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on_the_hill
Guest
D.G.-- I think there’s no point in replying to certain posts.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
It’s more strongly a part of my personal identity than a religious label, and one of the things that usually comes up as introductions. So I put it where people can see it.Software engineer! Cool religion.
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epan
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OK. Well in 1967 African Americans were still being lynched. By your standards, it appears that may have been an acceptable practice.
Tell me, do you favor the vote for women? Even if you do now, it seems that you would not have favored such a thing if this were 1920. I’ve heard the story of how upset, really apoplectic, my great grandmother was when a black news anchor appeared on the nightly news: “How dare they bring a n***** into my living room without my permission.” She could, in fact, explain quite succinctly how inter-racial marriage was against “natural law.” If you didn’t get that, then there must be something wrong with you. I don’t know if it was relevant that she was a very devout Catholic, who went to church daily, and who could recite the Catechism.
Bigotry always has an historic context. Lots of arguments are trotted out. It doesn’t matter whether they appeal to religious ideas, or they appeal to traditional practices. Some of us see social and moral progress as improving the human condition. Some of us believe in the continuing extension of social justice to redress moral wrongs committed against the previously oppressed.
You are not required to share that view, but you will continue to find yourself to be a member of an ever shrinking minority. In this particular case, 37 states plus Puerto Rico and growing.
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Captain_America
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This isn’t true. Psychology has clearly shown, many times now, that public opinion has a substantial impact on how we decide which behaviors to pursue. It does matter what is acceptable or not. This is just a fact of human life.
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Captain_America
Guest
Excellent points and well put.
There is a kind of social tearing and destruction here. On a moral level, we know that homosexuality is an unusual kind of evil----or perhaps we humans treat it differently from other evils around us, just because sexual pleasure is generally taken privately, and perhaps because most of us have reserve when discussing this subject area. It’s still evil, and a great hurt to those who practice it (although some may not admit this).
On a lower level, our society has a clear interest in the generation and inculcation of children. This is best done in a stable, two-parent, heterosexual family. This is the only real reason----the continuance of society’s population—that really allows the law to be involved here.
The notion of a marriage based only on love between two adults is pretty specious. Marriage is a life commitment, and the passions are----merely passions, which fade and change and are fickle as the wind.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
This!Perception becomes reality.To push disordered lifestyles as normal just another option,confuses our youth,leads them into making choices that are not healthy for them and society as a whole.This whole debate has now evolved into gender confusion,why all of a sudden is there such a preponderance of gender confused individuals?
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exnihilo
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I was disgusted. The citizens had just voted a couple years back to make clear in law what marriage is. The usurping Federal Courts invalidated and disenfranchised the voters of my state. Before I thought voting was a not just a waste of time but wrong now I believe that more than ever.
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Clinias
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Yes, isn’t the hypocrisy very clear in America. they tell us “We have a democracy” and then Federal Judges, Liberal/Marxist, then cancel out the vote of the majority! It is all hypocrisy. It is the rule of the Left. Whatever they want to do, they do it. They make the rules, and they can obey them or disobey them at will.
There is NO society in America. There is NO social cohesion. There is no racial homogeneity. No religious homogeneity. There is NO rule of Law. There is no ideological homogeneity. America is a Failed State. Yes, here in Michigan, the people said that marriage is between one man and one woman. The federal courts then set that aside! Do you live in a democracy? No. The rule of the Liberal Left from the Judicial Bench. They make it up as they go along. The same with Roe v. Wade. 49 states had laws against abortion. The U. S. Supreme Court with one swipe wiped out the laws of 49 states.
Christians and Atheists/Marxists/Liberals can NOT live together.
I believe that Christians have to return to the catacombs.
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JimG
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Does the public library stock nudist magazines? Does it carry child porn? Adult porn? Is there any category of material that it should not buy with public money? I presume that it must select some material and not others since it can’t buy everything. Does it give preference to porn if some patron demands it?
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exnihilo
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I agree with you, but it is not just the Liberal Left. There are plenty of Republican appointees in the Federal Courts. In fact the SCOTUS is still a majority Republican court. There are lots of excuses presented for why they side with the left, but excuses don’t make things better or undo the damage.
You are right there is no American society. We are atomized individuals. This is in part by plan. The government schools were expressly designed to create compliant citizens for the corporation and state. It is also the American principle, wether a corruption or not, that we are completely free of constraint from any authority, save the state. The family and church have no real authority. The state does not and cannot make a culture.
The solution is to recreate a culture. The state will object but that is the right direction. And because that is so salvation is not in getting the state to conform to ideals but getting people to conform to ideals.
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AnnieHall
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The United States is a federal republic.
Also, on any issue that is found to be unconstitutional (as determined by the judicial branch of government), the majority does not have the right to decide if it’s legal or not. If it’s unconstitutional, it’s impossible for something to be legal.
Of course then, the issue is with whether or not one agrees with the judicial branch on whether or not an issue is or is not constitutional.
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Jeanne_S
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Yes,we have judges legislating from the bench, Overturn the will of the people if their will happens not to conform to the all known all compassionate left.The arrogance is stunning!
We are living the consequences of a country run a mock! It really is diabolical.
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Mike_Dye
Guest
I didn’t react at all… just another day in the good ol’ USA. After the past few decades I didn’t expect much else.
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exnihilo
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The United States was sold as a federal republic. Now it is a de facto unary government with provinces. This was made undeniably clear when the federal government occupied the southern states, nullified those states making them into military provinces, and then allowed them to become states again only by voting to approve the 14th amendment.
The exclusive power to judge constitutionality which the federal courts claim to have is itself extra constitutional. They claimed the power and have been unchallenged. The case of same sex marriage is particularly interesting because the amendment used to force this, the 14th, was as I said earlier enacted by fraud and coercion.
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kozlosap
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I’m thankful that this issue will become mute in late June when the SCOTUS will issue their ruling on gay civil marriage equality. History makes it quite clear that progressive social decisions, such as women’s suffrage, child labor laws, racial discrimination issues and now gay marriage are quite literally, never repealed. The one glaring instance when this country spent thirteen years trying to legislate morality with the ban on alcohol was a huge failure which caused problems with crime that still exist today, 90 years later.
There are so many issues where we CAN make a difference such as education and help for people who are struggling just to feed their families. Spreading the Gospel with Joy as Papa Francis writes about is our chance to make a difference, not continually beating the dead mule of being anti-gay on all issues, including the belief that being LGBTQ is a conscious choice. Off course, this is worth less than $.2 an d just IMHO!
There are so many issues where we CAN make a difference such as education and help for people who are struggling just to feed their families. Spreading the Gospel with Joy as Papa Francis writes about is our chance to make a difference, not continually beating the dead mule of being anti-gay on all issues, including the belief that being LGBTQ is a conscious choice. Off course, this is worth less than $.2 an d just IMHO!
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Zoltan_Cobalt
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My reaction as each state legally recognizes a homosexual relationship as a marriage is one of grave concern.
My concern is for the many homosexual couples who are joyously celebrating weddings before the Supreme Court considers this matter. On April 28, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in four cases that could settle for once and for all whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry. A decision is expected in late June.
We must keep in mind that the Constitution does not guarantee the right to enter into a same-sex marriage. Indeed, no provision of the Constitution speaks to the issue of marriage.
It should be interesting…
My concern is for the many homosexual couples who are joyously celebrating weddings before the Supreme Court considers this matter. On April 28, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in four cases that could settle for once and for all whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry. A decision is expected in late June.
We must keep in mind that the Constitution does not guarantee the right to enter into a same-sex marriage. Indeed, no provision of the Constitution speaks to the issue of marriage.
It should be interesting…
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JimG
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Making same sex marriage legal is just one aspect of the war that is going on. Many Catholics seem to have laid down their arms and left the battle. That’s a bad decision; giving up will do no good for society. Caving in to the culture of death is the opposite of what the Church needs to be about.
“If the Catholic Church is to continue to teach the timeless truths about the dignity of all human persons from conception to natural death, and the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman, the Church needs to begin to seriously engage in the war that has already been declared against her by those who wish to destroy these teachings.”crisismagazine.com/2015/time-war
“If the Catholic Church is to continue to teach the timeless truths about the dignity of all human persons from conception to natural death, and the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman, the Church needs to begin to seriously engage in the war that has already been declared against her by those who wish to destroy these teachings.”crisismagazine.com/2015/time-war
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Havard
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There are rights and then there are laws enacted out of prudence, in furtherance of the common good. Freedom of association is a monolithic civil right, protected in the U.S. by the First Amendment. The government cannot tell you who you can spend time with, who you can love, who you can live with, etc. Free exercise of religion is also a monolithic civil right, enshrined by the First Amendment. The government cannot tell you to go through a sacramental marriage, nor can it prohibit you from doing so. The Church has no problems with any of that.
What the Church does say is that civil authorities have the duty to promote the natural family, as it is the cornerstone of society, and therefore its promotion is by definition, furtherance of the common good. The most common way civil authorities promote the natural families is by offering various special benefits such as estate tax exemptions or social security benefits for surviving spouses. You could argue ad nauseum about who is deserving of such benefits, but at the end of the day, these are prudential matters and not moral ones. By bringing same-sex partnerships into this marriage designation, civil authorities aren’t “finally uniting monolithic rights to people who were long deprived of them”, they are merely giving out benefits intended to promote the natural family to people other than the natural family.
Put another way, civil authorities give a lot of support to green energy industry. But not so much with coal and gas industries. Is this special treatment morally wrong? Not necessarily, it’s a prudential decision that civil authorities make in furtherance of the common good. I know it’s not an exact analogy, but it gets the idea across.
What the Church does say is that civil authorities have the duty to promote the natural family, as it is the cornerstone of society, and therefore its promotion is by definition, furtherance of the common good. The most common way civil authorities promote the natural families is by offering various special benefits such as estate tax exemptions or social security benefits for surviving spouses. You could argue ad nauseum about who is deserving of such benefits, but at the end of the day, these are prudential matters and not moral ones. By bringing same-sex partnerships into this marriage designation, civil authorities aren’t “finally uniting monolithic rights to people who were long deprived of them”, they are merely giving out benefits intended to promote the natural family to people other than the natural family.
Put another way, civil authorities give a lot of support to green energy industry. But not so much with coal and gas industries. Is this special treatment morally wrong? Not necessarily, it’s a prudential decision that civil authorities make in furtherance of the common good. I know it’s not an exact analogy, but it gets the idea across.
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Kal2012
Guest
To answer the question, my heart sank and I wondered what this world was coming to.
SSM is still on appeal in our state (MI), but just the way things are going, you know that it will be legalized by the US Supreme Court.
My heart breaks every time I really think about where the culture/society is going.
I really hate that traditional Christianity has become a joke in our society.
In part, I became a Catholic because of the Church’s stance on the social issues. The church is under a lot of pressure to change, but she’s not folding like a lot of other groups are doing. I have so much respect for that. I am thrilled that I am on the side of the RCC in this matter and can say I’m a Catholic.
Still, my heart breaks that Christianity has been corrupted by Christians who want the love and tolerance part of the gospel and not the repent and redemption from sin part of the gospel.
You really can’t have one w/o the other.
I have my great-grandfather’s Bible and he has one of these old cards from a revival he attended back in the day. It says that “the wages of sin is death”.
That resonates with me in light of this issue. That’s why my heart breaks.
SSM is still on appeal in our state (MI), but just the way things are going, you know that it will be legalized by the US Supreme Court.
My heart breaks every time I really think about where the culture/society is going.
I really hate that traditional Christianity has become a joke in our society.
In part, I became a Catholic because of the Church’s stance on the social issues. The church is under a lot of pressure to change, but she’s not folding like a lot of other groups are doing. I have so much respect for that. I am thrilled that I am on the side of the RCC in this matter and can say I’m a Catholic.
Still, my heart breaks that Christianity has been corrupted by Christians who want the love and tolerance part of the gospel and not the repent and redemption from sin part of the gospel.
You really can’t have one w/o the other.
I have my great-grandfather’s Bible and he has one of these old cards from a revival he attended back in the day. It says that “the wages of sin is death”.
That resonates with me in light of this issue. That’s why my heart breaks.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
Sadly,many Catholics,capitulating to political correctness in the guise of compassion are in direct conflict with the Church on this issue. Just look how Archbishop Cordelione. (Sp?) of SanFrancisco is being challenged by Catholics in his diocese for wanting Catholic school
to adhere to Catholic doctrine.
Within our own parish our parochial vicar was given a tongue lashing by some parishioners for actually speaking out against civi SSUnions!
Christ said,pray that you aren’t put to the test,we are and are failing miserably.
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