how do i deal with gay cousin/his boyfriend during Thanksgiving dinner?

[BlueEyedLady]

I really hope that the people who are advocating not going because a gay couple will be there and denouncing the idea of inviting a gay couple to any family event understand that they are saying that this issue is such a big deal that it is worth tearing a family apart over.

Let’s say the OP told his mom that he wouldn’t go if they were invited. Now his mom is in a tight position, but I think that most people would stand by the original invitation. But let’s say she tried to cave and called up the cousin asking him not to show up with his partner. Great, now she has seriously hurt her nephew, and chances are that his parents will stand by him. So now the cousin isn’t coming, and neither are his parents. Once the rest of the family hears about the incident they will pick sides and there will be anger, animosity, and feelings of betrayal. The OP’s mom and her sibling would be ripped apart, at the very least, and then there would be big problems based on who took what side.

Or, instead, they could all put their differences aside for a few hours to eat good food and be grateful that although none of them are perfect and that they do have real differences in beliefs and values, they are still family and they still love each other.

And of course, any chance that anyone will be returning to the church will be completely destroyed.

But placing a higher value on a symbolic stand than on family is sad, and I can’t imagine that even catholic clergy would think that that is the best way to handle Thanksgiving.

My mom is estranged from her two brothers over things far bigger than this, and even though it’s been over 10 years, it still causes her a lot of pain and grief. She needed her siblings when my grandma (her mother) died, but she couldn’t call on them. She hasn’t seen any of her nieces or nephews get married, and she hasn’t met her great nieces and nephews. Family rifts and estrangements hurt, and they impact everyone. It’s really, really easy to sit behind a computer and say that a perfect stranger should throw a fit over this “no matter what” in the name of denouncing sin. But in real life, taking action like that can have huge consequences for a lot of innocent people. I would discourage doing anything like that without VERY good reason. (As in, someone insists on bringing a child molester to dinner, or a sibling is trying to rip off their elderly parents for thousands of dollars, or someone is violent and dangerous, etc.)

 

[UbiCaritas]

Pretty much this.

Look, it would be one thing if it was a marriage ceremony for the people in question. This isn’t. It’s a celebration of a holiday. (It would also be one thing if the couple planned on consummating their relationship on the dining room table, but if that’s standard in your family I’d say you have bigger issues than whether or not to go to Thanksgiving dinner. )

Some posters’ focus here seems to be on the idea of publicly expressing their disapproval, as though that’s the most important thing here. Again, why? What, precisely, will this accomplish? Will it bring the cousin back to the practice of the faith? I seriously doubt it. Might send him away running and screaming, but that’s about it. The goal here should be to encourage him to make a choice that may save his soul, not to tell him–as though he wasn’t already aware!–that the Church doesn’t approve of his relationship. Be as Christ was–kind, loving, courageous in faith–and grace might be able to work with that. Imagine how Christ, Who is all-perfect and all-knowing, must see our sins. Pretty scary thought, that. And yet He loved us so much that he came here to save us, including those of us who haven’t yet attained perfection. He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes, and through showing them love and mercy brought them to Him even though they were responsible for the death He suffered. By doing so He wasn’t saying that the practices of tax collectors in that era or prostitutes in any era were acceptable behavior; He was saying “I care about you and respect you as human beings, and want to show you a new way to live if you’ll let Me.” I’d like to think that in a similar situation I could at least be pleasant and welcoming to this couple, ask them to bring a cheese tray, and then pass them the mashed potatoes on request. If they began to bring up a subject I couldn’t support, they’d have either already heard my views on that beforehand or I would discuss it with them (or, more likely, just the cousin) afterwards and not in a public setting. It won’t do any good to discuss it at Thanksgiving dinner, and would probably do a great deal of harm, so why do so in the first place?

 

[EasterJoy]

I really hope that the people who are advocating not going because a gay couple will be there and denouncing the idea of inviting a gay couple to any family event understand that they are saying that this issue is such a big deal that it is worth tearing a family apart over.

Let’s say the OP told his mom that he wouldn’t go if they were invited. Now his mom is in a tight position, but I think that most people would stand by the original invitation. But let’s say she tried to cave and called up the cousin asking him not to show up with his partner. Great, now she has seriously hurt her nephew, and chances are that his parents will stand by him. So now the cousin isn’t coming, and neither are his parents. Once the rest of the family hears about the incident they will pick sides and there will be anger, animosity, and feelings of betrayal. The OP’s mom and her sibling would be ripped apart, at the very least, and then there would be big problems based on who took what side.

Or, instead, they could all put their differences aside for a few hours to eat good food and be grateful that although none of them are perfect and that they do have real differences in beliefs and values, they are still family and they still love each other.

And of course, any chance that anyone will be returning to the church will be completely destroyed.

But placing a higher value on a symbolic stand than on family is sad, and I can’t imagine that even catholic clergy would think that that is the best way to handle Thanksgiving.

My mom is estranged from her two brothers over things far bigger than this, and even though it’s been over 10 years, it still causes her a lot of pain and grief. She needed her siblings when my grandma (her mother) died, but she couldn’t call on them. She hasn’t seen any of her nieces or nephews get married, and she hasn’t met her great nieces and nephews. Family rifts and estrangements hurt, and they impact everyone. It’s really, really easy to sit behind a computer and say that a perfect stranger should throw a fit over this “no matter what” in the name of denouncing sin. But in real life, taking action like that can have huge consequences for a lot of innocent people. I would discourage doing anything like that without VERY good reason. (As in, someone insists on bringing a child molester to dinner, or a sibling is trying to rip off their elderly parents for thousands of dollars, or someone is violent and dangerous, etc.)

The truth is, these things are usually far more dramatic in prospect than in reality. The reality usually goes something like this: “You say you’re gay? Big surprise…we are NOT hashing that out today. Is that really the shirt you decided to wear? For Thanksgiving at Grandmas? Sheesh, it isn’t even clean, you slob! And I’ll make a deal: I won’t make any kissy-face with Sarah, you keep it low-key with Brian, and we’ll keep it smooth this year. Uncle Al has had plenty to drink, and we do not need any scenes, kapeesh? He couldn’t even handle the news last year that Katie was breaking off her engagement with Jimmy. Let’s skip that little drama this year, what do you say? With any luck, we can keep him occupied with yelling at the Raiders and the Cowboys.”

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The truth is, these things are usually far more dramatic in prospect than in reality. The reality usually goes something like this: “You say you’re gay? Big surprise…is that really the shirt you decided to wear? For Thanksgiving at Grandmas? Sheesh, it isn’t even clean, you slob! And I’ll make a deal: I won’t make any kissy-face with Sarah, you keep it low-key with Brian, and we’ll keep it smooth this year. Uncle Al has had plenty to drink, and we do not need any scenes, kapeesh? He couldn’t even handle the news last year that Katie was breaking off her engagement with Jimmy. Let’s skip that little drama this year, what do you say? With any luck, we can keep him occupied with yelling at the Raiders and the Cowboys.”

Pretty much. My family has their share of crazies, disagreements, and even tension. But it’s Thanksgiving for heaven’s sake!

But if the OP were to be insistent that this is a real issue, or the OP’s mom made a statement by not allowing the cousin to bring his partner, this thing that should be a non-issue could easily blow up.

 

[UbiCaritas]

The truth is, these things are usually far more dramatic in prospect than in reality. The reality usually goes something like this: “You say you’re gay? Big surprise…we are NOT hashing that out today. Is that really the shirt you decided to wear? For Thanksgiving at Grandmas? Sheesh, it isn’t even clean, you slob! And I’ll make a deal: I won’t make any kissy-face with Sarah, you keep it low-key with Brian, and we’ll keep it smooth this year. Uncle Al has had plenty to drink, and we do not need any scenes, kapeesh? He couldn’t even handle the news last year that Katie was breaking off her engagement with Jimmy. Let’s skip that little drama this year, what do you say? With any luck, we can keep him occupied with yelling at the Raiders and the Cowboys.”

I didn’t know you attended my family’s Thanksgiving dinner.

 

[EasterJoy]

Pretty much. My family has their share of crazies, disagreements, and even tension. But it’s Thanksgiving for heaven’s sake!

But if the OP were to be insistent that this is a real issue, or the OP’s mom made a statement by not allowing the cousin to bring his partner, this thing that should be a non-issue could easily blow up.

If there is not mutual give-and-take, the prospects are not good. If cousin isn’t allowed to bring the guest of his choice, he might easily find somewhere else to have Thanksgiving, and they might not see him for holidays any more. That is the way it usually plays out. How much family strife comes of that depends on the family. There are usually hurt feelings involved, though. There are also hurt feelings, though, if one family member decides they do not care what anyone thinks of how they act at family dinners or who they bring, if they just do as they please and shout down anyone who does not like it. In that case, everyone is there for the family meal, but it is utterly ruined. This is the kind of chosen family dynamics that makes people dread the holidays.

My grandfather’s parents fought a lot. He always said it took two to fight, and he when he decided he wasn’t going to have a fight, there wasn’t going to be a fight. If someone else decided to have a fight, he’d get up and leave. He’d seen enough fighting to last him a lifetime. So if you are at a meal and someone decides to have a row, you can tell them that either they cut it out or you leave. Once they know you mean it, they usually decide to hold off their spats for another time.

It is a rare person that cannot be welcomed for a meal, if they are willing to stay within certain boundaries. It is agreeing to the boundaries that is the trick, but it can be done. The world is much better when it is.

 

[EasterJoy]

I didn’t know you attended my family’s Thanksgiving dinner.

Lucky you–you got to have the ballgame on!!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I really hope that the people who are advocating not going because a gay couple will be there and denouncing the idea of inviting a gay couple to any family event understand that they are saying that this issue is such a big deal that it is worth tearing a family apart over.

Let’s say the OP told his mom that he wouldn’t go if they were invited. Now his mom is in a tight position, but I think that most people would stand by the original invitation. But let’s say she tried to cave and called up the cousin asking him not to show up with his partner. Great, now she has seriously hurt her nephew, and chances are that his parents will stand by him. So now the cousin isn’t coming, and neither are his parents. Once the rest of the family hears about the incident they will pick sides and there will be anger, animosity, and feelings of betrayal. The OP’s mom and her sibling would be ripped apart, at the very least, and then there would be big problems based on who took what side.

Or, instead, they could all put their differences aside for a few hours to eat good food and be grateful that although none of them are perfect and that they do have real differences in beliefs and values, they are still family and they still love each other.

And of course, any chance that anyone will be returning to the church will be completely destroyed.

But placing a higher value on a symbolic stand than on family is sad, and I can’t imagine that even catholic clergy would think that that is the best way to handle Thanksgiving.

My mom is estranged from her two brothers over things far bigger than this, and even though it’s been over 10 years, it still causes her a lot of pain and grief. She needed her siblings when my grandma (her mother) died, but she couldn’t call on them. She hasn’t seen any of her nieces or nephews get married, and she hasn’t met her great nieces and nephews. Family rifts and estrangements hurt, and they impact everyone. It’s really, really easy to sit behind a computer and say that a perfect stranger should throw a fit over this “no matter what” in the name of denouncing sin. But in real life, taking action like that can have huge consequences for a lot of innocent people. I would discourage doing anything like that without VERY good reason. (As in, someone insists on bringing a child molester to dinner, or a sibling is trying to rip off their elderly parents for thousands of dollars, or someone is violent and dangerous, etc.)

Nobody is insisting that anybody “throw a fit”.

Your family is your family and the OP’s is the OP’s. They aren’t necessarily alike. In any event, your moral perspective is exclusive to yourself, not to the OP. Your “stand” is at least as “symbolic” as any other. It demands that OP “symbolize” acceptance of homosexual relationships by her silent, albeit uncomfortable, presence.

Nor do you have any idea whether the OP will be “tearing the family apart”. Sometimes families discontinue going to extended family dinners simply so their own family can have their own holiday. Nobody is obligated to continue in extended family events which, in any event, never last forever due to death, moves, disability and so on.

Cousin chose to bring boyfriend, and to announce to all that boyfriend is his de facto “spouse” (“It’s our one year anniversary.”) He did that knowing full well (unless he’s totally ignorant of the family) it would be viewed as gravely immoral and discomfiting by some family members. And he did it in a context in which he gave them the choices of tacit acceptance, disruptive dissent or non-presence. Nothing obligates the OP to accept cousin’s injecting his sexual preferences into a family dinner.

Cousin demands acceptance of his immorality by parading it in front of others in a context in which they cannot reasonably object in the context of the dinner. Mom goes along with it. Maybe she hates the situation. Maybe everybody does. We don’t know. But none of that means OP is obliged to go along with it as well.

Seems to me it’s time for OP to have her own family dinner.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Nobody is insisting that anybody “throw a fit”.

Your family is your family and the OP’s is the OP’s. They aren’t necessarily alike. In any event, your moral perspective is exclusive to yourself, not to the OP. Your “stand” is at least as “symbolic” as any other. It demands that OP “symbolize” acceptance of homosexual relationships by her silent, albeit uncomfortable, presence.

Nor do you have any idea whether the OP will be “tearing the family apart”. Sometimes families discontinue going to extended family dinners simply so their own family can have their own holiday. Nobody is obligated to continue in extended family events which, in any event, never last forever due to death, moves, disability and so on.

Cousin chose to bring boyfriend, and to announce to all that boyfriend is his de facto “spouse” (“It’s our one year anniversary.”) He did that knowing full well (unless he’s totally ignorant of the family) it would be viewed as gravely immoral and discomfiting by some family members. And he did it in a context in which he gave them the choices of tacit acceptance, disruptive dissent or non-presence. Nothing obligates the OP to accept cousin’s injecting his sexual preferences into a family dinner.

Cousin demands acceptance of his immorality by parading it in front of others in a context in which they cannot reasonably object in the context of the dinner. Mom goes along with it. Maybe she hates the situation. Maybe everybody does. We don’t know. But none of that means OP is obliged to go along with it as well.

Seems to me it’s time for OP to have her own family dinner.

This post, and all of the wild and uncharitable assumptions therein, say far more about you than the OP, the gay cousin, or anyone on this board.

 

[JimG]

In the past, these sorts of family problems often arose when a son or daughter moved in with a girlfriend or boyfriend without being married. The family member might be invited to dinner but not the “live-in.” The same was sometimes true if a family member divorced his wife. The ex-wife might even be included but the family member excluded. Now, it seems, sons and daughters cohabit with their paramours without fear of family disapproval, and nobody questions the choices of others. I’m not sure if it is a victory for tolerance or for moral laxity. In the future perhaps the family polygamist can bring all his wives, the family adulterer can bring his mistress, and the family pederast can bring his boy, and everyone will keep their peace.

 

[on_the_hill]

they are saying that this issue is such a big deal that it is worth tearing a family apart over.

I don’t disagree with this point. I add:

a) yes, it might be that big a deal, and
b) why put the accountability for tearing the family apart on the shoulders of the one who declines the invitation? The gay cousin is just as culpable. In some respects, he caused the problem in the first place.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I don’t disagree with this point. I add:

a) yes, it might be that big a deal, and
b) why put the accountability for tearing the family apart on the shoulders of the one who declines the invitation? The gay cousin is just as culpable. In some respects, he caused the problem in the first place.

I firmly disagree. The gay cousin is happy and willing to sit down and eat with his catholic relatives. Now, if he uses this as an opportunity to be rude, inflammatory, etc. that’s on him and his fault.

I’ll use my earlier example of my niece at my wedding. Her and her girlfriend came, sat with my family, ate, danced, and had a great time celebrating with us. She knew that my husband’s family were conservative catholics, and she didn’t care. But, if his family had said “If you invite a gay couple we aren’t going”, and there was a rift over that, it is not her fault, and it is not our fault. It would have been theirs for not being able to put aside their issues with her sin for a few hours to do something completely unrelated to her romantic life. Fortunately, everyone got along and had a great time and there were no issues.

But it is not the gay cousin’s fault if someone gets so upset or uncomfortable at the thought of being in the same house for a meal as him and his partner. That is just so above and beyond what he can control.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Or maybe the OP just wants to have Thanksgiving with their family. Are they really supposed to stay home because someone gay is coming?

I agree with the other posters; I think you have to choose your battles.

It also begs the question: what is the real motive for confronting people in these instances? Is it truly out of concern for their soul’s health, or merely your own - without regard to anyone else’s feelings?

How about if someone is not gay, just happy? Or maybe they’re bipolar, happy one minute and down in the dumps the next? (Does anyone remember when “gay” simply meant "very happy and joyful?)

 

[MarkInOregon]

But the people he ate with were there to repent and follow him. This is the part that gets left out. Not nec. by you, but generally speaking. Jesus loved the sinners but didn’t abide by a free-for-all of lifestyles.

I have a gay cousin. My wife has a lesbian cousin. We’re on friendly, familial terms with them, but they both live hundreds of miles away and we haven’t seen either of them in many years. I’m following this thread because I worry about the day the same issues arise for us. My brother-in-law’s sister is a “married” lesbian. She’s on good terms with him and his children but he has made it clear to her that he doesn’t approve of her lifestyle. (he’s Presbyterian, by the way.)

From the passage in Matthew 9 that I cited I am not sure it is clear that those in attendance were there to repent and follow Christ–all the passage tells us is that they came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. We know Matthew had answered the call–the passage seems to be silent with regard to the rest on that point. What we know is that they were sinners and Jesus ate with them because they were in need of a physician. In need of healing–I think that is the point that is missed–that sinners are ill not perfectly fine and healthy.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[BlueEyedLady]

How about if someone is not gay, just happy? Or maybe they’re bipolar, happy one minute and down in the dumps the next? (Does anyone remember when “gay” simply meant "very happy and joyful?)

My first year of college I did Thanksgiving with my roommate’s family. Her mom and sister were both diagnosed with Bipolar and both had stopped their treatment for it because they decided that they hated their doctor.

I would take just about any off the wall, tense, or heated family situation over that mess any day.

 

[EasterJoy]

This post, and all of the wild and uncharitable assumptions therein, say far more about you than the OP, the gay cousin, or anyone on this board.

I have been to group dinners where the rule of the day was definitely “consider homosexual partners to be the exact equivalent of heterosexual partners or be the odd man out, you backward homophobic Troglodyte.” If that is the way one family member treats the others, then it probably is time for separate group dinners.

Some self-styled “progressives” talk a lot about tolerance, but in truth they do not often practice it. What they practice is exactly what they condemn, only the moral boundaries have been moved to suit them. The consequences for holding moral attitudes that differ from theirs are every bit as oppressive as the “system” they decry.

You have to ask yourself this, after all: What do we do with this passage of Holy Scripture with regards to family members who insist we “respect” their rejection of moral law: Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor prostitutes, nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God?" (1 Cor 6:9-10).

I am reminded of a roommate whose close friend got into the occult. The friend was asked if she could “accept” that he (her close friend) had abandoned his Christian upbringing in order to practice this new religion? Was she going to accept him or reject him? “Sure,” said she, always practical and up-front. “I can accept you. I think you’re going to Hell if you keep it up, but if you really insist, I can accept it”.

I mean this honestly: is that what we do? Honestly, do we have to keep our mouths shut about the immorality of sodomy when the whole world feels free to openly condemn failure to reduce, reuse, and recycle?

 

[LegoGE1947]

My first year of college I did Thanksgiving with my roommate’s family. Her mom and sister were both diagnosed with Bipolar and both had stopped their treatment for it because they decided that they hated their doctor.

I would take just about any off the wall, tense, or heated family situation over that mess any day.

That kind of thing, a bipolar person who is not being treated for it, can get quite ugly at times. One of our sons married a bipolar girl. Once, she went off her meds and practically killed him. They have since divorced.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I mean this honestly: is that what we do? Honestly, do we have to keep our mouths shut about the immorality of sodomy when the whole world feels free to openly condemn failure to reduce, reuse, and recycle?

At Thanksgiving dinner? Yes, that would probably be best. Any other time, you are certainly free to do what you want, just like the rest of the world is free to consider you a “backwards troglodyte”.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

That kind of thing, a bipolar person who is not being treated for it, can get quite ugly at times. One of our sons married a bipolar girl. Once, she went off her meds and practically killed him. They have since divorced.

It’s a sad illness. When properly treated and controlled it can still cause problems, but usually nothing that can’t be worked through with love and support. But without treatment…heaven help anyone or anything that gets sucked into that situation.

One of my good friends has it. She graduated college with a degree in communications specifically so that she could work to raise awareness about the disorder. Now she works for a foundation and travels all over the country giving speeches at schools, hospitals, churches, etc about the illness. She’s only 26 and already living her dream. Sometimes I get jealous, but then when I consider what she has to go through because of her illness, my jealousy vanishes.

 

[Ridgerunner]

This post, and all of the wild and uncharitable assumptions therein, say far more about you than the OP, the gay cousin, or anyone on this board.

Wow! Touched a nerve!

Try to understand that the OP asked for thoughts. You gave yours. I gave mine, as did others. It’s really up to the OP to accept anything anybody says on here, or none of it.