How do catholic women or men justify their consciences with using contraception?

[shelby_sun]

Suffice it to say, Shelby, I really do hope there are no eternal consequences for your choices. I hope, somehow, that we are all wrong, and the millions of contracepting couples have nothing to worry about. It’s a gamble I’d be too afraid to take, but since you’ve decided to take it and feel no remorse or guilt, I very much hope you are correct in that God will understand. It may be the case, too, that at some point you will feel guilt and remorse. If that happens, please don’t feel too proud to seek absolution via the sacrament of reconciliation. He is waiting and ready to forgive those who ask and seek repentance.

I NEVER said God will understand. never. Again, I have NO problem with peoples responses. I do have a problem with people misquoting me which is complete unfair and wrong, and has happened more than once now. I have no idea how God feels, none. I have no idea how forgiving or damning he will be. Yes there are millions of couples or singles making the same choice has I did for many different reasons, none I am saying are justified, and God will have to decide what to do with all of us, but don’ t think for a minute I think He will just save me anyway.

 

[KellyPalmer]

Yes well I lack many things. Those who judge others hopefully are doing it for all the right reasons. Only God knows their true heart, but there are some who are also misguided in the act of judging. I always find it interesting that there are some people who think themselves worthy of judging other when we are all sinners. How can I judge a sinner, when I too am a sinner? Sorry, not the way was brought up. The Jesuit way is not to point out all the sins of people around them and to quote scripture all the time. They are much more about telling us God loves us even though we are sinners and how much He loves us and wants to help us.

We are all lacking but there is good news! We don’t have to rely on ourselves!! We can ask God to give us the gift of humility. We can’t do this on our own! If no one ever judged the actions of others, it would be harder to learn. I’m very thankful for those who have judged me and told me so. Is it hard to hear sometimes? Yes! Have I handled it perfectly when told? No! But had they never challenged me, I’d likely be living with those sins without repentance to this day. Some issues I didn’t even realize where sins and while that does change my culpability, it doesn’t change the fact that those actions came between me and God. And there is the chance to remove what is in the way and become closer to Him. All of us have that chance at any moment. That’s the good news! I feel what you are saying about throwing around scripture to judge others but remember, you brought it up first as a reason not to be called to task for your sin. That’s really the other side of the same stick.

 

[Kelfa28]

I cringe at this person’s arrogance and pride. Every time I look up at the cross, I weep for my sins that put Jesus there. I have so many regrets and past sins that I wonder how I can even make it to Purgatory let alone Heaven. That is one hardened heart.

I feel the same way. It kills me knowing what I did in my past…I regret it so much. The Church teachings are crystal clear on the matter. Therefore God is crystal clear on the matter. Contraception is wrong and a grave matter.

I was following this thread but I cannot anymore. It’s upsetting to read some of these posts. All I can do is pray and pray and pray some more.

I do pray that God is a merciful God…but I could never presume His judgement upon me before it’s my time. That is His decision. I can only follow Christ and His teachings.

 

[shelby_sun]

Oh, Juliane - God is your father. Would you not forgive your own children even the most grievous insult if they came and begged you for forgiveness? You are such a good role model and advocate on CAF. You have shown many people truth and light. I have full confidence in God’s unimaginable mercy for those who seek it. It is so much deeper than our own ability to forgive. I have to believe that. Otherwise we are ALL damned because we’ve all done hideous, terrible things.

And I have to believe in God’s transformative power. No one is a lost cause until the end… Even if they present very stubbornly on the internet

I don’t mean to be stubborn, I am try to be honest. Just because I have not come around to your way of thinking, I am stubborn? Again, on a thread like this are only those who have an opinion about the people actually doing the action in question allowed to post? I have first hand experience and knowledge, I am not promoting it, I am not saying I am right, and I have never said The churches teaching are wrong. I said I was a sinner and I made the choice over and over and would do it again, so how could I ever be bold as to one day ask for forgiven for it.

So was this thread just for others to speculate and judge.If that was what it was meant to be than I am sorry I posted.

 

[shelby_sun]

I cringe at this person’s arrogance and pride. Every time I look up at the cross, I weep for my sins that put Jesus there. I have so many regrets and past sins that I wonder how I can even make it to Purgatory let alone Heaven. That is one hardened heart.

You know I was trying to be honest. I never said I was right, I said I prayed over it, I said I was a sinner and was not worthy of forgiveness, I never promoted it or said the church was wrong When I came to this site, it was people like you that maid me question whether I wanted to stay in the church. I work at a Catholic school and just don’t find people to be like this, but even so this site made me question. Now with Pope Francis I have a renewed faith in the church, but not in people like you. I won’t open up and admit I am a sinner.

 

[JackieMom]

You know I was trying to be honest. I never said I was right, I said I prayed over it, I said I was a sinner and was not worthy of forgiveness, I never promoted it or said the church was wrong When I came to this site, it was people like you that maid me question whether I wanted to stay in the church. I work at a Catholic school and just don’t find people to be like this, but even so this site made me question. Now with Pope Francis I have a renewed faith in the church, but not in people like you. I won’t open up and admit I am a sinner.

So you know what you’re doing is wrong, but still do it anyway? I think this is what has people confused. I think people assumed you were trying to justify your actions.

 

[Demetra2]

You have simply stated that you know what the Church teaches and choose not to obey. You find NFP too difficult or unreliable. You could abstain from sex in this case, but you apparently choose not to. And you have asked for forgiveness, though you haven’t stopped the behavior, which makes true absolution extremely difficult unless one is an addict.

None of that is judging you as a person, just stating facts as presented.

I am sorry if this comes across as defensive but you need to g back and read my post because you have misspoken twice here on things I said.

1 I never said I though NFP was to difficult or unreliable for me. We had to use it to try to get pregnant and my husband became extremely frustrated and angry, so he wanted no part of it again.

1. I NEVER asked for forgiveness, nor will I. I made that very clear. I knew when I continued the behavior what I was doing. I haven’t used contraception in over 10 years but I would still never ask for forgiveness for what I did.

I understand people needing to respond to my post. I expected that, but you might go back and read some. I am not naive, or misguided and I fully understand what the church reaches. Again, I do not promote contraception, I was answering the question, not trying to convince anyone what I was doing was right.

To ask, when a post like this is put up, should no one that actually has first hand knowledge of this situation answer and just let others speculate and give their opinions on people they have never even met.

If you were currently using contraception and fully intended to persist in that sin I can understand why you would not want to confess it until you were contrite. But here you are stating that you have not used contraception for 10 years but yet you still cling to the sin. I just want to encourage you to pray for courage and to ask God to give you the humility to be able to admit where you went wrong. Jesus loves you and all of us because we are all sinners. He came to save us. He is patiently waiting for all us to come to Him. Our dear most compassionate Lord has an ocean of Mercy for us while we are alive but Justice after we pass on. I hope you can help yourself. You will feel truly wonderful, free and light after a good confession. I wish you the best.

 

[Demetra2]

You know I was trying to be honest. I never said I was right, I said I prayed over it, I said I was a sinner and was not worthy of forgiveness, I never promoted it or said the church was wrong When I came to this site, it was people like you that maid me question whether I wanted to stay in the church. I work at a Catholic school and just don’t find people to be like this, but even so this site made me question. Now with Pope Francis I have a renewed faith in the church, but not in people like you. I won’t open up and admit I am a sinner.

Dear One,you are quite mistaken if you think you are not worthy of forgiveness. Jesus was crucified for that very reason. So we could receive the sacrament of reconciliation no matter how awful we think we are .He told St Faustina that a person can have sins as red as scarlet and he will forgive if they ask Him. But you must ask, And you must be sorry. And you must try to do better even if you fail many times. We just went celebrated Easter and I learned that the difference between St Peter who became our first pope and Judas was that St. Peter asked for forgiveness and was deeply sorry for denying Christ where as Judas did not. He clung to his sin. Perhaps he did not feel that he could be forgiven. Peter sets an example for us all.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Oh, Juliane - God is your father. Would you not forgive your own children even the most grievous insult if they came and begged you for forgiveness? You are such a good role model and advocate on CAF. You have shown many people truth and light. I have full confidence in God’s unimaginable mercy for those who seek it. It is so much deeper than our own ability to forgive. I have to believe that. Otherwise we are ALL damned because we’ve all done hideous, terrible things.

And I have to believe in God’s transformative power. No one is a lost cause until the end… Even if they present very stubbornly on the internet

You are very nice to say this. Don’t want to let this thread be about me, just wrote my heartfelt pain at having grieved my Father in Heaven for so many years…I know I am forgiven, but the temporal consequences remain…and of course, I continue to sin. Perhaps not in those ways, but in others. Every time I receive absolution in the confessional, I am beyond grateful for that sacrament. I think, “I need this more often,” not, “I will never confess X because I have no regret over it.” There is nothing in my life that is worth risking hell for. Nothing.

In fact, almost every day, I thank God that I didn’t die while in such deep sin.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

You are very nice to say this. Don’t want to let this thread be about me, just wrote my heartfelt pain at having grieved my Father in Heaven for so many years…I know I am forgiven, but the temporal consequences remain…and of course, I continue to sin. Perhaps not in those ways, but in others. Every time I receive absolution in the confessional, I am beyond grateful for that sacrament. I think, “I need this more often,” not, “I will never confess X because I have no regret over it.” There is nothing in my life that is worth risking hell for. Nothing.

In fact, almost every day, I thank God that I didn’t die while in such deep sin.

Divine Mercy Sunday is coming up!

You could obtain a plenary indulgence (I don’t recall all the necessary parts) But you might apply it to a loved one, or you might apply it to yourself. If I understand correctly, all your temporal consequences will be washed away. (or as much as you are disposed to it.)

 

[JackieMom]

You are very nice to say this. Don’t want to let this thread be about me, just wrote my heartfelt pain at having grieved my Father in Heaven for so many years…I know I am forgiven, but the temporal consequences remain…and of course, I continue to sin. Perhaps not in those ways, but in others. Every time I receive absolution in the confessional, I am beyond grateful for that sacrament. I think, “I need this more often,” not, “I will never confess X because I have no regret over it.” There is nothing in my life that is worth risking hell for. Nothing.

In fact, almost every day, I thank God that I didn’t die while in such deep sin.

Well, and that’s the sad thing about people who sin thinking they can always go to confession later. Not only is it presumptuous, but does not eradicate temporal consequences OR the real pain they have possibly caused to others. Still, think of how pleased God is every time we point others toward Him and away from wrongdoing! That must count for shaving a few days off of our time in purgatory, right!? We can hope!

 

[The_Bucket]

But here you are stating that you have not used contraception for 10 years but yet you still cling to the sin.

Yeah that’s something that makes absolutely no sense. Staying obstinate in a sin… that you’re no longer committing? Why? Just so you can look back on your life and feel justified? That’s what it sounds like. But there are so many contradictions.

Why can you admit that you’re a sinner but cannot admit that you sinned in that one case? The only thing I can think of is that you’re not sorry and you’re not sorry because you wanted control and you go it. You can’t feel sorry for doing something that made you “feel good” or have anxieties taken away or whatever else. You can’t “feel sorry” because you actually rejoice in the products of the sin.

That’s the only thing I can think of that would prevent someone from repenting from an old sin, a sin that’s not being repeated anymore.

Honestly, that’s one of the most crazy prideful things I’ve ever heard. “I know I’m a sinner and I feel confident going before the Lord and saying ‘forgive me God, a sinner,’ but I’m not going to actually repent for my sins because I’m happy about the consequences of my sin.” There’s a massive logical disconnect there.

I mean, think of what it would sound like if I said… “God, I know I’m a sinner. And I know I shot this guy in the face who was a real jerk. The thing is God, I’m not sorry for shooting this guy because he was a true scumbag and needed killing. Everybody agreed on that. So, please forgive me God. I know I’m a sinner. I know I’m not worthy of your love. I know I’ve done evil. But I’m glad I shot that one guy. My life and the lives of others were better off without him. So I’m not going to repent for that. But in general I know I’m not a saint and I know I need your mercy. So… are we good here?”

 

[shelby_sun]

Yeah that’s something that makes absolutely no sense. Staying obstinate in a sin… that you’re no longer committing? Why? Just so you can look back on your life and feel justified? That’s what it sounds like. But there are so many contradictions.

Why can you admit that you’re a sinner but cannot admit that you sinned in that one case? The only thing I can think of is that you’re not sorry and you’re not sorry because you wanted control and you go it. You can’t feel sorry for doing something that made you “feel good” or have anxieties taken away or whatever else. You can’t “feel sorry” because you actually rejoice in the products of the sin.

That’s the only thing I can think of that would prevent someone from repenting from an old sin, a sin that’s not being repeated anymore.

Honestly, that’s one of the most crazy prideful things I’ve ever heard. “I know I’m a sinner and I feel confident going before the Lord and saying ‘forgive me God, a sinner,’ but I’m not going to actually repent for my sins because I’m happy about the consequences of my sin.” There’s a massive logical disconnect there.

I mean, think of what it would sound like if I said… “God, I know I’m a sinner. And I know I shot this guy in the face who was a real jerk. The thing is God, I’m not sorry for shooting this guy because he was a true scumbag and needed killing. Everybody agreed on that. So, please forgive me God. I know I’m a sinner. I know I’m not worthy of your love. I know I’ve done evil. But I’m glad I shot that one guy. My life and the lives of others were better off without him. So I’m not going to repent for that. But in general I know I’m not a saint and I know I need your mercy. So… are we good here?”

WOW, it is a wonder how people can twist things said, you are almost frighting. You can choose to read it however you like, although it is about as unchristian as it gets. It is wrong in the eyes of the church, that is why I will not ask for forgiveness. Those that know me and not CHOOSE to read things they want to than you God to judge other, know there is absolutely nothing prideful about me. I am not worthy of any forgiveness and it is scary that so many of you think you are. Good luck with all that judging in the name of God. I hope it gets you to heaven much faster.

 

[JackieMom]

WOW, it is a wonder how people can twist things said, you are almost frighting. You can choose to read it however you like, although it is about as unchristian as it gets. It is wrong in the eyes of the church, that is why I will not ask for forgiveness. Those that know me and not CHOOSE to read things they want to than you God to judge other, know there is absolutely nothing prideful about me. I am not worthy of any forgiveness and it is scary that so many of you think you are. Good luck with all that judging in the name of God. I hope it gets you to heaven much faster.

We aren’t worthy of anything, but through the sacrament of reconciliation we are assured of our forgiven status (provided we meet the requirements for a valid confession - one being that we do regret our actions.). I don’t think anyone is judging you, Shelby. According to our faith (one which you claim to share), some things are always objectively wrong. There is no wiggle room that we know of. It’s not judgmental to point that out. And yes, saying that you realize what you are doing or have done is immoral but have zero regrets over it does come across as prideful and just plain strange.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

WOW, it is a wonder how people can twist things said, you are almost frighting. You can choose to read it however you like, although it is about as unchristian as it gets. It is wrong in the eyes of the church, that is why I will not ask for forgiveness. Those that know me and not CHOOSE to read things they want to than you God to judge other, know there is absolutely nothing prideful about me. I am not worthy of any forgiveness and it is scary that so many of you think you are. Good luck with all that judging in the name of God. I hope it gets you to heaven much faster.

You keep insisting that you are not worthy of forgiveness. Yet how can you say that when you refuse to ASK for forgiveness? Forget about the Church - it’s God’s law that we are following. Why would you not be worthy of forgiveness if I am? I used contraception, for about 20 years. I regret not only that but the reasons I used it in the first place, as well as the outcomes (some of which I probably won’t know until I get to purgatory). I know it is God’s law that I broke, and I took it to confession. It was hard to do that, and I sure didn’t feel worthy of forgiveness, but I knew that I was, if that makes sense. We are harder on ourselves than Jesus is.

Insisting that one is unworthy of forgiveness is a form of spiritual pride. “I am worse than everyone else.” You’re no different than any of us. And God forgives everything, if you only ask Him. I think you believe that you really have nothing to confess, that you were not wrong, and you are willing to risk, as you said earlier, because you believe in what you did at the time.

 

[Suslar]

Yes well I lack many things. Those who judge others hopefully are doing it for all the right reasons. Only God knows their true heart, but there are some who are also misguided in the act of judging. I always find it interesting that there are some people who think themselves worthy of judging other when we are all sinners. How can I judge a sinner, when I too am a sinner? Sorry, not the way was brought up. The Jesuit way is not to point out all the sins of people around them and to quote scripture all the time. They are much more about telling us God loves us even though we are sinners and how much He loves us and wants to help us.

Hi there Shelby! I had the great opportunity to learn catechism from one of the best Jesuit minds of the last 100 years or so - Fr. John Hardon, S.J. Yes, I’d give just about anything for 30 more minutes with him now! Still, I remember distinctly that he explained how the phrase “live and let live” is characteristically unChristian because it means “I’ll live my life over hear apart fro yours. And you do what you want over there and never shall they meet.” That’s NOT what Jesus called us too. He called us to community. He called us to love and care for one another. He called us to love one another enough to help them recognize error and to let them point out our error. I can almost hear Fr. Hardon say, “Evaluating a situation is not the same a judgment.” (meaning, I can determine if something is right or wrong without determining fate - which is reserved for God alone). So it hurts me to read these posts about “judging.” Especially after you mentioned the Jesuit way which absolutely revolves around living in community and loving one another enough to speak Truth always.

But Fr. Hardon also insisted that God’s mercy far outweighs His justice. God is constantly being extremely lenient toward us as a loving Father rather than giving us what we deserve. God sent His own son to free us from sins. There is no human being who is, was or will be exempt from this Great Gift. Do we “deserve” forgiveness? Um . .is that like asking if we deserved to have Christ die for us? No, of course we don’t deserve that. But the fact is, He already did die AND rise again! As His followers, we share in the fullness of Jesus’ life and in that unending mercy. Jesus gave us the Sacrament of Reconciliation because He knew none of us could live up to the standard. He wants us to remain in His love. That is the Jesuit way - to preach love. We cannot be both living God’s love and still be in sin.

I’m sorry if you feel you are being attacked, Shelby. Certainly not my intent. I know no one on CAF can convince another person with an argument. Still, I want you to know that even though we’ve never met, I do love you and care about your immortal soul enough to say that I am praying for you and hoping you will find a more conscientious priest to talk with about these things. (I know it is easy for me to find “liberal” priests who will help me justify sin if I want - they tend to be between 45-60 years old - poor training in seminary). The women chatting with you here (myself included) can say “been there - done that” to much of your story. . . . AND that we found such healing in the Sacrament of Penance. When you know better, you do better. That’s all - we’re just hoping you might find consolation in knowing we’re walking the journey with you . . .but we want to rush you up to the really good resting place in the meadow that’s just beyond this forest . . . .It’s a different perspective from here. You can lay down the burden you’ve been carrying for 10+ years and find peace beyond all imagining and understanding. . . .

God’s blessings.

 

[Suslar]

Divine Mercy Sunday is coming up!

You could obtain a plenary indulgence (I don’t recall all the necessary parts) But you might apply it to a loved one, or you might apply it to yourself. If I understand correctly, all your temporal consequences will be washed away. (or as much as you are disposed to it.)

Isn’t God amazing with His perfect timing of things!!!

 

[Suslar]

I wonder, OP, do you have a satisfactory answer to your question?

 

[einna]

OK I have a question. If Shelby does not believe the church is right about the use of contraception ans so does not believe it is wrong for her to use it, like the vast majority of Catholics today, she would not need to ask for forgiveness because she doesn’t think she is actually sinning, right. But it sounds like she knows the Church believes it is wrong so she should not ask for forgiveness because that makes her unworthy in her eyes.

If she does not believe it is a sin, should she leave the church? It doesn’t sound like she would fit in with some of the people on this post or in the Catholic church. If she has prayed over it and can simply not honesty believe it was wrong what would you have her do? I found nothing prideful in her post and find it sad that people cannot see how truly unworthy she feels, that is not pride but lack of self love.

People read on these post what they want and sometimes not what is there. She has been correct that she was misquoted a couple of time, which I too take issue with. If people are going to comment, especially in such a way, they really should know exactly what they are commenting on. For those who have said there has been no judging here, you can use carefully selected, non hostile words and tie it up in a pretty package and deliver it with a smile, but that does it mean you aren’t passing judgment, and a few post have no doubt been judgmental.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

I got to ask this question to one of my friends after she asked me and my wife about NFP. Her response was that her mimaw had told her that it was ok to use contraception. I don’t suppose I can really blame her if her mimaw says it is ok. So poor teaching is one aspect of it.

There are also many who know about the teaching but just can’t live up to it. Celibacy is a difficult lifestyle to adapt to for a married couple. You grow accustomed to being with one another and then that part of your life is no more. It is a high standard to live up to and it isn’t surprising that many people fail. I don’t suppose you would ask, “how do so many climbers justify turning back on Everest?” The answer is obvious, climbing Everest is tough and it shouldn’t be a surprise that many people don’t make it.