How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

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SenorSalsa said:
God is the ruler of Heaven and Earth
Cronus is the Roman god ruler of all

God is the creator of the Earth
Gaea is the roman god that created the earth

Jesus is the Son of God the King
Zues is the son of Cronus

there are hundreds more parallels like this. Christianity is just Paganism in hiding:rolleyes:
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It’s funny that you could say such a thing – since God’s revelations to the Jews predate Greco-Roman paganism. Although some can even make your claim regarding Judaism, since the Mesopotamian peoples (and even earlier peoples) held pagan worship systems – in reality such comparisons are fallacious. Paganism and Judeo - Christianity have nothing in common (I’m speaking of pure Christianity).

Did Zeus sacrifice himself for the sins of mankind? Of course not So the parallels you point to aren’t really parallels at all. However, there is a more direct parallel between saintly patronage and the way the gods were venerated. This is not to conclusively say anything – I simply say since it finds harmony with neither scripture or any apostolic source then we should ask ourself if the practice might have pagan or other roots.

Frankly, Karl Barth might scold me for making this comparison – however, I cannot find any source for the Roman idea of saintly intercession or veneration of Mary or the saints … what I can find is scriptural sources abrogating this idea.
 
Arglaze said:
Someone brought up Christ’s statement of the thief at the cross and I disected and explained in detail why they did not go to heaven that day. And was nicknamed “soul sleeper theory,” which no one answered to either.
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You explained but your explanation was refuted.
 
SenorSalsa said:
God is the ruler of Heaven and Earth
Cronus is the Roman god ruler of all

God is the creator of the Earth
Gaea is the roman god that created the earth

Jesus is the Son of God the King
Zues is the son of Cronus

there are hundreds more parallels like this. Christianity is just Paganism in hiding:rolleyes:
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Christianity actually fulfills or takes the place of all previous religions.
Whether its the dying vegetation god such as osiris or the self sacrifice of the hunted stag or the ritual blood letting of various other ancient religions for the appeasement of wrath or failed crops;these were all foreshadowings of what was about to take place in Jesus’ ministry on earth.The convoluted pantheism of the ancients is not the same as the communion of saints.
the rainbows and unicorns mentality of modern neo-pagan musings is a psuedo-intellectual speculation at best.Ya’ll don’t accept it because it would bruise your ego.
It is all the rage to try and disprove Christianity.But even your alleged objectivism is scantily clad subjective speculation.
You can’t refute it.It’s incontravertable.
period.
 
dan1el said:
I don’t want anyone to forget what we were talking about earlier; this issue which we still have not resolved about Peter being imperfect, rendering the possibility of imperfection in other men of God a reality. Paul himself said that there were times that he did the things which he did not want to do, because sin dwelt in his flesh, but that he would be set free by Jesus Christ. It was sin of the flesh for Peter to walk in such hypocrisy. Infallible?
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                                                                                           No human  except our Lord has been 'perfect'.   Infallibility  refers to  Papal dogmatic teaching, not what   favorite food, music, sport was.
Live in Jesus Tony:wink: :yawn:
 
I believe someone posted this as the catholic doctrine in regards to Mary

Mary is the mother of God.
Mary was conceived without sin (Immaculate Conception).
Mary remained a virgin her entire life (Perpetual Virginity).
Mary was assumed into heaven at the end of her earthly life.

Can I go to heaven if i dont believe this?
 
SFC said:
I believe someone posted this as the catholic doctrine in regards to Mary

Mary is the mother of God.
Mary was conceived without sin (Immaculate Conception).
Mary remained a virgin her entire life (Perpetual Virginity).
Mary was assumed into heaven at the end of her earthly life.

Can I go to heaven if i dont believe this?
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                                                                                  Which of those four doctrines don't you believe?  Why?  The  Church teaches only  Our Lord decides who goes to heaven,  and indicates that most do. Very Most.    

                                                                                  Was gone from Church decades, from All Catholic Schools, thinking am good without  the Church.  Best thing in Life  was Returning To  it, Big Time, 15  years ago, because watched one EWTN  TV program of incredible Mother Angelica, then 48 hours non-stop!  Her incredible   Watched on TV  in Over 100 Countries!,  all continents.  Discovered  EWTN  And Church have the "Best Brains, Best Answers, Best Humor anyplace"   Will publish soon  on the most  Ideal/Idealistic Nature of   Billion RCC

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     Live in Jesus, brother.                                    Tony                  :coffeeread: :wave:
 
Thank you for your welcome!
I guess what i dont understand is why Mary is so important for catholics. i’ve read the Bible and i cannot see where this is coming from. I do believe that Mary had to be a very special woman, but sometimes i see some kind of a exaltation around her and i am not sure what role it plays exactly.
 
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SFC said:
Thank you for your welcome!
I guess what i dont understand is why Mary is so important for catholics. i’ve read the Bible and i cannot see where this is coming from. I do believe that Mary had to be a very special woman, but sometimes i see some kind of a exaltation around her and i am not sure what role it plays exactly.
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                                                                                           Thanks for asking! A little History!   From Her time on, Mary was almost worshipped as THE Ideal Woman/Mom, Especially IN her own time on.   All the major Reformers:  Luther, Calvin, etc  had the same Highest respect, prayers to Her to pray for Us.       Included most Protestant  sects, until last 100, 200 years ago, documented.  

                                                                               Also, the first  NT Painter was Apotle Luke, who allegedly painted several pictures  (icons)  of her, the most famous one having been often copied:  the  Icon  of her  stiffly holding the adult looking  baby Jesus looking at the world, with the Alpha, Omega  Greek charecters ar rop corners.    Our History From our Lord Himself and the Postles he chose has been known,  without exagerration, from that time.
One proof of her Assumption into heaven bodily is that she never had a burial site. And she was instantly workd famous. Her rock home on a hilltop overlooking Ephesus, in Turkey is visited by all faiths, cultures. Muslims get as devout In the silent home as anybody. They say “Is a Presence there”. A film about her home is available at/from EWTN.

And Mary is very Biblical also, called the ‘queen of Heaven’. Don’t have time to look the verses up now. Keep the questions, and answers coming!
Live in Jesus Tony 😉
 
going back to what i posted first.
i dont believe that Mary was sinless, that she continued a virgin for the rest of her life and that she was taken to haven. again, she had to be very special for God to come into this world using her. What i can get from the Bible is that everything is about Jesus, even from the Old Testament. I do not undertand what difference it makes for Mary to be sinless or her perpetual virginity or if she died like any other person. can i go to heaven if i just believe in Jesus but not the rest?
 
SFC said:
going back to what i posted first.
i dont believe that Mary was sinless, that she continued a virgin for the rest of her life and that she was taken to haven. again, she had to be very special for God to come into this world using her. What i can get from the Bible is that everything is about Jesus, even from the Old Testament. I do not undertand what difference it makes for Mary to be sinless or her perpetual virginity or if she died like any other person.
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The Marian dogmas came about following disputes or doubt about some quality or attribute of Jesus. For an easy-to-follow example, look at the history behind her title of Theotokos (“God-bearer” literally; paraphrased in English into “Mother of God”).

Thus, it may not be obvious “what difference it makes” but in reality it may make a great deal of difference.

I would suggest reading, reading and more reading about the history of the dogmas until you have a good understanding of the purpose of them.
SFC said:
can i go to heaven if i just believe in Jesus but not the rest?
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Depends on the quality of your disbelief and how much effort you put into understanding it. Are you disbelieving because you’re just a stubborn guy, or are you disbelieving because the subject matter is truly beyond your comprehension?
 
lets say that after reading the Bible i do not find evidence that supports that Mary was more that a special God-fearing woman, but no sinless nature, no perpetual virginity or so
 
SFC said:
lets say that after reading the Bible i do not find evidence that supports that Mary was more that a special God-fearing woman, but no sinless nature, no perpetual virginity or so
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It’s not just “reading the Bible,” though, is it? How can you be sure what you think any given passage means, is what it truly means? Your interpretation of the Bible matters, too.

So, you’re still “trapped” if you will, in the requirement to research and study any given question. Or, as St. Paul advises us, to “work out your salvation in fear in trembling.”
 
my question remains. can i go to heaven if i dont believe that Mary was sinless, forever virgin and that she never died? and when i say believe i dont mean i dont understand or i think it is true but refuse to accept it.
 
SFC said:
my question remains. can i go to heaven if i dont believe that Mary was sinless, forever virgin and that she never died? and when i say believe i dont mean i dont understand or i think it is true but refuse to accept it.
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                                                                                           Brother in Christ, you have been answered by several, several ways.   Only the Lord decides if you go to Heaven, according to the Catholic Church.
And the best RC Church teaching on it is the following, above:
#602 Yesterday, 6:11 pm
HamtramckSteve
Regular Member Join Date: October 27, 2005
Posts: 86

Depends on the quality of your disbelief and how much effort you put into understanding it. Are you disbelieving because you’re just a stubborn guy, or are you disbelieving because the subject matter is truly beyond your comprehension?
 
SFC said:
my question remains. can i go to heaven if i dont believe that Mary was sinless, forever virgin and that she never died? and when i say believe i dont mean i dont understand or i think it is true but refuse to accept it.
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Depends on the quality of your disbelief and how much effort you put into understanding it. Are you disbelieving because you’re just a stubborn guy, or are you disbelieving because the subject matter is truly beyond your comprehension?

Only you can answer that question, but you shouldn’t be working on this alone. Do it with the help of a spiritual adviser, someone who can work with you one-on-one, to discuss these questions.

Your question is a good one, but not one that lends itself to being answered easily on an internet forum, because on a forum there’s no direct human interaction.
 
SFC said:
I believe someone posted this as the catholic doctrine in regards to Mary

Mary is the mother of God.
Mary was conceived without sin (Immaculate Conception).
Mary remained a virgin her entire life (Perpetual Virginity).
Mary was assumed into heaven at the end of her earthly life.

Can I go to heaven if i dont believe this?
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Sure. But if you are Catholic, you owe it to your profession of faith to figure out what these things mean and WHY we are expected to believe them.

Don’t judge yourself “lost.” “Can I go to heaven if I don’t believe this?” is not the question to be asking. By all means, DO ask questions. The question should be: Why are we expected to believe this? Your question sets up a situation in which you presume yourself to be correct. The Church has been around for a long, long time. Whenever she proposes something for our belief, she does it after great and deep consideration.

Step up to the plate and enjoy the experience of having these doctrines unfold in your heart.
 
SFC said:
lets say that after reading the Bible i do not find evidence that supports that Mary was more that a special God-fearing woman, but no sinless nature, no perpetual virginity or so
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Well, for Catholics, the Bible is a product of the faith, not the CAUSE of the faith. Since the NT canon was not closed until the late 4th century, we understand that a lot of teaching (such as that finally promulgated at 1st Nicea) was abroad in the Church, even though it is by no means explicit in Scripture.

The Marian dogmas are part of the living tradition: they do not contradict Scripture (however much people claim that they do), and as another poster has stated, they all relate to specific doctrines concerning the Person of Jesus Christ.
 
SFC said:
lets say that after reading the Bible i do not find evidence that supports that Mary was more that a special God-fearing woman, but no sinless nature, no perpetual virginity or so
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                                                                                           All 4 beliefs about Mary  ARE  from the first century, shortly after Her time.   And she Is decribed in the Bible, Old and New Testaments.  One Old Testament verse Specifically calls her  'the Queen of Heaven', prophetically.
😉 :dts:
And Where did God ever tell us he is giving us a Book to save us, give us all truths?
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                                                                                           :blessyou: :highprayer:
Our Saviour gave us His Church (Matt 16:18-19) And told us that the truth on earth is in His Church/Apostles, now known as Bishops. 1 Timothy 3:15
Live in Jesus. Tony
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I apologize if I’m repeating someone, as I haven’t read all the posts.

1 Timothy 2:1-3 explains 2:5.

Just because Jesus is the one mediator between God and man, doesn’t mean that no-one else can mediate on our behalf. Subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. He invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator. Although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Tim 2:1
First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone,
2
for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity.
3
This is good and pleasing to God our savior

Paul is appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator.

Why?

Because it’s God’s will.
 
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