how do i deal with gay cousin/his boyfriend during Thanksgiving dinner?

[LegoGE1947]

Good evening Joseph: I see. Help me understand, because I can be a bit annoying with my inquisitiveness sometimes, but I think that’s usually because I’m trying to understand people’s reasoning better. The idea of calling these two people out at Thanksgiving dinner is one of the more intriguing ideas I have heard in a long time, so forgive my curiosity. That said, does this mean that you have run out of sins of your own to disapprove of, or do we need to take some time off from minding the log in our own eye to tell others about the speck in theirs?

If so, do you think that maybe you and I should list some of our sins here on the thread so that we can express our disapproval or disappointment with one another, or are our sins different? If they are, how are they different? Or do you think that Old Satan is distracting people from their own peril with the spectacle of someone else’s affairs?

Very curious about all of this. Thanks for your patience, and I very much look forward to discussing this politely and in detail.

Some of my sins are: I’m a COWARD when it comes to defending the faith.
I worry way too much. Trust God way too little.
I am often an annoyance to my wife.
I am often anti-social.
Pride, envious thoughts about what others have, can do, etc.
Self-pity.
A very warped sense of humor at times.
Often think the world would be better off without me.
Spend way too much time on this computer.
Often have spells of self-righteousness.

I could go on but I think that is enough for starters. We could start with these.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Some of my sins are: I’m a COWARD when it comes to defending the faith.
I worry way too much. Trust God way too little.
I am often an annoyance to my wife.
I am often anti-social.
Pride, envious thoughts about what others have, can do, etc.
Self-pity.
A very warped sense of humor at times.
Often think the world would be better off without me.
Spend way too much time on this computer.
Often have spells of self-righteousness.

I could go on but I think that is enough for starters. We could start with these.

Hi Lego: I confess to all the same sins and will add that I am often vain although I have no cause to be. But I approve of you, accept you, and very much appreciate your openness. Sorry I was unable to disapprove of you, but you are just too likable

 

[LegoGE1947]

Hi Lego: I confess to all the same sins and will add that I am often vain although I have no cause to be. But I approve of you, accept you, and very much appreciate your openness. Sorry I was unable to disapprove of you, but you are just too likable

We could meditate on your question “What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it’s all about?” There is also the Peggy Lee recording “Is That All There Is?” She goes on to say if that’s all there is let’s just keep dancing, break out the booze and have a ball.

That may be another failing of mine–Being just too likable:shrug:

 

[Rau]

Wow. I tend to be more…moderate, or even liberal around here than most folks are…but this is one time when I say to the OP: I’m glad I’m not in your shoes. I’d have a really hard time handling that. Really hard.

Would I attend? Tough to say. My internal polling right now is showing 87-13 prefer not to go.

I can be socially anxious in some situations, and in this particular on I probably wouldn’t even raise my eyes from my plate.

I know we’re supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin, but in my own mother’s house?

I don’t think I’d go. Sorry, mom. Call me a coward, but I wouldn’t be able to handle the discomfort. Then I’d irrationally feel betrayed by everyone who did go, and end up hating myself for feeling this way.

[my feelings aren’t so much based on the Catholic teaching but more on my own cultural feelings of homophobia]

Not going would certainly be a better path than attending, and creating a scene should the entirely foreseeable happen.

 

[Rau]

Friend is absolutely rude, and if you had referred to my husband as my ‘friend’ or ‘housemate’ when we were engaged and living together or dating and living together, I would have firmly but politely corrected you, as many times as necessary. If it became obvious that you were going to intentionally persist, we would have a very open conflict. It is rude to attempt to redefine the nature of someone else’s relationship in terms that make you more comfortable. That’s belittling. (And that’s not even considering how belittling it is to call someone’s serious partner a friend.)

It isn’t about wanting everyone to know the relationship is sexual. Even “chaste” couples use boyfriend/girlfriend/fiance/fiancee/husband/wife to demonstrate that that relationship is special, exclusive, and placed above all others. If it were just about sex, they wouldn’t bother. And husbands and wives would revert back to friends after one became permanently unable to have sex.

But those words mean something special and unique. I

One can understand why the term “partner” has become “de rigueur”. All the existing words, other than “friend”, have a built-in gender presumption. The term “friend” is (from the perspective of a person in a homosexual relationship) a somewhat belittling way in which to refer to their partner, and similarly for the heterosexual couple. [Interestingly, whenever anyone uses the term partner, I tend to “think” (automatically) that they do not mean husband/wife (ie. unmarried, or homosexual), but that is often wrong.]

 

[Rau]

Here’s what you do. Go to the gathering, and if they start holding hands or kissing or something, just look over at them and say, “Do you mind?” with a look on your face. Or if that doesn’t work, say, “I have no desire to see that. What you do is your business, but there are children here. Please.”

That’s exactly what I would do.

EDIT: Actually, if they started kissing, I would stand up, collect my children, and walk out. True story.

Given the **likelihood **of exactly such an event, why not instead seek to avoid it?

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

We could meditate on your question “What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it’s all about?” There is also the Peggy Lee recording “Is That All There Is?” She goes on to say if that’s all there is let’s just keep dancing, break out the booze and have a ball.

That may be another failing of mine–Being just too likable:shrug:

Hi Lego: Actually, I have meditated on that question a lot. I have also heard he Peggy Lee song. She sang it once on the Dean Martin show when I was little. Oh, we can add that to my list of sins: I watched the Dean Martin show a few times when I was a kid. I thought he was slick! Bad Gary.

 

[Rau]

I have seen couples kissing at family gatherings (I’m talking a guy and girl) And, either way, you are right, it is not polite to do that. They should “get a room” if they want to do that sort of stuff!

You are making a joke, right? Or are you envisaging a subset of kisses that you’d find in appropriate?

 

[LegoGE1947]

Hi Lego: Actually, I have meditated on that question a lot. I have heard he Peggy Lee song. She sang it on the Dean Martin show when I was little. Oh, we can add that to my list of sins: I watched the Dean Martin show a few times when I was a kid. Bad Gary.

I watched it too, also Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In, the Twilight Zone, Way Out, Topper, some of the daytime soap operas. Bad Me:blush:

 

[Rau]

You can make a more powerful statement against it by being there than by not being there.

Perhaps so - might make good Television. But why do you see it as your responsibility to make said “statement”, in front of others during Thanksgiving Dinner?

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

I watched it too, also Rowan and Martin’s Laugh-In, the Twilight Zone, Way Out, Topper, some of the daytime soap operas. Bad Me:blush:

We are in dire need of some strong disapproval.

 

[EasterJoy]

Given the **likelihood **of exactly such an event, why not instead seek to avoid it?

I must live in a really Germanic section of the country, but most of the people getting kisses at family functions where I come from are grandmas and aunties…or the kisses are “Hollywood” kisses that anyone may pass out to anybody.

 

[Rau]

You really think that attending a family dinner where gay couples are present endorses their relationship?

I think it shows a degree of tolerance (though I hate that word…). There is a continuum here isn’t there – indifference, various degrees of tolerance,…, acceptance, endorsement, right up to advocacy.

I’d agree that attending a family dinner can’t be equated to endorsement of the behaviour of one of the guests; there are other reasons motivating attendance.

What about attending an engagement party for a homosexual couple - I’d say that moves up the scale a bit - at least to “acceptance”.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I think it shows a degree of tolerance (though I hate that word…). There is a continuum here isn’t there – indifference, various degrees of tolerance,…, acceptance, endorsement, right up to advocacy.

I’d agree that attending a family dinner can’t be equated to endorsement of the behaviour of one of the guests; there are other reasons motivating attendance.

What about attending an engagement party for a homosexual couple - I’d say that moves up the scale a bit - at least to “acceptance”.

Could I PLEASE be disapproved of? Then I can go to bed safe in the knowledge that I have offended someone?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

But this event *isn’t *an engagement party. It is the normal family Thanksgiving dinner that happens every year. The big announcement that cousin and the “friend” have been together a year has already happened. I think it is very likely that this dinner will be as boring as is usual and then everyone will go watch football and forget that there are any gay people in the house at all. It may be that an uncle getting drink, or a different cousin in an inappropriate outfit will upstage the gay couple entirely.

I think it shows a degree of tolerance (though I hate that word…). There is a continuum here isn’t there – indifference, various degrees of tolerance,…, acceptance, endorsement, right up to advocacy.

I’d agree that attending a family dinner can’t be equated to endorsement of the behaviour of one of the guests; there are other reasons motivating attendance.

What about attending an engagement party for a homosexual couple - I’d say that moves up the scale a bit - at least to “acceptance”.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Could I PLEASE be disapproved of? Then I can go to bed safe in the knowledge that I have offended someone?

I disapprove in EVERYTHING you do. Shame on you.

Do you feel better now?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Could I PLEASE be disapproved of? Then I can go to bed safe in the knowledge that I have offended someone?

You are offensive sir! Now go to bed!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Do you have a relationship with him beyond your sponsorship? Do you regularly talk, text, email? If so, you may have a “right” that someone without that friendship doesn’t have. Would you give him the time of day, otherwise? Something to think about.

This is a good question. The time to start this discussion was over a year ago when the cousin began to talk about being gay. In order to influence him for the good, he needs to know you care about him (about his soul) and he needs to trust you. Some families are very close naturally, many only get together for those few times a year family gatherings. As his sponsor, it may behoove the OP to build up her relationship with her cousin so that she can be a guiding light.

 

[blaskoman]

I’m a guy.

My username is blaskoman not blaskochick

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Sorry.

Although if you were a woman, I’d say blaskogal would be a better name.