How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

[maryj]

let me save some time – I’ve very aware of the RCC view of this concept. The communion of saints includes those both alive and dead – the physically dead saints are alive in Christ (in heaven). We collectively compromise the body of Christ. Up to here I agree – but I won’t follow the rabbit trail down the road to veneration or the idea of intercession. It’s improper, has pagan roots, and therefore it’s heretical.

O.K then if you agree to that point…that there is a bond of unity among all believers, both living and dead, who are committed followers of Christ. We collectively compromise the Body of Christ, let’s throw in for good measure we are branches connected to Christ the vine, than we are also connected to each other.
St. Paul emphasizes this unity in Christ’s body in 1 cor. 12:12-27 and in Romans 12; 4-16.
Just as Paul asked fellow believers(saints) to pray for him (Rom 15:30 Col 4:3 1 Thess 5:25 Eph 6:18-19 Thess 3:1), now we can ask Paul and the other saints in heaven to pray for us. I don’t think that sounds pagan.

 

[CentralFLJames]

No church named, no title recognized, no age recognized.

More unbiblical comments easily rebuked.

Here is:
Church Foundation Named & Church explicitlty Recognized & Promised that it will not die of old age.

Matthew 16:16
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

James

 

[HamtramckSteve]

preaching that she is in hypostatic union with the Trinity is heresy.

“Hypostatic union” does not refer to Mary, but to Jesus; specifically the joining of his two natures.

Any unity Mary has with the Trinity is simply the same unity we will all have in Heaven with the Trinity.

Please, please study the issues. Two messages show you’re not really understanding what Nestorianism is and the how the church answered it.

 

[maryj]

Moreover, I object to the idea that Mary is a queen of heaven & frankly find it heretical. Mary is not the Ark, she is not the mediatrix of all graces, she is was not both the spouse of the Holy Spirit while also the temporal spouse of Joseph (the very idea teeters on blasphemy), and she was not the prototype for perfect love (Scripture clearly states Jesus is the prototype for perfect love).

St. Ambrose, one of the “four” eminent Fathers of the Church details several ways in which the Ark of the Covenant prefigured Mary: “The Ark contained the tablets of the law; Mary contained in her womb the heir of the Testament. The Ark bore the Law; Mary bore the Gospel. The Ark made the voice of God heard; Mary gave us the very Word of God. The Ark shown forth with the purest of Gold; Mary shown forth both inwardly and outwardly with the splendor of virginity. The gold which adorned the Ark came from the interior of the earth; the gold with which Mary shone forth came from the mines of Heaven.”

 

[maryj]

“Hypostatic union” does not refer to Mary, but to Jesus; specifically the joining of his two natures.

Any unity Mary has with the Trinity is simply the same unity we will all have in Heaven with the Trinity.

Please, please study the issues. Two messages show you’re not really understanding what Nestorianism is and the how the church answered it.

Oh Sola, here you go…bartleby.com/65/ne/Nestornsm.html

 

[dan1el]

I prefer to take Paul’s attitude:

"But of these who seemed to be somewhat [Peter, James and John], (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person) for they who seemed to be…"Galatians 2:6

“And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision…” Galatians 2:9

“But when Cephas (Peter) came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned…” Galatians 2:11

God is no respecter of persons; if the “father” of the Catholic faith (as you purport him to be) needed correction and was prone to error, what makes you think that you are any more infallible?

This has gone on for ages; when will you ever understand?

God’s power and love is far greater than what the Catholics have made available to people… so many people kiss their little cross or idols and then go on sinning, understanding no truth, and continuing to live without the love and communion with the Holy Spirit… it shouldn’t be this way…

God bless us with the knowledge whereby Your grace and powerful reality is delivered to us.

 

[Our_Refuge]

Mary was more than just holy. She was chosen from the very beginning of time as the Mother of Christ. Mary is foretold as the “woman” whose seed , Jesus Christ, will bruise/crush Satan
Genesis 3:15 " I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

In Luke 1:43-48 it says this about Mary, " Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb… And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed."
All generations should call her “Blessed” Virgin Mary

We see in Revelation that Mary is in heaven, body and soul, and upon her head a crown and then a vision of the birth of Jesus with Satan seeking to destroy this child.

Rev. 12 :1-5
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. … And she brought forth a male child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

We see that Mary brought forth Jesus who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron a reference to Psalm 2] and that Jesus would ascend to heaven and to God the Father and his throne.

What other woman gave birth to a male child that ascended into heaven and whose offspring “keep the comandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus”?

Rev. 12 :1-5
And she brought forth a male child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Rev 12:13-17
“And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child…Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”
Those who keep the commandments, Christians, are her offspring
.
Jesus refers to this “woman” in Genesis.
John 19:26-27” When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.”

 

[dan1el]

We see in Revelation that Mary is in heaven, body and soul, and upon her head a crown and then a vision of the birth of Jesus with Satan seeking to destroy this child.

Rev. 12 :1-5
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. … And she brought forth a male child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

We see that Mary brought forth Jesus who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron a reference to Psalm 2] and that Jesus would ascend to heaven and to God the Father and his throne.

What other woman gave birth to a male child that ascended into heaven and whose offspring “keep the comandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus”?

Rev. 12 :1-5
And she brought forth a male child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Rev 12:13-17
“And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child…Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”
Those who keep the commandments, Christians, are her offspring
.
Jesus refers to this “woman” in Genesis.
John 19:26-27” When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.”

Okay, either the woman it is speaking of is Mary OR Mary is not a virgin. Why? Because it says in Rev 11:17that the dragon goes to make war with the “rest of her children”.

However, if you want to know who this woman is, you see that she has a crown of 12 stars - and these 12 stars are the 12 angels who stand guard at the 12 entrances into the New Jerusalem in Rev 21:12

The woman in Revelaion 12 is not Mary.

In the Bible, “gates/walls” speak of the mind, “stars” speak of sons of God, whether angelic or human ("…for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.")
Therefore, I understand through the Word of God, that this woman is the heavenly Jerusalem, according to Galatians 4:26, or don’t you think that is actaully where the Son came from - His home country?

 

[East_and_West]

Okay, either the woman it is speaking of is Mary OR Mary is not a virgin. Why? Because it says in Rev 11:17 that the dragon goes to make war with the “rest of her children”.

However, if you want to know who this woman is, you see that she has a crown of 12 stars - and these 12 stars are the 12 angels who stand guard at the 12 entrances into the New Jerusalem in Rev 21:12

The woman in Revelaion 12 is not Mary.

In the Bible, “gates/walls” speak of the mind, “stars” speak of sons of God, whether angelic or human ("…for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.")
Therefore, I understand through the Word of God, that this woman is the heavenly Jerusalem, according to Galatians 4:26, or don’t you think that is actaully where the Son came from - His home country?

This woman, is the mother of Christ, if you hadn’t noticed. Thus, she MUST be Mary. Now Mary may be a symbol of the heavenly Jerusalem/The Church/Israel. But it does not the change the fact that the woman in Revelation 12 is the mother of Christ and that the mother of Christ is Mary. Come on protestants. Let’s not engage in hermenuetical acrobatics to try and defend indefensible positions. This is just more proof that Protestantism is an unbibical, and man made religion.

 

[dan1el]

I’m not the one believing in a religion based on a complete lack of the miraculous.

The Scriptures are very clear; did you even read what was written?

What is written is written, and human doctrines, no matter how much you believe in them, cannot bring you power - which is why you lack the same.

 

[cathopologist]

What is written is written, and human doctrines, no matter how much you believe in them, cannot bring you power - which is why you lack the same.

I agree. I wonder why Protestants rely on man-made doctrines so much instead of focusing on Christ, His COMPLETE teachings and His promises.

 

[dan1el]

The hardest member for us to crucify is our brains - our own opinions…

“If they would only stop speaking their own words…” Is 58

But OFCOURSE there is so much GARBAGE in Protestantism it is sickening; in that, I agree with you.

 

[East_and_West]

I’m not the one believing in a religion based on a complete lack of the miraculous.

The Scriptures are very clear; did you even read what was written?

What is written is written, and human doctrines, no matter how much you believe in them, cannot bring you power - which is why you lack the same.

I did read what is written. And by reading the scriptures honestly, one will find that Catholicism is the faith established by Jesus and Protestantism is simply a religion created in the fifteen hundreds by an angry, and probably obssessive compulsive, monk. Catholics choose the 2000 year old Gospel of Christ. Protestants choose the 500 year old Gospel of men.

 

[dan1el]

I didn’t mean “the Scriptures”, but the ones which outlined the woman seen in heaven in Rev 12.

Well, if that’s what you believe, then you’ll continue believing it. I have no interest further than divulging the truth. My point is that I don’t believe that any structure is 100% correct, but not that God didn’t ordain structure; there has to be a balance.

 

[East_and_West]

Well, if that’s what you believe, then you’ll continue believing it. I have no interest further than divulging the truth. My point is that I don’t believe that any structure is 100% correct, but not that God didn’t ordain structure; there has to be a balance.

Then I guess you don’t believe the promises of scripture concerning the Church:
The church is called “The pillar and foundation of truth”
Christ promises that he will send the spirit to lead into "all truth’
and Christ promised “You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
Again, Protestantism is just not a biblical religion.

 

[East_and_West]

I didn’t mean “the Scriptures”, but the ones which outlined the woman seen in heaven in Rev 12.

The woman in Revelations 12 is the mother of Christ. Mary is the Mother of Christ. Therefore, the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary. Plain and simple.

 

[dan1el]

The church is not a building.
The “church” is the greek word which means “congregation”; not the building, or YOUR organization. I, for one, understand that within the many Christian organizations, Jesus Shepherds not all…

“For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you” 1 Corinthians 11:19

 

[dan1el]

The woman in Revelations 12 is the mother of Christ. Mary is the Mother of Christ. Therefore, the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary. Plain and simple.

You need to look again.

I guess we all came out of her physical body, too, right? Rev 11:17

 

[East_and_West]

The church is not a building.
The “church” is the greek word which means “congregation”; not the building, or YOUR organization. I, for one, understand that within the many Christian organizations, Jesus Shepherds not all…

“For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you” 1 Corinthians 11:19

Who ever said that the Church is a building? I never did, nor did any Catholic. The Church is the community of believers established by Jesus Christ as his body, his bride. But if you are following a false, man-made, religion (i.e. Protestantism) how can you be a believer in the full sense of the word? You are adhering the traditions of men, rather than the Catholic faith established by Jesus.
And the scriptures mention factions, not brand new man made religions and sects.

 

[dan1el]

Who ever said that the Church is a building? I never did, nor did any Catholic. The Church is the community of believers established by Jesus Christ as his body, his bride. But if you are following a false, man-made, religion (i.e. Protestantism) how can you be a believer in the full sense of the word? You are adhering the traditions of men, rather than the Catholic faith established by Jesus.
And the scriptures mention factions, not brand new man made religions and sects.

This had to occur, because God told you to go into all the world, and instead of listening to Him, you tried to make a name for yourself, just as what happened with the sons of Noah, and eventually, God had to confound their languages, so that they would obey.