How did you react when same sex marriage became legal?

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

You could argue ad nauseum about who is deserving of such benefits, but at the end of the day, these are prudential matters and not moral ones. By bringing same-sex partnerships into this marriage designation, civil authorities aren’t “finally uniting monolithic rights to people who were long deprived of them”, they are merely giving out benefits intended to promote the natural family to people other than the natural family.

Since it is an undisputed FACT that homosexual activity spreads disease (as evidenced by the CDC warning that the spread of STDs within the gay community is as epidemic levels) I would suggest that government is **not **acting prudentially at all. Rather, by legitimizing homosexual relationships, it is promoting a sexual activity that is a danger to ALL of society.

 

[centerbe]

Since it is an undisputed FACT that homosexual activity spreads disease (as evidenced by the CDC warning that the spread of STDs within the gay community is as epidemic levels) I would suggest that government is **not **acting prudentially at all. Rather, by legitimizing homosexual relationships, it is promoting a sexual activity that is a danger to ALL of society.

This argument is specious. HIV infection rates in North America are less than 1% for the general population. Sub-Saharan Africa has the highest HIV infection rates in the world with over 20% of the general population. Swaziland has an HIV infection rate of 26% of the general population, the highest in the world (source: UNICEF).The spread of HIV in this part of the world is not caused by homosexual promiscuity.

The central issue for SSM is equal rights in my opinion. That is how SSM got approved here in Canada. Men and women have the right to marry whether it is opposite sex or same sex. That is likely how it will go down in the USA I believe. Natural law arguments will not prevail over equal rights arguments.

Sacramental marriage will not change regardless. The Catholic Church will continue to marry men and women as they always have.

 

[JimG]

To answer the question, my heart sank and I wondered what this world was coming to.

SSM is still on appeal in our state (MI), but just the way things are going, you know that it will be legalized by the US Supreme Court.

My heart breaks every time I really think about where the culture/society is going.

I really hate that traditional Christianity has become a joke in our society.

In part, I became a Catholic because of the Church’s stance on the social issues. The church is under a lot of pressure to change, but she’s not folding like a lot of other groups are doing. I have so much respect for that. I am thrilled that I am on the side of the RCC in this matter and can say I’m a Catholic.

**Still, my heart breaks that Christianity has been corrupted by Christians who want the love and tolerance part of the gospel and not the repent and redemption from sin part of the gospel. **

You really can’t have one w/o the other.

I have my great-grandfather’s Bible and he has one of these old cards from a revival he attended back in the day. It says that “the wages of sin is death”.

That resonates with me in light of this issue. That’s why my heart breaks.

It seems that many want no part of the gospel whatsoever, unless it tells them that anything they do is okay. In fact, many are intent on destroying Christianity altogether.

 

[JimG]

Sadly,many Catholics,capitulating to political correctness in the guise of compassion are in direct conflict with the Church on this issue. Just look how Archbishop Cordelione. (Sp?) of SanFrancisco is being challenged by Catholics in his diocese for wanting Catholic school
to adhere to Catholic doctrine.
Within our own parish our parochial vicar was given a tongue lashing by some parishioners for actually speaking out against civi SSUnions!
Christ said,pray that you aren’t put to the test,we are and are failing miserably.

It is outrageous for any Catholic to support same sex unions.

 

[Havard]

This argument is specious. HIV infection rates in North America are less than 1% for the general population. Sub-Saharan Africa has the highest HIV infection rates in the world with over 20% of the general population. Swaziland has an HIV infection rate of 26% of the general population, the highest in the world (source: UNICEF).The spread of HIV in this part of the world is not caused by homosexual promiscuity.

The central issue for SSM is equal rights in my opinion. That is how SSM got approved here in Canada. Men and women have the right to marry whether it is opposite sex or same sex. That is likely how it will go down in the USA I believe. Natural law arguments will not prevail over equal rights arguments.

Sacramental marriage will not change regardless. The Catholic Church will continue to marry men and women as they always have.

Except the U.S. government discriminates all the time. We have an entire body of jurisprudence devoted to corralling when the government can make exceptions to equal protection, based on three tiers of judicial review. Affirmative action, for instance, is allowable under the highest standard, called strict scrutiny, because it promotes a “compelling” government interest. Programs that discriminate based on sex and sexual orientation merely need to meet the intermediate level of scrutiny, which requires that the law only be related to an “important” (lower standard than compelling) government interest.

Promotion of the natural family as an important government interest is a no-brainer. It takes quite a bit of philosophical hocus-pocus to argue otherwise.

 

[David_Goliath]

Yes, isn’t the hypocrisy very clear in America. they tell us “We have a democracy” and then Federal Judges, Liberal/Marxist, then cancel out the vote of the majority! It is all hypocrisy. It is the rule of the Left. Whatever they want to do, they do it. They make the rules, and they can obey them or disobey them at will.
**
There is NO society in America. There is NO social cohesion. There is no racial homogeneity. No religious homogeneity. There is NO rule of Law**. There is no ideological homogeneity. America is a Failed State. Yes, here in Michigan, the people said that marriage is between one man and one woman. The federal courts then set that aside! Do you live in a democracy? No. The rule of the Liberal Left from the Judicial Bench. They make it up as they go along. The same with Roe v. Wade. 49 states had laws against abortion. The U. S. Supreme Court with one swipe wiped out the laws of 49 states.

Christians and Atheists/Marxists/Liberals can NOT live together.

I believe that Christians have to return to the catacombs.

Racial homogeneity? Religious homogeniety? Isn’t it a good thing to be hetereogenous in regards to race and religion. I would feel uncomfortable in a place where everybody was the same race and religion. Do you want to live in an in all (INSERT YOUR RACE HERE) nation?

Does Catholicism promote racial homogeneity?

I have no idea why you think the USA is such a bad country. There are Burmese immigrants (now USA citizens) working in a food truck outside the hospital I work at. They are glad to live in this country. From what I know they are Christian, but not Catholic. They mentioned something to me before about being glad to live in a country with religious freedom.

If you want religious homogeneity, do you advocate a Catholic state? If so, how should other religions or people with no particular religion (be they deist, atheist, agnostic, whatever) be treated?

Do any other Catholics here advocate that the USA turn homogenous in regards to religion and race?

If you want racial homogeneity, what race? White? What kind of white person? French, German, Italian? Are Turks considered white if they are part of the European Union?

 

[David_Goliath]

As to the charge that “libraries aren’t Christian reading rooms”, just shows up the fallacy of Americanism. Atheists/Secularists/Materialists and Christians can not live together. St. Paul says, “Don’t be unequally yoked”. Who writes the rules? Atheists/Secularists/Materialists or Christians? That the first part thinks it is alright to present obscene material where children are present shows their total lack of sense, of righteousness, of prudence, and of leadership.

It is nonsensical that two of the same kind “marry”. It is not a part of Western Culture or Western Civilization or a part of Christianity. It doesn’t make sense. Who rules this country–Secularists/Marxists or Christians? Christendom is not based on religious liberty. In Classical Antiquity thru the Middle Ages Church and State went together. It is a modern invention of liberalism, satanic and perverse, that wants to separate religion from government.

What gay marriage is all about is just thumbing one’s nose at God. Plutarch, a priest at the Temple of Delphi, said,

We do not make the Laws. God does. A Christian’s responsibility is to God, first and foremost. What God wants–is what a Christian does. It is “Thy Will be done”.

It has nothing to do with being a “threat” but everything to do with Righteousness. It is abnormal that two people of the same sex marry. It is unnatural. It is abhorrent to the senses. The Natural Law is “The combination of two different but related pieces”. You can’t “join” two of the same thing nor can they reproduce.

The question is Do we uphold our traditions and culture of Christendom or adhere to Cultural Marxism, of Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevism? That is the question.

Christendom? You prefer to live in a Christian theocracy as opposed to a secular state that offers religious freedom?

 

[Clinias]

Sadly,many Catholics,capitulating to political correctness in the guise of compassion are in direct conflict with the Church on this issue. Just look how Archbishop Cordelione. (Sp?) of SanFrancisco is being challenged by Catholics in his diocese for wanting Catholic school

I have a saying,

Modern Roman Catholicism is nothing more than Marxism with a cross.

Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism. It has been taught in America in the halls of higher education since the sixties. It started with the Frankfurt School. The Frankfurt School was mostly based in Southern California, and in the Ivy League and then spread. It is called “Critical Theory” and it is about deconstructing all social mores. As Catholics are immersed in this society they are picking up political correctness.

Another thing when the lady says many Catholics are “capitulating” is that the Church has grown effeminate, soft. There is a huge problem with the masculinizing of males. What is happening is that Atheists, which was part of the Frankfurt School, have no morality from on high, from a transcendent source. So Morality becomes sentimentality–i.e. compassion. That is Atheist morality. That is Progressive morality. Sentimentality is confused with Morality. This is why this is difficult. As more people become feminized, morality becomes not law based but feelings based. This is why the original post asked about “Your feelings”.

In the Old Testament, God asked hard things from the Hebrews. Many times they wouldn’t do it. God told them to take the Promised Land. They refused. So He made them wander in the desert for forty years to wipe that effeminate generation out. There are other examples in the OT. God asked them to wipe out a whole town. The Hebrews saved a part of the population. God punished them again.

God asks Hard things. If you are too effeminate to carry it out------God will punish YOU! A lot of Roman Catholics have become soft and have adopted sentimentality as a morality. Plato quotes a saying from the Spartans,

---

“The Good comes thru the Hard”.***

A soft people can NOT do The Good. It is impossible. St. Paul said, the effeminate will not enter into the kingdom of God. Compassion and sentimentality is not morality or ethics. The Law of God is. What does God command? Jesus said, “If you love me, you will obey me”.

Homosexuality is an aberration just as much as mental and physical disorders are. Because Homosexuality is a disorder of the sexual libido, it has to be proscribed because unlike the mentally retarded or the physically impaired, they do proselytize, they do seek to evangelize others to the Homosexual lifestyle stunting other people.

Christianity is about Normality. What is Normal. Homosexuality has to be suppressed, kept in the closet for those thus afflicted. By marrying Homosexuality becomes normalized and celebrated by the Secular State as Normal—Against God.

Catholics work for God; Our duty is to God. God wants homosexuality suppressed. It is not normal. Catholics have to stand up and say NO. They have to find their backbone–because if they don’t—they will share in the fire of Hell.

It seems that Cultural Marxism is seeping throughout the Church. It is a heresy that needs to be rooted out completely!

 

[Personanongrata]

My reaction as each state legally recognizes a homosexual relationship as a marriage is one of grave concern.

My concern is for the many homosexual couples who are joyously celebrating weddings before the Supreme Court considers this matter. On April 28, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in four cases that could settle for once and for all whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry. A decision is expected in late June.

We must keep in mind that the Constitution does not guarantee the right to enter into a same-sex marriage. Indeed, no provision of the Constitution speaks to the issue of marriage.

It should be interesting…

I don’t believe for one moment that the SCOTUS is going to take rights away from it’s citizens. And I don’t think they will allow states to decide. To do so would create far worse chaos.

This whole gay marriage thing is such a non-issue. It’s time to move on.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Christendom? You prefer to live in a Christian theocracy as opposed to a secular state that offers religious freedom?

Following Christ and His commsnds provide true freedom…He is the Way,the Thruth and the Life…

 

[Havard]

I don’t believe for one moment that the SCOTUS is going to take rights away from it’s citizens. And I don’t think they will allow states to decide. To do so would create far worse chaos.

This whole gay marriage thing is such a non-issue. It’s time to move on.

Pope Francis doesn’t think it’s a non-issue. At all. “The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life.” (Jan. 16.)

 

[Clinias]

Mr. Goliath, I think you are going to suffer from Cultural Shock. I see that you have totally imbibed Liberalism and Cultural Marxism. I also see that you are not too conversant on Roman Catholicism.

*Racial homogeneity? Religious homogeniety? Isn’t it a good thing to be hetereogenous in regards to race and religion. I would feel uncomfortable in a place where everybody was the same race and religion. Do you want to live in an in all (INSERT YOUR RACE HERE) nation? *

A “Pluralistic society” is an oxymoron. Furthermore, the word “nation” is from the Latin “natus” that means ONE birth, ONE language. Hetereogeny is not a good. The Natural Law, which all things obey in the animal world and which Socrates points out in Plato’s Republic is “Birds of a Feather flock together”.

*Does Catholicism promote racial homogeneity? *

Catholicism does teach that Catholics must adhere to the Common Good. The Common Good and the Natural Law teach homogeneity. What is difficult is Proportion. Too much of anything destroys.

*I have no idea why you think the USA is such a bad country. There are Burmese immigrants (now USA citizens) working in a food truck outside the hospital I work at. They are glad to live in this country. From what I know they are Christian, but not Catholic. They mentioned something to me before about being glad to live in a country with religious freedom.

If you want religious homogeneity, do you advocate a Catholic state? If so, how should other religions or people with no particular religion (be they deist, atheist, agnostic, whatever) be treated?*

Pope Leo XIII condemned certain aspects of Americanism. He didn’t go far enough. All of Americanism needs to be condemned. I turn you to these two documents:

Pope Leo XIII Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/L13TESTE.HTM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy

*Do any other Catholics here advocate that the USA turn homogenous in regards to religion and race?

If you want racial homogeneity, what race? White? What kind of white person? French, German, Italian? Are Turks considered white if they are part of the European Union? *

Turks are not Europeans. The European Union is a Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevist creation. Just look at the flag–Stars. It is modeled upon America which has this Masonic saying on its seal: “E pluribus Unum”, “Out of many, One”. Which is the rebuilding of the Tower of Babel. God expressly condemns the Tower of Babel in Genesis. He called it evil. America is a miniature Tower of Babel. This is what Freemasonry seeks to do; that is why they are called “Masons” for; for they seek to rebuild the Tower of Babel.

Christendom? You prefer to live in a Christian theocracy as opposed to a secular state that offers religious freedom?

America is a failed state. It is an ochlocracy which next devolves into Tyranny. We are in that stage.

As a Roman Catholic, I am of the Old Order. My duty, My loyalty is to the Old Order. America is a Novus Ordo and several Popes have condemned Modernism. America is the seat of Modernism in all of its aspects.

America is fast becoming the two things that God personally destroyed in the bible: Sodom and Gomorrah and the Tower of Babel.

 

[on_the_hill]

David Goliath—unless a lot of folks are trolling you just for the heck of it, I have to say that many of these posts are not representative and frankly, are downright scary.

And irksome.

For all I know, they’re a couple 18 year old kids who haven’t got their heads screwed on right yet.

Maybe a Mod will swing past and close this thread. Hopefully.

 

[David_Goliath]

Mr. Goliath, I think you are going to suffer from Cultural Shock. I see that you have totally imbibed Liberalism and Cultural Marxism. I also see that you are not too conversant on Roman Catholicism.

A “Pluralistic society” is an oxymoron. Furthermore, the word “nation” is from the Latin “natus” that means ONE birth, ONE language. Hetereogeny is not a good. The Natural Law, which all things obey in the animal world and which Socrates points out in Plato’s Republic is “Birds of a Feather flock together”.

Catholicism does teach that Catholics must adhere to the Common Good. The Common Good and the Natural Law teach homogeneity. What is difficult is Proportion. Too much of anything destroys.

Pope Leo XIII condemned certain aspects of Americanism. He didn’t go far enough. All of Americanism needs to be condemned. I turn you to these two documents:

Pope Leo XIII Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/L13TESTE.HTM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy

Turks are not Europeans. The European Union is a Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevist creation. Just look at the flag–Stars. It is modeled upon America which has this Masonic saying on its seal: “E pluribus Unum”, “Out of many, One”. Which is the rebuilding of the Tower of Babel. God expressly condemns the Tower of Babel in Genesis. He called it evil. America is a miniature Tower of Babel. This is what Freemasonry seeks to do; that is why they are called “Masons” for; for they seek to rebuild the Tower of Babel.

America is a failed state. It is an ochlocracy which next devolves into Tyranny. We are in that stage.

As a Roman Catholic, I am of the Old Order. My duty, My loyalty is to the Old Order. America is a Novus Ordo and several Popes have condemned Modernism. America is the seat of Modernism in all of its aspects.

America is fast becoming the two things that God personally destroyed in the bible: Sodom and Gomorrah and the Tower of Babel.

Well yes, that was a culture shock.

There are other Catholics on this same thread that do not share your views. Who is correct? I have a catechism (the little one, “compedium”) and read it in entirety. (I study religion, and minored in anthropology in university with an emphasis on anthropology/history of religion)

I’m still confused about your comments on racial homogeneity. Too much of --what— exactly is bad? Asian Americans make up something like ~5-6 percent of the USA population? Is that “too much”? What do you mean my racial homogeneity and why does Catholicism consider racial homogeneity is a bad thing?

When you mention “Old Order” are you referring to the way things were run when the Catholic Church and the State were combined in the Middle Ages (as you mentioned earlier)?

 

[Jeanne_S]

David Goliath—unless a lot of folks are trolling you just for the heck of it, I have to say that many of these posts are not representative and frankly, are downright scary.

And irksome.

For all I know, they’re a couple 18 year old kids who haven’t got their heads screwed on right yet.

Maybe a Mod will swing past and close this thread. Hopefully.

To whom are you referring?

 

[David_Goliath]

Mr. Goliath, I think you are going to suffer from Cultural Shock. I see that you have totally imbibed Liberalism and Cultural Marxism. I also see that you are not too conversant on Roman Catholicism.

A “Pluralistic society” is an oxymoron. Furthermore, the word “nation” is from the Latin “natus” that means ONE birth, ONE language. Hetereogeny is not a good. The Natural Law, which all things obey in the animal world and which Socrates points out in Plato’s Republic is “Birds of a Feather flock together”.

Catholicism does teach that Catholics must adhere to the Common Good. The Common Good and the Natural Law teach homogeneity. What is difficult is Proportion. Too much of anything destroys.

Pope Leo XIII condemned certain aspects of Americanism. He didn’t go far enough. All of Americanism needs to be condemned. I turn you to these two documents:

Pope Leo XIII Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/L13TESTE.HTM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy

Turks are not Europeans. The European Union is a Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevist creation. Just look at the flag–Stars. It is modeled upon America which has this Masonic saying on its seal: “E pluribus Unum”, “Out of many, One”. Which is the rebuilding of the Tower of Babel. God expressly condemns the Tower of Babel in Genesis. He called it evil. America is a miniature Tower of Babel. This is what Freemasonry seeks to do; that is why they are called “Masons” for; for they seek to rebuild the Tower of Babel.

America is a failed state. It is an ochlocracy which next devolves into Tyranny. We are in that stage.

As a Roman Catholic, I am of the Old Order. My duty, My loyalty is to the Old Order. America is a Novus Ordo and several Popes have condemned Modernism. America is the seat of Modernism in all of its aspects.

America is fast becoming the two things that God personally destroyed in the bible: Sodom and Gomorrah and the Tower of Babel.

Would you be content with a Catholic state that still separated non-Catholics from Catholics?For example Jews into ghettos being forced to wear badges, even if it was with the “laudable” intent to stop the spread of “heresy” (ie, anything not Catholic)?

Would you support this:
“As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in 1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.””

Do you want other religions to be of second class status?

What is so wrong with the way the USA is now. It’s like we are all on bus and we all have a seat, right? I have never met an American in person or even online who WANTED what you describe, which frankly, is borderline (if not actually) Totalitarian.

 

[David_Goliath]

Mr. Goliath, I think you are going to suffer from Cultural Shock. I see that you have totally imbibed Liberalism and Cultural Marxism. I also see that you are not too conversant on Roman Catholicism.

A “Pluralistic society” is an oxymoron. Furthermore, the word “nation” is from the Latin “natus” that means ONE birth, ONE language. Hetereogeny is not a good. The Natural Law, which all things obey in the animal world and which Socrates points out in Plato’s Republic is “Birds of a Feather flock together”.

Catholicism does teach that Catholics must adhere to the Common Good. The Common Good and the Natural Law teach homogeneity. What is difficult is Proportion. Too much of anything destroys.

Pope Leo XIII condemned certain aspects of Americanism. He didn’t go far enough. All of Americanism needs to be condemned. I turn you to these two documents:

Pope Leo XIII Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/L13TESTE.HTM

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy

Turks are not Europeans. The European Union is a Judeo-Masonic-Bolshevist creation. Just look at the flag–Stars. It is modeled upon America which has this Masonic saying on its seal: “E pluribus Unum”, “Out of many, One”. Which is the rebuilding of the Tower of Babel. God expressly condemns the Tower of Babel in Genesis. He called it evil. America is a miniature Tower of Babel. This is what Freemasonry seeks to do; that is why they are called “Masons” for; for they seek to rebuild the Tower of Babel.

America is a failed state. It is an ochlocracy which next devolves into Tyranny. We are in that stage.

As a Roman Catholic, I am of the Old Order. My duty, My loyalty is to the Old Order. America is a Novus Ordo and several Popes have condemned Modernism. America is the seat of Modernism in all of its aspects.

America is fast becoming the two things that God personally destroyed in the bible: Sodom and Gomorrah and the Tower of Babel.

Again with the Jewish conspiracy.
“Jewish” is a complicated identify of culture, “race” (complicated) and religion. Just because some atheist “Jews” started something does not mean it represents Judaism as a religion.

 

[Havard]

David Goliath—unless a lot of folks are trolling you just for the heck of it, I have to say that many of these posts are not representative and frankly, are downright scary.

And irksome.

For all I know, they’re a couple 18 year old kids who haven’t got their heads screwed on right yet.

Maybe a Mod will swing past and close this thread. Hopefully.

Rather than shutting things down over about a couple of people that seem particularly excited, I humbly suggest engaging in the people that aren’t. Like me… hi.

 

[Mark121359]

It was devastating. And as others have pointed out, I was sickened by the liberal activist judges who took it upon themselves to decide what the definition of marriage should be. But, do you want to know what’s really disappointing? Our Catholic brothers and sisters who take the “it’s no big deal” or “it doesn’t really bother me” attitude. Or worse still, flat-out support it. It gives me the sobering realization that if as Catholics we can’t stand united…then we don’t have a prayer to ever enact any real change. And we’ll just continue to reap what we sow.

Peace, Mark

 

[David_Goliath]

It was devastating. And as others have pointed out, I was sickened by the liberal activist judges who took it upon themselves to decide what the definition of marriage should be. But you want to know what’s really disappointing? Our Catholic brothers and sisters who take the “it’s no big deal” or “it doesn’t really bother me” attitude. It gives me the sobering realization that if as Catholics we can’t stand united…then we don’t have a prayer to ever enact any real change. And we’ll just continue to reap what we sow.

Peace, Mark

message deleted. I noticed the question answered elsewhere.