how do i deal with gay cousin/his boyfriend during Thanksgiving dinner?

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blaskoman said:
It would not be my style to begin a dinner conversation to discuss immorality. My main concern entails that I doubt I could remain silent if my cousin announced to his happiness regarding his lifestyle or something to that effect. If he decides to open the discussion, I have a right to proclaim the truth. I agree that a big scene at Thanksgiving dinner should be avoided. Moreover the fact that I was my cousins sponsor for his confirmation requires me to never give up on him – to somehow get him back to the faith
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Could you let us know what steps you have in the past taken to “get him back to the faith”? Are you in regular contact? Have you sought to counsel him on many occasions? How did the conversations go?
 
Joseph73 said:
Context is completely irrelevant. That is your fear of confrontation talking. It doesn’t serve me one iota to denounce sin. It serves God and that’s the only reason to do anything.
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My goodness, you must be busy denouncing sin! Do you write to the TV station every time you see an inappropriate scene on TV? Do you stand outside abortion clinics on all your free days and denounce this most grievous of sins? Do you speak up when you spot someone in the shop purchasing a box of condoms? Do you denounce immodestly dressed women you pass in the street? Or do these things only matter at dinner parties?

How goes a life of crusade such as yours?
 
Ridgerunner said:
That’s your position, and I expect it will remain so.

Mine is different. I believe we are to avoid the appearance of approving sinful behavior. When a person brings his/her own same sex “partner”, whom he/she identifies as such, into a social setting that is not mandatory on us, our participation implies acceptance of overt, flagrant and persistent sinfulness, as does our silence in the face of it.

When it comes to children, I believe we are to protect them from scandal by not exposing them to overt sinfulness and our apparent acquiescence in it. At some point in their lives, we or other moral teachers, will tell them about the disordered nature of homosexuality and the profound sinfulness of unrepentent homosexual activity. But accepting a homosexual “couple” in a family setting, particularly if one forces children to witness it and our acceptance of it (however feigned) is the wrong lesson entirely.

Cousin, in this case, knows exactly what he’s doing. He is inserting his very open perverse and sinful lifestyle into a family setting in order to force others to accept it or at least pretend they do by keeping their mouths shut about it; treating “boyfriend” and the relationship as “normal” in every way, and (perhaps) in front of impressionable children.
No doubt cousin believes in his relationship’s “rightness” and “normalcy”. The Church does not view it that way, and we, as Catholics, have a moral obligation to avoid the appearance of our acquiescence in that view, and particularly in front of children. Jesus Himself had a cautionary statement about scandalizing the “little ones”.

Would you accept someone’s invitation of a known Mafia hit man into your family circle, and in front of children when his “occupation” was made obvious? No you wouldn’t. There might be a difference of degree with cousin’s inserting his homosexuality into the family milieu, but not of kind.

As Catholics, we are presented with moral choices. We often fail in making those choices. When we do, we should be forthright in admitting it, in seeking forgiveness and resolving amendment. Tacitly accepting, not a person afflicted by homosexuality, which is a different thing, but overt homosexual activity into our own family is the wrong moral choice.
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Thank you for your polite and thoughtful reply.

I don’t disagree with you in general, but this is not a public setting and in reality there is a bit of manditoriness in family gatherings.

Would I attend a faux wedding? No, that would imply acceptance.
Would I invite them to spend the night together at my house? No, that would imply approval to them (not to the public) and could suggest it to my children.

Having a holiday dinner with family members and their friends – does not. Especially when everyone else at the gathering knows where you stand. It is not a public event giving scandal by appearance–no one at the gathering thinks we approve of the behavior. It has been the topic of discussion. Being polite is not feigned or tacit acceptance.

“…many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, ‘Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?’ He heard this and said, 'Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.” (Mt 5:10-12)

My sister, this cousin are in need of a physician. They are the lost sheep. They are the lost coin. We should not stop trying to find a physician for them nor should we stop looking for them. I am not going to stick a large H or L on them and cast them out like garbage.

You have assigned a lot of motives to the cousin of the OP. Speaking only with regard to my sister - she is not trying to force me to accept anything by coming to a holiday dinner. She’s coming to see my parents and her siblings and her nieces and nephews–it is not about promoting an agenda. It is not some sneak attack. My children --those old enough to have a clue–know we don’t approve of the life style my sister is currently living. They also know that I love my sister, pray for her and hope she will eventually return to the Church she was baptized into. My sister and I over the years have had many “discussions” regarding Church teaching – there is no confusion in the family where anyone stands. We simply believe this doesn’t mean we can’t be polite to each other at a family dinner, nor do we believe the simple act of having a private family dinner offers acceptance of anyones particular lifestyle–it simply means acceptance of them as a person created in the image and likeness of God. And I believe in the long run offers the best chance of possible conversion.

Again I thank you for your thoughtful reply. And I am sure we will simply continue to disagree regarding what gives the appearance of approving of sinful behavior. When everyone knows where everyone stands–being polite should not be mistaken by anyone as approval/acceptance.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
I made an attempt to get him to Mass a few months ago and was met with rude comments such as “don’t force religion onto me”…I have made many unsuccessful attempts to inform him about his lifestyle during the last year. He doesn’t want to hear about it… if cousin wants to talk about his homosexuality in a public setting, I will engage him. If he remains quiet about it this thanksgiving, I won’t bring it up
 
It sounds as though he doesn’t want you to force religion on him, but he doesn’t mind forcing his lifestyle on you. But, as you say, if no one brings up the subject, perhaps peace can prevail.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
But this event *isn’t *an engagement party. It is the normal family Thanksgiving dinner that happens every year. The big announcement that cousin and the “friend” have been together a year has already happened. I think it is very likely that this dinner will be as boring as is usual and then everyone will go watch football and forget that there are any gay people in the house at all. It may be that an uncle getting drink, or a different cousin in an inappropriate outfit will upstage the gay couple entirely. :rolleyes:
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My guess is that it will be a non-issue. The gay couple ought to hope so. If people learn to like you simply as people because you do not give them any reason to see you otherwise, they will mind their own business about a lot. You all just have to give MYOB a fighting chance. I don’t think that is some abdication of the defense of morality to allow this couple that option by the rest of the family being low-key, any more than it is some betrayal of “gay identity” to go to a party without any outward displays of exclusive affection. That is what live and let live is all about–giving each other every chance to ignore the ways in which you drive each other nuts. It takes some small amount of cooperation, but the alternatives are not very pleasant.

More to the point, the alternatives don’t offer many good outcomes. Converts to chastity and purity are not made by having disputes over the turkey and dressing. There is a time for confrontation of one’s brothers (whether biological or spiritual), but Thanksgiving is not it, not if it can be helped at all. Let’s just hope everyone throws everyone else a bone here, and does their best to keep all toes un-stepped upon.
 
Rau said:
My goodness, you must be busy denouncing sin! Do you write to the TV station every time you see an inappropriate scene on TV? Do you stand outside abortion clinics on all your free days and denounce this most grievous of sins? Do you speak up when you spot someone in the shop purchasing a box of condoms? Do you denounce immodestly dressed women you pass in the street? Or do these things only matter at dinner parties?

How goes a life of crusade such as yours?
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I’m not sure what your views are on most issues, but you are hilarious! Do you have a web page I can follow?
 
MarkInOregon said:
Thank you for your polite and thoughtful reply.

I don’t disagree with you in general, but this is not a public setting and in reality there is a bit of manditoriness in family gatherings.

Would I attend a faux wedding? No, that would imply acceptance.
Would I invite them to spend the night together at my house? No, that would imply approval to them (not to the public) and could suggest it to my children.

Having a holiday dinner with family members and their friends – does not. Especially when everyone else at the gathering knows where you stand. It is not a public event giving scandal by appearance–no one at the gathering thinks we approve of the behavior. It has been the topic of discussion. Being polite is not feigned or tacit acceptance.

“…many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, ‘Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?’ He heard this and said, 'Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.” (Mt 5:10-12)

My sister, this cousin are in need of a physician. They are the lost sheep. They are the lost coin. We should not stop trying to find a physician for them nor should we stop looking for them. I am not going to stick a large H or L on them and cast them out like garbage.

You have assigned a lot of motives to the cousin of the OP. Speaking only with regard to my sister - she is not trying to force me to accept anything by coming to a holiday dinner. She’s coming to see my parents and her siblings and her nieces and nephews–it is not about promoting an agenda. It is not some sneak attack. My children --those old enough to have a clue–know we don’t approve of the life style my sister is currently living. They also know that I love my sister, pray for her and hope she will eventually return to the Church she was baptized into. My sister and I over the years have had many “discussions” regarding Church teaching – there is no confusion in the family where anyone stands. We simply believe this doesn’t mean we can’t be polite to each other at a family dinner, nor do we believe the simple act of having a private family dinner offers acceptance of anyones particular lifestyle–it simply means acceptance of them as a person created in the image and likeness of God. And I believe in the long run offers the best chance of possible conversion.

Again I thank you for your thoughtful reply. And I am sure we will simply continue to disagree regarding what gives the appearance of approving of sinful behavior. When everyone knows where everyone stands–being polite should not be mistaken by anyone as approval/acceptance.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
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👍 That’s exactly why my gay friends and relatives attend family dinners as well.
 
LegoGE1947 said:
Could I PLEASE be disapproved of? Then I can go to bed safe in the knowledge that I have offended someone?:rolleyes:
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Not a problem. I hereby assign you to the left of the scale:

Condemned, various degrees of disapproval…, indifference, various degrees of tolerance,…, acceptance, endorsement, advocacy.
 
MarkInOregon said:
“…many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, ‘Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?’ He heard this and said, 'Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.” (Mt 5:10-12)
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But the people he ate with were there to repent and follow him. This is the part that gets left out. Not nec. by you, but generally speaking. Jesus loved the sinners but didn’t abide by a free-for-all of lifestyles.

I have a gay cousin. My wife has a lesbian cousin. We’re on friendly, familial terms with them, but they both live hundreds of miles away and we haven’t seen either of them in many years. I’m following this thread because I worry about the day the same issues arise for us. My brother-in-law’s sister is a “married” lesbian. She’s on good terms with him and his children but he has made it clear to her that he doesn’t approve of her lifestyle. (he’s Presbyterian, by the way.)
 
MarkInOregon said:
Thank you for your polite and thoughtful reply.

I don’t disagree with you in general, but this is not a public setting and in reality there is a bit of manditoriness in family gatherings.

Would I attend a faux wedding? No, that would imply acceptance.
Would I invite them to spend the night together at my house? No, that would imply approval to them (not to the public) and could suggest it to my children.

Having a holiday dinner with family members and their friends – does not. Especially when everyone else at the gathering knows where you stand. It is not a public event giving scandal by appearance–no one at the gathering thinks we approve of the behavior. It has been the topic of discussion. Being polite is not feigned or tacit acceptance.

“…many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, ‘Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?’ He heard this and said, 'Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.” (Mt 5:10-12)

My sister, this cousin are in need of a physician. They are the lost sheep. They are the lost coin. We should not stop trying to find a physician for them nor should we stop looking for them. I am not going to stick a large H or L on them and cast them out like garbage.

You have assigned a lot of motives to the cousin of the OP. Speaking only with regard to my sister - she is not trying to force me to accept anything by coming to a holiday dinner. She’s coming to see my parents and her siblings and her nieces and nephews–it is not about promoting an agenda. It is not some sneak attack. My children --those old enough to have a clue–know we don’t approve of the life style my sister is currently living. They also know that I love my sister, pray for her and hope she will eventually return to the Church she was baptized into. My sister and I over the years have had many “discussions” regarding Church teaching – there is no confusion in the family where anyone stands. We simply believe this doesn’t mean we can’t be polite to each other at a family dinner, nor do we believe the simple act of having a private family dinner offers acceptance of anyones particular lifestyle–it simply means acceptance of them as a person created in the image and likeness of God. And I believe in the long run offers the best chance of possible conversion.

Again I thank you for your thoughtful reply. And I am sure we will simply continue to disagree regarding what gives the appearance of approving of sinful behavior. When everyone knows where everyone stands–being polite should not be mistaken by anyone as approval/acceptance.

The peace of Christ,
Mark
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How many times have we seen posts here on CAF in which people have lamented that so many Catholics don’t stand up for the teachings of the Church? “You voted for this abortion-promoter; that homosexual marriage proponent. You do not oppose the HHS Mandate. Why? How could you do those things?”

Nothing is mandated in this case, and certainly not the boyfriend’s presence. The cousin’s statement is: “This is my de facto spouse. I will bring him just as you bring your spouse.” Nothing mandated that but the cousin’s simply providing the family with a fait accompli the family did not (as near as one can tell) invite. The boyfriend is there ONLY because the cousin is presenting him as his “spouse”.

By attending, the OP is endorsing the cousin’s relationship with boyfriend as his “spouse”. OP (in the interests of courtesy) is, by seeming consensus here, obliged to say nothing about it at the event, but to pretend to accept something the OP does not accept.

None of us is likely to be called to literal martyrdom. Most will not likely be beheaded by some sultan, bashaw or terrorist for the faith. But there are other, smaller, occasions for all of us to either stand up for our faith and beliefs or to compromise them. Some “denials of faith” may be very difficult to deal with; as for example if our boss is given to unfairness toward fellow workers, or if a government tells us we must purchase abortifacients or be in trouble with the IRS.

When, however, we accept an immorality that is forced upon us ONLY because we feel it is forced upon us by “good manners” or “convention”, we have failed in witnessing for our faith for very insufficient reason. If we are weak in that, we are likely to be weak in everything, and we are telling any children present that even “courtesy” in accepting what is now a societal convention of some 10 or so years duration, is sufficient to make us (or them) back down from taking a moral position. We are yielding the field without so much as a protest.
 
Ridgerunner said:
By attending, the OP is endorsing the cousin’s relationship with boyfriend as his “spouse”.
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Or maybe the OP just wants to have Thanksgiving with their family. Are they really supposed to stay home because someone gay is coming?

I agree with the other posters; I think you have to choose your battles.

It also begs the question: what is the real motive for confronting people in these instances? Is it truly out of concern for their soul’s health, or merely your own - without regard to anyone else’s feelings?
 
Graciously
1ke said:
Politely.
You are both invited guests. Be courteous and polite.
That was a sensible path.

Invited guests should be polite, not create an uncomfortable situation at the famil gathering. It is unfortunate that your cousin did not behave politely, but that does not mean you must follow suit.

I would suggest you not do so. Be polite and kind to both of them.

The time and place to discuss this, and perhaps suggest your cousin refrain from bringing up the topic in the future, is NOT at the dinner table during family Thanksgiving. It is not appropriate to embarrass your cousin, his “boyfriend”/guest, or your parents. Presumably they have both been invited, either explicitly or by virtue of being “family”. So, no, do not try to go into religious apologetics during Thanksgiving dinner.

Pass the potatoes.
How about those Cowboys?
Is it going to rain this weekend?

At most, I would suggest we discuss the matter at another time.
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👍👍👍
 
blaskoman said:
He will show up with his boyfriend at my moms house for Thanksgiving. A few weeks ago, my cousin announced during dinner, without any shame, that he and his boyfriend just had 1 yr anniversary being together. Nobody responded to him. I wanted to say something but didn’t want to cause a scene. However, with the boyfriend present at a family gathering I feel that silence is not the way to go. If they bring up the topic of their relationship I feel that I should counter with my beliefs on the matter. (My cousin no longer attends Mass). How would you handle this situation?
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If this is an affront to you and you cannot accept this, DO NOT ATTEND, plain and simple.

If this is at your mom’s house she made the invitation list, NOT YOU. If you find it an occasion of sin to be there, DO NOT ATTEND, plain and simple.

Next year, have Thanksgiving at your house, you get to be the host and you get to invite who you want and don’t want to be there, plain and simple.

Sorry for being blunt, but YOU have a choice to make – not your mom, your cousin, not your cousin’s “friend”.

Make your choice and prepare to live with the consequences of other people’s reactions to YOU.
 
SpidersfromMars said:
Or maybe the OP just wants to have Thanksgiving with their family. Are they really supposed to stay home because someone gay is coming?

I agree with the other posters; I think you have to choose your battles.

It also begs the question: what is the real motive for confronting people in these instances? Is it truly out of concern for their soul’s health, or merely your own - without regard to anyone else’s feelings?
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If the OP wasn’t concerned about the situation, this thread would not be here.

I did not recommend confrontation; merely non-endorsement by one’s presence.

I also think one needs to choose one’s battles. If we do not act on moral principle in those situations in which the adverse consequences are low, whatever would make us think we, or those influenced by us, (including children) would act on them when they’re high?
 
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