How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

ufamtobie · Sep 13, 2008

SIA said:
And how do you justify Mary queen of Heaven by the Scriptures? And, prove to me how Mary plays any role whatsoever in our Salvation?

Sia,

Before we all existed God had a plan to create us all, since God knows all things past, present, and future, God knew that he had to create a UNIQUE human that will one day carry His SON, just like the Ark of the Covenant that carried the Word of God, and as we all know, that the WORD of God is Jesus Christ now in the flesh.

Now this Old Ark was made Very Unique by God Design for it will hold the WORD of GOD.

Now the WORD of God has been made Flesh in the NEW ARK. And this New ARK, is the Blessed Virgin Mary, whom she was not made like the Old Ark made by mens hands following God’s pattern This New Ark “Virgin Mary” is not made by human hands this NEW ARK was Soley made by God’S Hand Unique and pure and Unspotted FOREVER! Virgin Mary had the Will to choose or not to choose God’s Plan for our SALVATION.

Sia, it is scary to imagine Virgin Mary using her right, Her WILL, to say No?

As we all know Virgin Mary, the New Eve, the New Living Ark, the Queen Mother, said YES!!!

Did not Virgin Mary through her YES give us LIFE, “Who is Jesus” …Did not Virgin Mary give us SALVATION “Who is Jesus” So YES!!! Virgin Mary has a ROLE in Our Salvation unlike anyother human being beside Jesus.

Sia, Truth is EVERYONE PLAYS A ROLE IN ONES SALVATION!

Does not the pastor down the street bring Salvation “Who is Jesus” to those who LISTEN to him ect…?

We are our brothers keeper:thumbsup:

Truth is Jesus Christ is the source of Our Savation… Truth is. there is No other Human being that comes close to the Virgin Mary in regards to OUR SALVATION For She said YES

She was there at the BEGINING She was there at the End. SHE will be there to greet us as Queen and Mother in Heaven for all eternity:thumbsup: Wether you believe it or not and how emmbarassed will you be, when you confront her.

Food for thought: As Adam & Eve ate the apple and played a role in our sinfulness, Jesus the source of Salvation & Virgin Mary as Co-redemtrix in our Salvation. Amen

Sia, Don’t every King have a Queen Mother?

(Rev 12: 1) A great sign appeared in the sky, a Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and on her head a CROWN of twelve stars.

UFAMTOBIE

Sailka · Sep 13, 2008

sola_scriptura said:
I would be glad to defend to my doctrines (although I’m not a pure Calvinist as I do not necessarily believe in predestination to damnation).

Here’s the main points I believe in with regard to predestination:

Predestination of the “saints” (the faithful in Christ) as a unilateral act of providence and an eternal decree

Perseverance (confidence of the believer)

Code:

3) All aspects of grace are not universally given to mankind

I could get into other stuff – but these set of beliefs are the main ones I accept with regard to predestination.

I need to step out for about an hour or so, but if anyone wants to start a thread – perhaps you could call it “predestination” (or something like that) rather than using Calvin’s name (since I do not entirely agree with all of his doctrines).

As for being tossed to the lions – perhaps we can skip any references to the gladiator games

Thanks

Code:

                                                                                           General Catholic perspectives:                                                   (1) Predestination  of Anyone to Heaven is Contrary to the Bible.  We are  Informed we must try Not to Sin/Break Commandments.  When we do, we must  Repent, ask for forgiveness,   and do  payback.   Those are the verses ignored in the One verse 'born again, saved'.  Are more
                                               (2)  I  don't understand  'perseverance'                                         (3)  All aspects of Grace are universally  Available to All.                 
                                                                                           So Lion games are acceptable to the  Predestined?   Better  check the  line scores first.       :yup: 
                                                                                                                                                                              Tony

Our_Refuge · Sep 13, 2008

sola_scriptura said:
I would be glad to defend to my doctrines (although I’m not a pure Calvinist as I do not necessarily believe in predestination to damnation).

Here’s the main points I believe in with regard to predestination:

Predestination of the “saints” (the faithful in Christ) as a unilateral act of providence and an eternal decree

Perseverance (confidence of the believer)

All aspects of grace are not universally given to mankind

I could get into other stuff – but these set of beliefs are the main ones I accept with regard to predestination.

I need to step out for about an hour or so, but if anyone wants to start a thread – perhaps you could call it “predestination” (or something like that) rather than using Calvin’s name (since I do not entirely agree with all of his doctrines).

As for being tossed to the lions – perhaps we can skip any references to the gladiator games

Thanks

Thanks for your honesty. Not a "five pointer’? Too bad that you only believe in some of Calvinism. Seems like if it were the TRUTH then you would believe in all of it. Oh well.
I would like for you to start a thread to explain your belief in predestination. Please show how it is biblical.( it is not) and please use scripture to show that God predestined some to heaven ( like yourself, the elect, the saints) and others like us Catholics and some protestants to hell. Thanks

Bill_Cherry · Sep 13, 2008

I’M SORRY EVERYBODY.

I’m the jerk.

But,in my own defense I think he was seriously just being obstinate.
Don’t get me wrong…I LOVE a good debate.
But what he said was below the belt.and a deliberate slanderous remark…
If I’m wrong,…
:banghead:

I have sinned… :signofcross:

I mean this.

Arglaze · Sep 13, 2008

Bill_Cherry said:
GO ON RUN AWAY!!!

It seems to me that a person who would think they had a better idea than God would be extremely anal retentive !
Didn’t Martin Luther recieve his "revelation"while he was in the privy??
YOU INTENTIONAL BLASPHEMER.

You are why we are told to wipe the dust off our feet if you won’t hear our words.

sheesh…and people say I"M rude…
now i gotta go repent…

y’know what.

Jesus loves you,but I think your a jerk!

Jerk: a dull stupid fatuous person.

Hmmm… I don’t know what I said to deserve being called that, but

“Blessed are you when men shall insult you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.” - Matthew 5:11

Thank you for that insult, you just entitled me to a blessing from Jesus. In exchange for that, I will do what he says.

“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you and persecute you.” - Matthew 5:44
So, God bless you, and I’ll pray to God for your enlightment. I know you just say that to defend your beliefs, but insults don’t help anyone’s cause.

I’m not running away, I’ve already seen the answer Catholics have for the question asked. And now its just going in circles. Mary’s an important part of their Pope tradition-based doctrine. I go by Gods Word only.
Since I’ve got the answer to the main question from Catholics, I see nothing else that I can share or that I can learn from them.So I’m moving on. I don’t see how that’s being anal retentive when I’m letting go

Arglaze · Sep 13, 2008

Bill_Cherry said:
I’M SORRY EVERYBODY.

I’m the jerk.

But,in my own defense I think he was seriously just being obstinate.
Don’t get me wrong…I LOVE a good debate.
But what he said was below the belt.and a deliberate slanderous remark…
If I’m wrong,…
:banghead:

I have sinned…

I mean this.

No worries. That remark was in answer to the doctrine of Mary being a virgin her entire life. Marianism discussed earlier that someone posted, and that I disagreed with. That was all.

Sailka · Sep 13, 2008

Arglave, Cherry Apologized BIG

dan1el · Sep 13, 2008

Thing said:
Well I guess I’ll have to walk over to your place and spend a couple of weeks learnng the truth from you!

Haha, maybe you can teach me a thing or two (thousand). lol

Bill_Cherry · Sep 13, 2008

Well,everybody.WE ALL CONFESS JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
do we not?

Just because one person wears wranglers and another bugle boy and another,guess,and someone else vidal sasoon;WE ARE ALL WEARING BLUE JEANS!!!

I just happen to be wearing Levis…

the original

however,those jeans look good on ya’ll!!!
(feeble attempt at apologetic humor#543,789:blush: )

Arglaze · Sep 13, 2008

Bill_Cherry said:
Well,everybody.WE ALL CONFESS JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
do we not?

Just because one person wears wranglers and another bugle boy and another,guess,and someone else vidal sasoon;WE ARE ALL WEARING BLUE JEANS!!!

I just happen to be wearing Levis…

the original

however,those jeans look good on ya’ll!!!
(feeble attempt at apologetic humor#543,789:blush: )

Just drop it, its ok.
I never take it personal. Its between you and God. Besides, I know you didn’t mean it.

See you in another forum, and again thank you all, I’ve learned a lot from you all.

Peter_J · Sep 13, 2008

Arglaze said:
Jerk: a dull stupid fatuous person.

Hmmm… I don’t know what I said to deserve being called that, but

I’d say you definitely don’t deserve it – indeed it seems that Bill Cherry agrees with me on that as well.

It’s good having your (name removed by moderator)ut on the forum so I hope you’ll continue – actually I note that the system clocks you at 8.72 posts per day, so I just hope you don’t “burn out”.

sola_scriptura · Sep 13, 2008

Bill_Cherry said:
Well,everybody.WE ALL CONFESS JESUS CHRIST AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.
do we not?

Just because one person wears wranglers and another bugle boy and another,guess,and someone else vidal sasoon;WE ARE ALL WEARING BLUE JEANS!!!

I just happen to be wearing Levis…

the original

however,those jeans look good on ya’ll!!!
(feeble attempt at apologetic humor#543,789:blush: )

Actually the “original” were probably those Nazarene’s depicted in Acts – but hey why nit pick

Bill_Cherry · Sep 13, 2008

sola_scriptura said:
Actually the “original” were probably those Nazarene’s depicted in Acts – but hey why nit pick

:doh2: DOH!
because…I feel so alive(so alive)
for the very first time
and I can’t deny you…
-P.O.D.

You know
we search the scriptures for in them we think we have eternal life…

:knight2: c’mon! Watya got?

dan1el · Sep 13, 2008

Sailka said:

Code:

                                                                                           General Catholic perspectives:                                                   (1) Predestination  of Anyone to Heaven is Contrary to the Bible.  We are  Informed we must try Not to Sin/Break Commandments.  When we do, we must  Repent, ask for forgiveness,   and do  payback.   Those are the verses ignored in the One verse 'born again, saved'.  Are more
                                               (2)  I  don't understand  'perseverance'                                         (3)  All aspects of Grace are universally  Available to All.                 
                                                                                           So Lion games are acceptable to the  Predestined?   Better  check the  line scores first.       :yup: 
                                                                                                                                                                              Tony

Election is true; but Peter says,
“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:” 2 Pet 1:10
It’s basically saying, “yeah, in the truth, you are pre-destined, but be carefeul not to lie against this true by not being the holy elect saint that you are in Christ (for it is no longer I who live but Christ - and moreso as we “put on Christ”, that is, are led and advised by the Spirit through His Word) .”

“For without are … whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”
Rev 22:15

This is what happens to many of the sons of the Kingdom, because they rest too much on their laurels in this current life,

“but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness” Matthew 8:12

In Spiritual Reality, you are pre-destined, so walk in spiritual reality, not in the flesh, as Paul said. We have received the righteousness of God, and we are as holy as God is - this is our nature, since His Spirit (nature) has been made unified with our nature (spirit), so make sure to walk in that spiritual reality. Through prayer and staying in His Words, which are spoken by His Spirit.
“The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak”

“For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.” Galatians 5:17

“For the mind set on the flesh is enmity against God”

So, is predestination true? IMO, yes:

“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

however, as Peter said, make sure you walk in the course which has been laid out before you, doing the good works, as Paul also commented… IMO

Faith is not mature until it becomes persevearance/patience. Daniel 12:12; 1 Pet 4:12; James 1:2-4; Luke 8:5; 21:19; Rev 1:9; 2:2; 3:18 and many more… basically, persevearance/patience (different translations translate this word differently) is faith that has become mature.

God bless.

dan1el · Sep 13, 2008

dan1el said:
Oh, um, thanks for correcting the Lord on that one, Tony, because I always thought hypocrisy was a sin that could even lead to damnation:
"The rest of the Jews joined him (Peter) in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. " Galatians 2:13

“the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 24:50, 51

Phew, thank God for you, Tony, the Lord almost had me with that teaching against hypocrisy of His! ((hug))

I don’t want anyone to forget what we were talking about earlier; this issue which we still have not resolved about Peter being imperfect, rendering the possibility of imperfection in other men of God a reality. Paul himself said that there were times that he did the things which he did not want to do, because sin dwelt in his flesh, but that he would be set free by Jesus Christ. It was sin of the flesh for Peter to walk in such hypocrisy. Infallible?

Peter_J · Sep 13, 2008

dan1el said:
If Peter is the father of your church, then why don’t you take his example, and humble yourself to admit you are able to make a mistake, and receive correction, as Peter did?.. If the Pope wants to be like Peter, this should be his attitude, no? To be correctable?..

I’d say we try to, but human nature sometimes gets in the way.

dan1el · Sep 13, 2008

Peter_J said:
I’d say we try to, but human nature sometimes gets in the way.

Isn’t that the truth.

Bill_Cherry · Sep 13, 2008

Peter_J said:
I’d say we try to, but human nature sometimes gets in the way.

Well, if we’re still talking about the scriptures in the threads title,then this is a wonderful explanation of ONE way to explain them.:yup: :tiphat: :bowdown:

Peter_J · Sep 14, 2008

sola_scriptura said:
Okay (btw I have no tats or earrings either)?? Biggest problems; golly I’ve been down this road so many times b4. Mariology, thousands of “mediators,” icon worship, papal infallibility (and infallibility generally speaking), etc. All ideas I know without a shadow of a doubt are wrong.

I give the EOC much respect though – they haven’t gone the way or Rome & they’re fine by me.

I took the liberty of responding to this in a new thread.

maryj · Sep 14, 2008

Arglaze said:
And I forgot to post it, but Mary lost her virginity a long time ago when the Bible says that Joseph “… knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.” Matthew 1:25.
After she had the baby, then was Joseph able to “knew” her, not before, but till after she had the baby was born. And that “knew” has nothing to do with getting to know Mary as a person, if you know what I mean. Even the word “firstborn” says there are more born. Not her only child. That Jesus brothers and sisters are from Joseph’s previous marriage, is an assumption.
.

Well in that case…1 Coronthians 15:25
says that Christ “must reign untill he has put all his enemies under His feet” Does this mean that after he has put all his enemies under his feet, Christ will cease to reign?

No Christ will reign forever Luke 1:32-33

“Firstborn” is a legal term indicating a special privledge or rank.
Psalm 89:27 call David “firstborn” even though he is Jesse’s eigth son.
Collasians 1:15 calls jesus “the firstborn of all creation” Many people were born before Christ. St. Paul is simply indicating that Jesus has primacy over all creatures.
The term firstborn does not prove that Mary had other children.

See what happens when you don’t have the Church Christ founded as your teacher. Do some research.

How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

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