in the cosmos. It must have totally recoded Adam/Eve’s DNA and even recoded animal DNA. This is clearly an extremely dangerous tree and I am not sure that modern Christian theology has truly grasped how dangerous it really is.
 
Achilles6129 said:
I would tend to agree that we make ourselves evil in the sense that we disobey God’s commands. However, there is no doubt that we are conceived in a certain state through no fault of our own (just think of someone born blind). There is also no doubt that we live in a fallen universe not because of something we did but because of something that Adam/Eve did. The tree of the knowledge of good/evil must have permeated every molecule in the cosmos. It must have totally recoded Adam/Eve’s DNA and even recoded animal DNA. This is clearly an extremely dangerous tree and I am not sure that modern Christian theology has truly grasped how dangerous it really is.
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Adams response is the key; passing the buck, not taking responsibility for his action or possibly no action not a tree.

God Bless
 
Achilles6129 said:
. . . The tree of the knowledge of good/evil must have permeated every molecule in the cosmos. It must have totally recoded Adam/Eve’s DNA and even recoded animal DNA. This is clearly an extremely dangerous tree and I am not sure that modern Christian theology has truly grasped how dangerous it really is.
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No DNA was recoded. No matter was permeated with knowledge. This is not scientific nor revealed.
All this is mystery and I gather you’re trying to describe it in terms of what you know. However, I’m not sure where your translation of spiritual realities into terms meant for the material will take you. What you are saying may be valid as a metaphor, perhaps. But, molecules are simply the irreducible basic components of a substance, having certain properties, and made up of atoms joined by electromagnetic forces, Goodness and evil are not forces, but rather attributes of actions carried out by persons, and they have to do with the nature of the act and its intent.
 
I am very happy to see so many explore this extremely important question, among others.
 
Suffering builds character like nothing else. It also destroys character like nothing else.

How we respond to that suffering decides the matter.

We can ask God to help us through the suffering, or we can curse God.

Whichever route we choose tells a lot about ourselves.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Suffering builds character like nothing else. It also destroys character like nothing else.

How we respond to that suffering decides the matter.

We can ask God to help us through the suffering, or we can curse God.

Whichever route we choose tells a lot about ourselves.
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This just about sums it up,,,,,,
 
Achilles6129 said:
Some people suffer without doing anything to deserve suffering at all - for example, those that are born blind or acquire a terminal illness at a young age. Free will doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with suffering.
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👍 A world without suffering is an infantile fantasy:

385 God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or** the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures**: and above all to the question of moral evil.
 
tonyrey said:
👍 A world without suffering is an infantile fantasy:

385 God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or** the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures**: and above all to the question of moral evil.
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Excuses that are totally unnecessary. We are on our own, and always have been, or so I and many others believe.
 
oldcelt said:
A world without suffering is an infantile fantasy:
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“excuses” begs the question. You need to explain how one could escape the experience of suffering or** the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures**… Otherwise your conclusion is gratuitous and based solely on a preconceived view of God.
We are on our own, and always have been, or so I and many others believe.
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“many” and even the majority are often mistaken. Besides, if we always have been on our own then why believe in God? Total isolation is not a rational foundation for deism. Absolute silence indicates non-existence!
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Charlemagne_III said:
Suffering builds character like nothing else. It also destroys character like nothing else.

How we respond to that suffering decides the matter.

We can ask God to help us through the suffering, or we can curse God.

Whichever route we choose tells a lot about ourselves.
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True for adults. But there are infants and small children who are suffering also.
 
tonyrey said:
“excuses” begs the question. You need to explain how one could escape the experience of suffering or** the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures**… Otherwise your conclusion is gratuitous and based solely on a preconceived view of God.
“many” and even the majority are often mistaken. Besides, if we always have been on our own then why believe in God? Total isolation is not a rational foundation for deism. Absolute silence indicates non-existence!
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In all cases? That would rationally rule out all deities.
 
BackHand said:
This is a classic theological question, one that I have never had properly answered,
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What is wrong with suffering? The moth suffers in emerging from it’s cocoon, in fact, if you alleviate this suffering and help it by cutting away the cocoon, it will be twisted and malformed. It is that process that forms it properly.
 
BackHand said:
Also it could be argued this opens up a paradox.
God is all-powerful He is also completely and utterly kind.
Yet there is suffering.
So God is not all-powerful,
Conclusion there is no God
Or
God is not all kind
Conclusion God is evil

I am very interested to see your responses!
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“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus
 
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