how do i deal with gay cousin/his boyfriend during Thanksgiving dinner?

[BlueEyedLady]

Let’s put it this way, I’m not gay, but I have been a dinner guest of people who disagreed with the nature of my relationship.

When my husband and I were cohabiting prior to marriage we did holidays with each other’s families. We knew full well that his family did not approve of us living together. At all. It didn’t need to be talked about at dinner because we already knew that. But they still opened their homes to me, ate with me, took an interest in me as a person, and treated me graciously and with respect. In exchange, we stayed in a hotel (and still do, married or not 6 adults and one bathroom is awful). I never took anyone’s presence as approval, and the idea that anyone would think that is just silly.

Because of this I view them and their faith in a more positive light. When we have kids they will have a close relationship with all of my husband’s family, immediate and extended. If they had insisted that I not come because our relationship was sinful, then my husband would have spent every holiday with my family, and his immediate family would have felt strong feelings of hurt and anger towards the rest of the family for alienating him over something like that. Our future children would not have a relationship with those people, and probably most importantly, his family would never have gotten my pecan pie recipe

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wow! Touched a nerve!

Try to understand that the OP asked for thoughts. You gave yours. I gave mine, as did others. It’s really up to the OP to accept anything anybody says on here, or none of it.

Except that yours make an awful lot of pretty uncharitable assumptions about perfect strangers. You might do well to examine that attitude a bit more closely and see if it really is in line with Christian charity.

 

[EasterJoy]

At Thanksgiving dinner? Yes, that would probably be best. Any other time, you are certainly free to do what you want, just like the rest of the world is free to consider you a “backwards troglodyte”.

Keep this in context. I have been very clear that Thanksgiving is not the day. My question is this: If I can avoid the question for a day, why can others who know there is a big difference of opinion not do the same? And OK, I don’t say anything on Thanksgiving: fair enough. Do I ever get to say something, or are people who commit sexual sins beyond correction? Can no one tell a relative who is living together before marriage that they are living in sin? Can no one tell a homosexual couple that they are living in sin? Is that correction taboo or not?

More to the point, if someone told you that prostitutes were legal in his state and that since his job precludes commitment to a family, he frequents prostitutes instead, would you hold your tongue and let him believe that this was a morally permissible “lifestyle choice”? Why or why not?

IOW, is someone who believes that premarital sex and extramarital sex, including physical homosexual acts, are just as gravely immoral as prostitution a “backwards troglodyte”? Do you think that it is a moral flaw to hold those attitudes just as publicly as people hold their attitudes that every kind of sex between consenting adults is morally permissible? (Do you think that every kind of sex between consenting adults is morally permissible and should not be corrected at all?)

Well?

 

[BlessedLDS]

Let me give another real world example but with a straight couple:

My mother has been in a vegetative state for four and a half years. My father has been dating another woman for two and a half years. They leave no room for doubt about their relationship. They are boyfriend and girlfriend and my dad sleeps over her house on the weekends (I still have a 16 year old sister and 19 year old brother living at home).

When I first found out, our relationship was strained for about 9 months. I would call him out on it and how the relationship is wrong, but it only made him more stubborn. When he told his family, my devout Catholic grandmother cried and complained to me about how it isn’t right. My aunts were also not happy at first. Anytime my grandmother complained, or my siblings complained, he was even more determined and more firm in his relationship with her. At a family vacation, he rented 2 rooms, one for my siblings and I and one for him and his girlfriend (while my young cousins went on this vacation).

Is what he is doing wrong considering his wife is home in a vegetative state? Yes. However, calling him out on it, even when he and his girlfriend “flaunt” their relationship at events, will not work and will only drive him further away from the Catholic Church.

Same thing goes with your cousin. Don’t make family events dreadful.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Keep this in context. I have been very clear that Thanksgiving is not the day. My question is this: If I can avoid the question for a day, why can others who know there is a big difference of opinion not do the same? And OK, I don’t say anything on Thanksgiving: fair enough. Do I ever get to say something, or are people who commit sexual sins beyond correction? Can no one tell a relative who is living together before marriage that they are living in sin? Can no one tell a homosexual couple that they are living in sin? Is that correction taboo or not?

I guess that’s completely up to the person you are trying to correct. I don’t have a problem with you trying to bring it up to them later, but they certainly aren’t obligated to listen. When DH and I moved in together we told his mom beforehand. She cried, and then needed a few days to think. Then she spoke with us about her views and feelings on the matter. We all ended the conversation agreeing that we have differences but that we all love each other. However, after that conversation we were done. We didn’t allow everyone in his family to share their opinions, and we didn’t let anyone else lecture. (We also wouldn’t have let her do so again but she never brought it up.) So sure, you could absolutely speak to the cousin the next day (privately), and I don’t have any problem with you trying to do so. But he could very well have already decided that he’s not entertaining that sort of thing, and that’s his right.

More to the point, if someone told you that prostitutes were legal in his state and that since his job precludes commitment to a family, he frequents prostitutes instead, would you hold your tongue and let him believe that this was a morally permissible “lifestyle choice”? Why or why not?

Yes. Because at the end of the day another person’s sex life is not my problem or concern. If the person who told me is a stranger, that’s not a conversation that I want to have. If it were a close friend or relative, I would trust that they know the risks, they know the consequences, and they are making their own choice.

IOW, is someone who believes that premarital sex and extramarital sex, including physical homosexual acts, are just as gravely immoral as prostitution a “backwards troglodyte”? Do you think that it is a moral flaw to hold those attitudes just as publicly as people hold their attitudes that every kind of sex between consenting adults is morally permissible? (Do you think that every kind of sex between consenting adults is morally permissible and should not be corrected at all?)

On a personal level? Of course I think it’s a deep moral flaw to hold that kind of attitude. But, I believe that everyone has at least a few deep moral flaws, myself included. I also am trying to approach this issue not from the standpoint of someone who is pro-gay rights, but as someone who believes that adults can and should put their differences aside for the sake of a nice family meal a few times a year. That’s why I have not said anything about homosexuality being ok, or getting over a bias, or anything like that. I try to approach everything on CAF from that perspective, because it would be rude and disrespectful to come here and start advocating for gay rights and acceptance. Besides, even if I don’t understand what it’s like to be uncomfortable with a gay cousin, I think we can all relate to the “What do I do? So and so will be there and they ________ and I don’t know how to handle it”. I mean, that’s a pretty human experience.

Well?

 

[blaskoman]

If this is an affront to you and you cannot accept this, DO NOT ATTEND, plain and simple.

If this is at your mom’s house she made the invitation list, NOT YOU. If you find it an occasion of sin to be there, DO NOT ATTEND, plain and simple.

Next year, have Thanksgiving at your house, you get to be the host and you get to invite who you want and don’t want to be there, plain and simple.

Sorry for being blunt, but YOU have a choice to make – not your mom, your cousin, not your cousin’s “friend”.

Make your choice and prepare to live with the consequences of other people’s reactions to YOU.

I think some posters are missing the point… I repeat, I don’t plan on bringing up the topic of homosexuality at the dinner table. If however, my cousin suddenly announces that he plans to marry, I will by no means remain quiet.

 

[blaskoman]

I would say deal with it. If they’ve been together over a year and have been invited as a couple, then you can’t really expect them to not hold hands or pretend that they aren’t together to protect your sensibilities. Your mom is hosting, not you. This is her concern. You should keep your thoughts to yourself and be pleasant and polite.

OK so I should take advice from an atheist on questions of immorality?!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think some posters are missing the point… I repeat, I don’t plan on bringing up the topic of homosexuality at the dinner table. If however, my cousin suddenly announces that he plans to marry, I will by no means remain quiet.

If that were to happen I would say follow the lead of your mom. She is the hostess, and she’ll know better than you about how everyone at the table feels about that announcement and how the best way to approach it will be.

If you were to chime in, and then your cousin’s parents (presumably your aunt and uncle) come to his defense, and then your parents and siblings come to yours…you get the idea, it gets ugly.

If he were to make that announcement and you really feel like you have to say something, why not wait until after dinner and ask him to step outside for a drink/smoke/walk/let the dog poop/whatever and have a conversation then. It would be less public, more rational, and less embarrassing for everyone involved.

I have to let you know though, if he’s to the point of marriage, there really isn’t anything you can say that will get him to leave his partner.

 

[BlessedLDS]

If he were to make that announcement and you really feel like you have to say something, why not wait until after dinner and ask him to step outside for a drink/smoke/walk/let the dog poop/whatever and have a conversation then. It would be less public, more rational, and less embarrassing for everyone involved.

I have to let you know though, if he’s to the point of marriage, there really isn’t anything you can say that will get him to leave his partner.

This.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I think some posters are missing the point… I repeat, I don’t plan on bringing up the topic of homosexuality at the dinner table. If however, my cousin suddenly announces that he plans to marry, I will by no means remain quiet.

Not for nothing, but Thanksgiving is still 2 weeks away, and you are worrying about some hypothetical situation that may or may not happen- is that really all you have to do with your time??

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you?
Do you live in the “real world”? You know, you are going to run into a lot of people and things in this world that do not fit into your “worldview”. Better get used to it and decide which windmills are worth chasing and which ones are not because you are going to end up very tired and very bitter someday.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Except that yours make an awful lot of pretty uncharitable assumptions about perfect strangers. You might do well to examine that attitude a bit more closely and see if it really is in line with Christian charity.

No. Only the facts as presented and inferences reasonably derived therefrom.

I always do, and will continue to examine my conscience based on the teachings of the Church. That will not necessarily be according to Christianity as you, who don’t believe in it anyway, understand it. And I’ll thank you not to judge me further. This is, after all, a Catholic Christian site. We’re not supposed to do that.

Now, in OP’s latest post, it appears OP intends to go, but also to express vocal disapproval of more overt expressions of homosexual relationship. (Intent to “marry” versus “It’s our one year anniversary.”)

So, it appears the OP agrees with neither of us, but with some of the others present here. Case closed.

 

[blaskoman]

Well I prefer the advice from an atheist rather than a latter day saint… (lol)

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No. Only the facts as presented and inferences reasonably derived therefrom.

I always do, and will continue to examine my conscience based on the teachings of the Church. That will not necessarily be according to Christianity as you, who don’t believe in it anyway, understand it. And I’ll thank you not to judge me further. This is, after all, a Catholic Christian site. We’re not supposed to do that.

Now, in OP’s latest post, it appears OP intends to go, but also to express vocal disapproval of more overt expressions of homosexual relationship. (Intent to “marry” versus “It’s our one year anniversary.”)

So, it appears the OP agrees with neither of us, but with some of the others present here. Case closed.

(Bolding Mine) The irony here is almost poetic. You do realize that your baseless claims that he is bringing his partner as a de facto spouse as a way to “flaunt” his relationship and “force” people to accept him, etc. are all uncharitable and over the top, right?

You give the cousin absolutely no benefit of the doubt, pass very harsh judgement, and then hold yourself above him.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Well I prefer the advice from an atheist rather than a latter day saint… (lol)

Is that a dig at me, mormons, or both? More to the point, where did you get Mormons in this conversation?

 

[EasterJoy]

Well I prefer the advice from an atheist rather than a latter day saint… (lol)

LOL? This is supposed to be humorous?

 

[on_the_hill]

Well I prefer the advice from an atheist rather than a latter day saint… (lol)

:blackeye: You’re poking at the edges, OP. But I’m not a Mod, so far be it from me to pass judgement.

 

[on_the_hill]

Is that a dig at me, mormons, or both? More to the point, where did you get Mormons in this conversation?

A poster of the name of BlessedLDS, perhaps.

 

[EasterJoy]

Let us review the initial post:

He will show up with his boyfriend at my moms house for Thanksgiving. A few weeks ago, my cousin announced during dinner, without any shame, that he and his boyfriend just had 1 yr anniversary being together. Nobody responded to him. I wanted to say something but didn’t want to cause a scene. However, with the boyfriend present at a family gathering I feel that silence is not the way to go. If they bring up the topic of their relationship I feel that I should counter with my beliefs on the matter. (My cousin no longer attends Mass). How would you handle this situation?

The initial response, Post #2, by 1ke, has not been improved upon, OP. Do that!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

A poster of the name of BlessedLDS, perhaps.

Yep, that makes sense. And her religion is listed as LDS. I feel stupid.

I have several Mormon friends and more Catholic friends and relatives than I could count. In my experience the two groups tend to line up very well on issues of family and morals. I would always encourage a Mormon to listen to a Catholic when they want advice on things like this, and vice-versa.

 

[Ridgerunner]

(Bolding Mine) The irony here is almost poetic. You do realize that your baseless claims that he is bringing his partner as a de facto spouse as a way to “flaunt” his relationship and “force” people to accept him, etc. are all uncharitable and over the top, right?

You give the cousin absolutely no benefit of the doubt, pass very harsh judgement, and then hold yourself above him.

Let’s see. The OP is Catholic. We know that. We know the OP does not approve of the relationship. We know that too. We know cousin brought boyfriend and announced it was their “anniversary”. We know OP is discomfited by it. We can reasonably believe at least substantial numbers of the family are Catholic, and know cousin was or is or sort of is, but no longer goes to Mass.

We know those things. But we are not allowed to conclude that cousin is “flaunting” his relationship when he brings boyfriend to a family dinner and announces that it’s their “anniversary”? What more would he have to do to “flaunt” it?

And what alternatives did the relatives have in the situation? They had three. Get up and leave, protest, or say nothing. What do you think, at a family dinner, he expected, including of the OP?

At some point, Blue, we need to accept it that the obvious answer is oftentimes the correct answer.

I don’t hold myself “above” cousin, except that I know for sure I would not do to people what he’s doing to them. Also, I’m not in a gravely sinful sexual relationship. Otherwise, not at all.

Do I have sympathy for cousin? Yes, actually, I do. He is in a perverse and sinful relationship, and wants affirmation of it from others. That’s a sad thing. Obviously, though he might think he got it last thanksgiving, he actually didn’t, at least from the OP; not real affirmation, but only affirmation of silence. That really is sad.

Regardless, the question here is what OP is to do about it all, and I think OP has given us his/her conclusion.