How do Catholics explain 1 Timothy 2:5 and Hebrews 7:26?

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Gee whiz…
are you guys still at it?
Its ok to ask Mary to pray for you!
Just like when you ask your freinds to pray for you.
When the scripture says that God is the God of the living and not the dead…
doesn’t that mean anything to you?
Your being obstinate on purpose and your arguments against people being alive in their spiritual bodies is futile.
you have no point.
your not listening.
youre arguing just to make yourself feel smart!
What are you getting out of this?

I offer this for all the skeptics

Hail Mary
Full of grace
Blessed art thou amonst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,Jesus
Holy Mary,
MOTHER OF GOD
Pray for us sinners
now
and at the hour of our death

sheesh!
 
Serious CAUTION< ARGLAZE!!! You should NOT condemn Catholic Teaching as that ‘of men’, to another Questioning Here Bible oriented Visitor. This is Catholic site which should not be used to give FALSE Anti-Church and Pro-Bible only Views of yours to Searching Visitor. Please do Not use this ideal Catholic Answers Site to present your Totally False viewpoints. You can/Will be Removed for Violating TOS and Keeping a visitor from seeking the TRUTH, Which was GIVEN to the Catholic Church, through the Apostles, Now the Magesterium, Council of all Bishops: *** 1 Timothy 3:15 ***
Sola Scriptura and personal interpretation are forbidden IN THE BIBLE.

Live in Jesus, Not own ideas, Arglaze! We have presented Masive data and proof that Personal Interpretation of a few verses is Severelly Wrong. Do Not terach loss of Souls Falsehoods in Catholic Site, Please.
Tony
 
I understand what you mean when you say that the Bible can be interpreted incorrectly and any verse isolated can be used to back up the most outrageous claims. Also i have no problem with the traditions of the church, but that tradition has to be backed up by Scripture or at least not be in conflict with it. The base of all tradition should be Scripture because otherwise it turns into a man made religion. I am all for scripture only, and healthy traditions that are born from scripture.
I can respect this 🙂
“Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.” — Paul
 
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                                                                                           My friend,  "Bible Only"  (Sola Scriptura)  does Not work.  Are about 37,000 Christian sects, with all kinds different, or opposing  beliefs, because of How they read verses.                                 That is why the Lord gave us 10 Commandments and The Church, which is  70%  of all Christians. And was only One Church for first 1500 years, now 37,000, last 500  years.
People forget our Church Fathers Wrote the New Testament. We Know the original languages, and the way people meant when they said things. Is Big advantage in reading the Bible. It was not written 50 years ago in English.
You are entitled to believe that, and i am entitled to disagree. In the case of sola scriptura you have a very Catholic point of view. i almost feel like you are saying: you let people read the Bible for themselves and see what happened? now we have 37000 Christian sects and everyone has their own interpretation.
you are incorrectly using that as an argument to prove that sola scriptura is wrong, when it is just an example of how corrupted mankind and how far people really are from Almighty God.
do you really believe that God gave us his Word with the condition that it had to be interpreted by a selected few?
I know many Catholics study the Bible by themselves now but not too far back that was not the case. In fact one can argue that the complete opposite was true. That could never happen again because once you give a person access to the truth of the Word of God you cannot take it away anymore. going back to what you said (and with a lot of truth) about the Christian secs, it is much easier to push false doctrine when the person does not have the Word of God to test if what you are teaching is from God or not.
 
:eek:
Sects are the result of people not studying the Word of God for themselves, but taking what other men teach without putting their words to the Biblical test. “to the law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this Word there is no light in them” Isaiah 8. Everything Jesus and His apostles taught was in the scriptures, they were not new things; Jesus himself said “search the scriptures for they give testimony of me”, he didn’t say go to the synagogue or ask the priest. Why ask a man, when you can ask God and His Spirit will guide you in his Word for your answers.
Jesus said, “let no man deceive you” you can only be deceived if you follow instructions from men without putting them to the test.

This person insists in saying Mary was assumed into heaven, and yet gives no Scripture proof, or indication from anything that could point to that event. It has failed the Biblical test and therefore its a tradition taught by men. If they choose to believe it, that’s fine but don’t expect those who follow God through His Word to believe an inch of that unscriptual assumption even if its 1000 years old. Because its nothing more than an assumption.
🤷
Preciselly exactly the Opposite, Arglaze. The 37,000 sects now are the result of mankind reading the Bible different ways, and dropping 7 Books (Apocrypha) to start new ideas, traditions. And breaking tradition with their previous Church leaders, 1500’s on, forbidden: Jude 1:17; 2 Thess 2:14; 2 Thess 3:6; 2 Timothy 1: 13,14; 2 Timothy 2:2; 2 Timothy 3:14; 1 John 2: 24 Almost all are Sola Scriptura, getting own ideas. God, author of the words of the Bible, nowhere says that he is giving us a/the Book to save us. He Forbade the private interpretation of the reformers: 2 Peter 1: 19, 20. Private interpretation is forbidden by God: 2 Peter 1: 20-21

The reading of the Bible is complex, easily misunderstood: Acts 8: 27-31; Hebrews 5: 8, 11; 2 Peter 3: 15, 16 The Bible says specifically that our Lord taught by Preaching, and sent forth the Apostles To Preach. Nowhere does God tell the Apostles to Write his teachings down. Nowhere.

Teaching is by Preaching: Romans 10: 14, 17; 1 Corr 15: 1,2; 2 Thess 2:14

100% false that everything Jesus and the Apostles taught are in the Bible. John says the opposite: John 20: 30; John 21:25.
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                                                                                           And our Lord established One Church, with the  keys to Heaven to Peter:  Matthew 16:18-19.  

                                                                                           Got to sleep!   We know the Bible Correctly, because our Church Fathers wrote the New   Testament. We know the codes  and meanings from then  (the Apocalypse describes the Mass  in code words. Dr Scott Hahn Turned to convert to Catholic, carefully studying  the morning Mass at   Marquette University, recognizing that. He is one of greatest Bible experts.   We  spin NO  (Zero)  verses  from what was written.      All 7 Sacraments are In the Bible, established by the Lord.
Live in Jesus, brothers, not own opinions. And the Catholic Church Is the Continuing Jesus, as He wants.
:tiphat: :signofcross: :gopray2: Tony
 
:coffeeread:
You are entitled to believe that, and i am entitled to disagree. In the case of sola scriptura you have a very Catholic point of view. i almost feel like you are saying: you let people read the Bible for themselves and see what happened? now we have 37000 Christian sects and everyone has their own interpretation.
you are incorrectly using that as an argument to prove that sola scriptura is wrong, when it is just an example of how corrupted mankind and how far people really are from Almighty God.
do you really believe that God gave us his Word with the condition that it had to be interpreted by a selected few?
I know many Catholics study the Bible by themselves now but not too far back that was not the case. In fact one can argue that the complete opposite was true. That could never happen again because once you give a person access to the truth of the Word of God you cannot take it away anymore. going back to what you said (and with a lot of truth) about the Christian secs, it is much easier to push false doctrine when the person does not have the Word of God to test if what you are teaching is from God or not.
Pls see # 636. 18 Bible verses about Truths, traditions, reading the Bible OK for beginners, brother? Can’t stay up all night re Mariology, etc. ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Have a great tommorrow. Or is it today? 😉
Tony
PS: One guess who Saved the Bible in Dark Ages? Irish Monks, Hand copying THE BOOK, in greatest artistry. Know almost no one could Read those days? We were not forbidden to read the Bible. Only Clergy and Nobility could read.
 
i almost feel like you are saying: you let people read the Bible for themselves and see what happened? now we have 37000 Christian sects and everyone has their own interpretation.
Everyone should read the bible, the Catholic Church teaches that this is NECESSARY.

I’ll update one of your sentences.
‘you let people interpret the Bible for themselves and see what happened?’

And to be more specific, there isn’t anything wrong with personal interpretations, as long as they do not contradict or preclude the interpretations given by the church Christ founded.

So it’s not interpretation, per se, that is the reason for so many Christian sects, it’s the rejection of interpretation of Christ’s Church that is the cause.

michel

michel
 
Everyone should read the bible, the Catholic Church teaches that this is NECESSARY.

I’ll update one of your sentences.
‘you let people interpret the Bible for themselves and see what happened?’

And to be more specific, there isn’t anything wrong with personal interpretations, as long as they do not contradict or preclude the interpretations given by the church Christ founded.

So it’s not interpretation, per se, that is the reason for so many Christian sects, it’s the rejection of interpretation of Christ’s Church that is the cause.

michel

michel
:amen:
And the rejection of the traditions and teachings of the Church Fathers who were endowded by Our Lord with authority: Acts 20:28 Tony
 
:eek:
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                                                                                                                Private  interpretation is forbidden  by God:  2  Peter 1: 20-21
The reading of the Bible is complex, easily misunderstood: Acts 8: 27-31; Hebrews 5: 8, 11; 2 Peter 3: 15, 16 The Bible says specifically that our Lord taught by Preaching, and sent forth the Apostles To Preach. Nowhere does God tell the Apostles to Write his teachings down. Nowhere.

Teaching is by Preaching: Romans 10: 14, 17; 1 Corr 15: 1,2; 2 Thess 2:14

100% false that everything Jesus and the Apostles taught are in the Bible. John says the opposite: John 20: 30; John 21:25.
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                                                                                           And our Lord established One Church, with the  keys to Heaven to Peter:  Matthew 16:18-19.
1 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

how do you get that “God forbids private interpretation” from that verse?
those two verses have nothing to do with the believers access to reading the Word of God. the passage is declaring that the prophecy recorded in the Bible was not a product of a man sitting down and making stuff up, but it was directly inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Believers need guidance, but that does not mean they cannot read the Bible by themselves. we should stop and ask questions when we need to, but the Bible remains in our hands.

Hebrews 5: 8, 11 i do not see what that passage has anything to do with the topic. Please explain it to me.

2 Peter 3: 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

these passages are not saying that people should not read the Bible. it is only saying that people that are unlearn and unstable tend to bent all scripture not only the difficult passages.

you say “Nowhere does God tell the Apostles to Write his teachings down. Nowhere”.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

God telling John (the apostle) to write down in a book and sent it to seven churches. Epistoles dictated word by word by Jesus.

It’s is true that not everything that Jesus did was written in the Bible. i know that for a fact because it is in the Bible.
John 20: 30; John 21:25. I bet that the things that Jesus did that the Bible does not register were pretty much in the same nature of the ones that were registered. You cannot use that fact to justify traditions that have no base in scripture.

I think it would be better if we dont discuss the last statement because i feel that it would result into an argument and not a healthy dialog.
 
Everyone should read the bible, the Catholic Church teaches that this is NECESSARY.

I’ll update one of your sentences.
‘you let people interpret the Bible for themselves and see what happened?’

And to be more specific, there isn’t anything wrong with personal interpretations, as long as they do not contradict or preclude the interpretations given by the church Christ founded.

So it’s not interpretation, per se, that is the reason for so many Christian sects, it’s the rejection of interpretation of Christ’s Church that is the cause.

michel

michel
So what you are saying is that only the Catholic church is capable of interpreting Scripture. does everybody in the Roman Catholic Church have the ability to do this? if not who specifically does it?
 
So what you are saying is that only the Catholic church is capable of interpreting Scripture. does everybody in the Roman Catholic Church have the ability to do this? if not who specifically does it?
We all can do it. For definitive interpretations proposed for *de fide *acceptance of all the faithful, only the Magisterium has the authority. But there are only a dozen or so passages that Catholics must understand according to the direction of the Church. Catholics actually have much more freedom in interpreting Scripture than many non-Catholics have.
 
I am not familiar with the magisterium. Please explain
Short answer? The Magisterium (spelled with a capital “M” is the teaching authority of the Church (remember Mt. 28:19-20? – the Great Commisson to the Eleven to “teach”?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The Magisterium of the Church

85
"The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.

**86 **“Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

There are several brief paragraphs following this one in the Catechism. It’s shorthand but it’s a start.
 
So what you are saying is that only the Catholic church is capable of interpreting Scripture. does everybody in the Roman Catholic Church have the ability to do this? if not who specifically does it?
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                                                                                           Church History in our understanding  of the Bible, from the Earliest Days.  Know that the  Vatican Library  has 50 Miles of shelves?
A great example of what a verse means is 1 Corr 11:23-25: Our Lord Consecrating Bread and Wine into his Real Presence body and blood. What did He mean in saying “Do this in remenrance of Me”? Some interpret those instructions to mean just crackers and grape huice/kool aide in remebrance.
The Catholic Church, Apostles on, knew that Our Lord meant the consecration of similar bread and wine into Real Presence ‘body and blood’ of Our Lord, in the ‘Last Supper Feast’. Immediatelly, since then, the later named Mass, with scripture readings, and especially the Consecration of the Eucharist by Apostolic Power for 7 Sacraments Priest have been the centerpiece liturgy of the Catholic Church. It was always so, until reformer Calvin started the new idea tradition of preaching and singing only 500 years ago.
And as the posting after mine says, we can all interpret verses as we see them, as long as they do not confict with important teachings of the Church.

Brother in Christ SFC, my wording wasn’t precise at 3 AM! Sorry. Was typing half asleep 🙂 Your great search for whats real, whats true is so appreciated! Few care enough, as You do.
Live in Jesus (Vivat Jesus, 4th Degree Knights of Columbus Greeting ‘says it all’, in my book)
Tony
 
Just have to throw a few Big ideas in, SFC and everyone, not many knowing these:
The Catholic Church respects All, and never ever acts superior. One RCIA (Class for those interested in learning about, or becoming Catholic) teacher, a Deacon, said that ‘it Can be a sin for a Catholic to look down on another Faith’ 👍

My favorite Bible is the cheapest also, a few dollars: ** The New American Bible** by the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. It is about 25% historic Introduction to each book, and vast number of annotations and historic comments on many verses.
We don’t have a Word Concordance, because the Bible was not written in English, and modern words are vastly different than 2000 years ago. I got those many Bible quotes from an awesome book, published 100 years ago: A Textual Concordance of the Holy Scriptures by Father Thomas Williams, Tan, $45. "Arranged by Topic (1900!) and giving the actual passages 18,000 actual Bible Verses)

Tradition by Church Fathers and Earliest Christians began before The Written Word, like the Acts of the Apostles, their Epistles, etc. Know how changing the Lord’s day from Saturday to Sunday began? From the First Christians and Church Fathers, to distinguish themselves from Jewish Sabbath and honor the day of Our Lord’s Resurrection.

And why were the New Testament Books written a few decades after the Times? Because Very few could read, or Write in those days. Precise Memory of events and Details was the record, except for the few educated. And the Roman sacking of Jerusalem destroyed most earliest records, except those of the earliest monks in the wastlands already. /LIST] Knowing the Past helps so much in understanding it. 😉
Vivat Jesus
Tony
 
**86 **“Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
So one of the purposes of the Magisterium is keeping the interpretation and the traditions unchanged. am i right?
 
So one of the purposes of the Magisterium is keeping the interpretation and the traditions unchanged. am i right?
No, neither # 65 or 66 of the Catechism say don’t change tradition or interpretation of verses. It says it is the “Living” guardian of both, not blocked from new ideas. However, almost every new idea has popped up in 2000 years, especially in the first 150.
Currently, some minor wording changes in the Mass are being printed, after having been studied, approved by the U.S Conference of Catholic Bishops, on being instructed to do so by the Vatican. The purpose is to conform the modern English wording closer to the historic early Latin wording of early days.
👍 Brother SFC, thanks for getting us to Think things out. Many of us thought, researched things we just took for granted. Is great to find out Why!

Vivat Jesus
Tony
 
What I understand private interpretation to be as Apostle Peter described it is: men creating their own doctrine not inspired by the Holy Spirit, and with no foundation in the Holy Scriptures.

When Jesus came in the flesh the Jews had invented a bunch of traditions that had no foundation whatsoever in the Holy Scriptures making the Law and the Testimony void through their traditions.
Jesus overcame them and Satan himself by responding with “Thus saith the Word of God” or “it is written” and He quoted from Scripture, not to make himself look smart, but because through the Word of God alone can we find safety. Jesus is our example.

So after Jesus ascended and the apostles died, many doctrines with no foundation on the scriptures started to lurk into the Church of God and that union of church and state that seemed like a good idea, just became a curse. Things like:
  1. Images of saints, penance and indulgences
  2. Holy Water (which is ridiculous)
  3. Praying to saints is never told to do in the Scriptures and didn’t start till around 240 a.d. (Waaay after the apostles died, and not a tradition they practiced themselves, or taught others to do)
  4. Infant baptism around 250 a.d. Which makes no sense, since like John says baptism reqs repentance, which a baby can’t counciously do.
  5. Eucharist around 1215 a.d. (way later) being the real flesh and blood of Christ and not just a symbol that Christ gave us to remember Him.
  6. Confesionals around 390 a.d.
  7. Purgatory " 593 a.d.
  8. The Roman Catholic Church real title didn’t exist till way later sometime between 500-606 a.d.
  9. Celibacy came around 300s its unscriptual and which Paul predicted would happen in 1 Timothy 4:1-3 in clear words. Which was introduced by the very church that claims to be the Church of Christ.
The list goes on and of course the RCC has an unscriptual tradition based explanation for each one of these points. If people chose to believe the Pope or those who invented them are under the protection of the Holy Spirit from being lies, the do so. But don’t expect a Christian who reads and seeks God in the Bible to accept something the Bible doesnt say.

RCCs who teach doctrines with no biblical foundation are no different than anyone who makes a sect. The Word of God (the Law and the Testimony) is the test by which all doctrines are tested. If they speak not according to that, there is no light in them - Isaiah 8:20

Again if we want to go by age, then we all need to go back to the real mother church, Judaism, which was also founded by Christ.
The same claims the RCCmakes is what the Jews said to Christians, but God’s Word shows that even something He starts can become corrupt. The Catholic church is not exempt, as long as sin exists, its only human. :\

“Thy Word is a Lamp unto my feet, a Light unto my path”

Amen
 
Yeah, it is wrong to look down on people, but everyone has a responsibility to share the Word of Jesus as he understands it and I encourage catholics and all to do so, even if they r wrong. Truth will always triumph over error, and it can only become more evident when everyone is given a chance to speak.

My only care is that God and His Word be magnified above everything, I really don’t care for people joining my church, as long as they follow the Word of God, the Rule of Faith.
 
S

As far as the thief in the cross, it hasn’t been refuted.
Of course it was, Jesus preached to the dead. He hadn’t ascended to His Father. To say that the phrase I say to you today, you will be in paradise, is silly. What other time would He be speaking about? Jesus was being crucified and an extra word would have been painful. No Jesus meant that the thief would be with Him that day.
 
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