How do catholic women or men justify their consciences with using contraception?

[HouseArrest]

OK I have a question. If Shelby does not believe the church is right about the use of contraception ans so does not believe it is wrong for her to use it, like the vast majority of Catholics today, she would not need to ask for forgiveness because she doesn’t think she is actually sinning, right. But it sounds like she knows the Church believes it is wrong so she should not ask for forgiveness because that makes her unworthy in her eyes.

If she does not believe it is a sin, should she leave the church? It doesn’t sound like she would fit in with some of the people on this post or in the Catholic church. If she has prayed over it and can simply not honesty believe it was wrong what would you have her do? I found nothing prideful in her post and find it sad that people cannot see how truly unworthy she feels, that is not pride but lack of self love.

People read on these post what they want and sometimes not what is there. She has been correct that she was misquoted a couple of time, which I too take issue with. If people are going to comment, especially in such a way, they really should know exactly what they are commenting on. For those who have said there has been no judging here, you can use carefully selected, non hostile words and tie it up in a pretty package and deliver it with a smile, but that does it mean you aren’t passing judgment, and a few post have no doubt been judgmental.

I think this happens all the time. People have a difficult time understanding why certain sins are actually sins… so they feel stuck. They can’t confess because they just don’t “get it” and can’t “feel” sorry.

In this case the person probably needs to ask God to help him see the light. And he can go to confession and tell the priest the situation. He can say he doesn’t understand but he is sorry because he knows his actions offend God, even if he doesn’t understand that his actions offend God.

As far as judging goes, Shelby, I had it explained this way to me and it makes sense. We are actually called to judge others actions. When we look at examples that are have little or no emotion attached it is an easier concept to understand. We tell our little kids not to touch a hot stove because they might get hurt. We profess “friends don’t let friends drive drunk”. These two are equivalent to letting others know contraception is wrong.

Now, what we are not to do it judge the state of another’s soul. I am not to say to you that your soul is destined for Hell because of your actions. I am not to express on facebook that I hope that a mass shooter be damned.

There is a difference.

 

[einna]

I think this happens all the time. People have a difficult time understanding why certain sins are actually sins… so they feel stuck. They can’t confess because they just don’t “get it” and can’t “feel” sorry.

In this case the person probably needs to ask God to help him see the light. And he can go to confession and tell the priest the situation. He can say he doesn’t understand but he is sorry because he knows his actions offend God, even if he doesn’t understand that his actions offend God.

As far as judging goes, Shelby, I had it explained this way to me and it makes sense. We are actually called to judge others actions. When we look at examples that are have little or no emotion attached it is an easier concept to understand. We tell our little kids not to touch a hot stove because they might get hurt. We profess “friends don’t let friends drive drunk”. These two are equivalent to letting others know contraception is wrong.

Now, what we are not to do it judge the state of another’s soul. I am not to say to you that your soul is destined for Hell because of your actions. I am not to express on facebook that I hope that a mass shooter be damned.

There is a difference.

OK I see your point.

 

[Suslar]

There are also many who know about the teaching but just can’t live up to it. Celibacy is a difficult lifestyle to adapt to for a married couple. You grow accustomed to being with one another and then that part of your life is no more. It is a high standard to live up to and it isn’t surprising that many people fail. I don’t suppose you would ask, “how do so many climbers justify turning back on Everest?” The answer is obvious, climbing Everest is tough and it shouldn’t be a surprise that many people don’t make it.

Kostya, I’m not sure I understand your point. Who is asking married couples for celibacy? That would be unusual to say the least. I think what has been said so far is about temporary abstinence for a few fertile days to avoid conceiving for serious reasons. I assure you, abstaining for a few days is NOT celibacy! At least in such a mutual decision to abstain, you can look forward to a time together again. Those of us forced into celibacy (by circumstances) don’t have that hope coming any time soon!

Did you mean something different?

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Why is it so wrong that married couples want to have sex but don’t want (more) children?

 

[Suslar]

Why is it so wrong that married couples want to have sex but don’t want (more) children?

Fodder for another thread???
We’ve already taken things way of topic once or twice . . . . .

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Kostya, I’m not sure I understand your point. Who is asking married couples for celibacy? That would be unusual to say the least. I think what has been said so far is about temporary abstinence for a few fertile days to avoid conceiving for serious reasons. I assure you, abstaining for a few days is NOT celibacy! At least in such a mutual decision to abstain, you can look forward to a time together again. Those of us forced into celibacy (by circumstances) don’t have that hope coming any time soon!

Did you mean something different?

A few days? That is certainly a very optimistic way to look at it.

In my experience NFP isn’t significantly different than completely abstaining and is much more challenging. Or to put it another way, “Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation.”

So no, NFP isn’t the exact same as celibacy because celibacy is much easier!! With NFP you have the responsibility of taking care of a spouse and the difficulty of, for all intents and purposes, living like a celibate.

I suppose you can put a more positive spin on it and say you get the grace that comes with abstinence and the companionship that comes with living with your bestie. But still, it is not a few simple days and then time together. In the real world it is extended periods of abstinence and then the slim possibility of coitus (assuming no sick children, visitors, business trips, ect) So I was saying men and women give up NFP because it is tough. Worth it, but still very tough.

 

[Suslar]

A few days? That is certainly a very optimistic way to look at it.

In my experience NFP isn’t significantly different than completely abstaining and is much more challenging. Or to put it another way, “Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation.”

So no, NFP isn’t the exact same as celibacy because celibacy is much easier!! With NFP you have the responsibility of taking care of a spouse and the difficulty of, for all intents and purposes, living like a celibate.

I suppose you can put a more positive spin on it and say you get the grace that comes with abstinence and the companionship that comes with living with your bestie. But still, it is not a few simple days and then time together. In the real world it is extended periods of abstinence and then the slim possibility of coitus (assuming no sick children, visitors, business trips, ect) So I was saying men and women give up NFP because it is tough. Worth it, but still very tough.

hen perhaps you’re not using NFP correctly if there are “extended periods of abstinence”? Most women are only fertile for a small window of time each month. Or is it that everyday life is interfering (kids, visitors, business, etc)? That’s not fair to make it sound like NFP is “tough” or overly complicated. It’s a very good method. It worked well for me when I was married. And, having once been married, and then being “suddenly single” and not by my choice, celibacy is MUCH, MUCH more difficult. I know those who have not walked in my shoes cannot understand what I’m saying - and I certainly don’t wish the situation on anyone. So maybe we can ask those who had been married and then found themselves suddenly alone and living celibacy: Is it easier to live this life than having a loving partner and using NFP?

Maybe my vision is blurred because I deeply desire to be able to give myself to a husband and help ensure he makes it Home to Heaven. If I’m overly optimistic, it’s in hoping my spouse and I will be able to share intimate moments in addition to the marital embrace.

 

[UUTDad]

I don’t have any difficulty justifying it at all. I just don’t believe that the church has the right to tell me and my wife what type of birth control we should or shouldn’t use. When the church decides to start helping me with financial and child care responsibilities, then we can talk.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I don’t have any difficulty justifying it at all. I just don’t believe that the church has the right to tell me and my wife what type of birth control we should or shouldn’t use. When the church decides to start helping me with financial and child care responsibilities, then we can talk.

It’s GOD’S law, not the Church’s. Or, rather, it’s GOD’S law expressed through the Church. And hey! Guess what! God gives you everything you have in your life to care for and support your family and children!

Sheesh. What an attitude.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

How is it that so many Catholics don’t know that the Church’s teachings are God’s teachings? Seriously. Did they skip all religious education and sleep through all Masses?

 

[jmcrae]

I would say the vast majority of Catholics don’t give it much of a second thought. They may or may not realize the church teaching, but if they do, I don’t believe they view it with the same gravity as the church does. Besides, it is so common place in society there are few opportunities for it to register with them that what they are doing is seriously wrong. Even church going Catholics will most likely not hear more than a passing mention of contraception from the pulpit. I have attended mass weekly for at least 15 years at several parishes, and can not remember a single homily that focused on contraception.

You can’t go anywhere in my Diocese without tripping over a “Theology of the Body” conference or a “Life Workshop” - it doesn’t have to be in a homily; there are lots of venues where people of the right age can gather and learn the Catholic teachings on sexuality.

Our former Pastor actually forbade these things in our parish; the parents just started putting them on at their homes - the teens cannot escape these teachings, even if the Pastor won’t touch them with an eleven-foot pole.

 

[KellyPalmer]

How is it that so many Catholics don’t know that the Church’s teachings are God’s teachings? Seriously. Did they skip all religious education and sleep through all Masses?

I’ve been going to Catholic Mass for nearly 35 years and I have never once heard the church’s teachings on this during Mass. I can’t recall it ever being mention in religious ed either and I went faithfully my entire childhood. Because I was so poorly catechized, I married outside the church therefore didn’t have preCana. However my dh and I chose to go through preCana when we had our convalidation after 12 years of civil marriage. Even then, the teachings were not provided. The Deacon barely touched on NFP and basically said he’s sure most of us are already contracepting and his best effort was to urge everyone to think about NFP. He never went into any of the specific teachings and nothing on the deeper meaning behind the teachings. It was such a disappointment and dh and I were hoping to learn something. Waste of time.

 

[KellyPalmer]

You can’t go anywhere in my Diocese without tripping over a “Theology of the Body” conference or a “Life Workshop” - it doesn’t have to be in a homily; there are lots of venues where people of the right age can gather and learn the Catholic teachings on sexuality.

Our former Pastor actually forbade these things in our parish; the parents just started putting them on at their homes - the teens cannot escape these teachings, even if the Pastor won’t touch them with an eleven-foot pole.

You are lucky! There’s nothing around here like that. At all.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Wow.

I’m an adult convert to Catholicism, so I guess I knew all this stuff going in, because I’d done my research.

 

[Rose74]

Um, I never heard about The church’s teachings on ABC until adulthood. My confirmation teacher told us about how her daughters were on the pill and she made it sound like that was just normal. Of course, at the time I knew sex before marriage was a no no, so the pill before marriage was bad, but I didn’t know it was bad for married people. That was with 12 years of Catholic school.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Wow.

Your confirmation teacher should never have been in a religious education position.

Is it just America that’s so bad?

 

[KellyPalmer]

Wow.

I’m an adult convert to Catholicism, so I guess I knew all this stuff going in, because I’d done my research.

My husband converted as an adult and he was never taught a word about any of this in RCIA. He was also never taught that our marriage wasn’t valid. So he entered into the church and immediately began living in sin, unknowingly . I didn’t find out until 5 years after he joined the church. Thankfully, the contraception issue wasn’t something that effected us too greatly as we both have fertility problems and I’m just naturally against hormonal BC just out of common sense. We have spent nearly our entire marriage TRYING to have babies, not trying to avoid it. We wish we could get pregnant easier. Still, I think it would have helped to have known these things, just the mindset would have been helpful to our relationship.

I’m so glad I finally thought to start researching stuff on my own. I guess I trusted those in the church, as well as my Catholic family, to have taught me properly but we have realized now that we can’t rely on that.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

This is America, right? Now I’m wondering how much American Catholics don’t know. Sounds like the American Church needs a serious purging through the RE programs.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve been going to Catholic Mass for nearly 35 years and I have never once heard the church’s teachings on this during Mass. I can’t recall it ever being mention in religious ed either and I went faithfully my entire childhood. Because I was so poorly catechized, I married outside the church therefore didn’t have preCana.

Where on earth were your parents and grandparents all this time?

Wasn’t there someone in your life who clued you in that they couldn’t come to the wedding because it was not valid according to the Church?

However my dh and I chose to go through preCana when we had our convalidation after 12 years of civil marriage. Even then, the teachings were not provided. The Deacon barely touched on NFP and basically said he’s sure most of us are already contracepting and his best effort was to urge everyone to think about NFP. He never went into any of the specific teachings and nothing on the deeper meaning behind the teachings. It was such a disappointment and dh and I were hoping to learn something. Waste of time.

The Deacon may not have been a qualified NFP instructor, and he also may not have considered it his role to provide detailed instructions.

Check with your Diocese; they probably have an association of NFP instructors who will put you in touch with someone who can give you the proper kind of instruction.

 

[KellyPalmer]

Where on earth were your parents and grandparents all this time?

Wasn’t there someone in your life who clued you in that they couldn’t come to the wedding because it was not valid according to the Church?

The Deacon may not have been a qualified NFP instructor, and he also may not have considered it his role to provide detailed instructions.

Check with your Diocese; they probably have an association of NFP instructors who will put you in touch with someone who can give you the proper kind of instruction.

My parents and grandparents were there. IIRC, my mom was the one who told me we couldn’t marry in the church. We had our rehearsal dinner at my grandparent’s home. Even my great grandmother was there. All Catholic. No one said a word to me about it. I don’t think they knew. I actually think there was a time when it was believed that you couldn’t marry in the church if both were not Catholic. That was either reality or a widely held myth. Back then, communication and information wasn’t as easily accessible. Because of this, none of the four of us kids married in the church as we all married non-Catholics (very low Catholic population here).

I’m sure the Deacon was not an NFP instructor but why do people in my diocese not receive catechesis on the teachings of the church regarding sex, marriage, contraception, etc when preparing for marriage? The preCana was more like a secular ‘how to get along’ retreat. Very very disappointing. My diocese is actually over an hour away from my home. I haven’t been able to find any Catholic NFP instructors in my immediate area. The closest is 45+ minutes away through a busy/congested tunnel and she isn’t responding to my attempts to contact her. We actually want to take an NFP class to TTC.