how do i deal with gay cousin/his boyfriend during Thanksgiving dinner?

[KendraDZ1902]

I’ve been the guest at the holiday gatherings of a lot of different families, many with whom I was not related and some I had never met before and not one person there was nuzzling anyone unless they were a tiny child. There are a lot of posts on threads about gay people that seem to suggest that anyone who is not straight is incapable of acting properly in public and instead will be constantly groping their partner. Why is it so difficult to see them as regular people instead of a bizarre stereotype.

I also can’t imagine how uncomfortable any of the other guests would feel if someone took that occasion to take a stand on something like this. If it’s your house, don’t invite them, but if it isn’t your home don’t disrespect the hosts and insult their guests. It won’t turn out well.

Yep. If someone stood up at the table and started going on and on about how SSM was an abomination and that gays need to stop dating one another, I would tell them that they need to leave. Totally not the time or place to start evangelizing the gays, or any other type of sins.

If you would feel uncomfortable, don’t go. If you do go, be polite and use your manners.

 

[Ridgerunner]

OP, if you are so upset by your cousin’s relationship, the kindnest thing for all concerned would be for you not to attend the dinner.

Agreed. Been saying this all along. If OP feels she would be condoning overt expressions of homosexuality, and is made uncomfortable by being asked to do it, (which she should)of course she shouldn’t go.

Still there is the additional matter of children which, if OP has any, should not be there at all, regardless of OP’s comfort level.

 

[Ridgerunner]

How lacking is it in Christian charity to assume that the cousin is bringing his partner to a holiday dinner in order to “flaunt” their relationship.

It’s lacking in Christian charity to observe the obvious? He’s not introducing the boyfriend as “one of my friends from work who doesn’t have a family” or something, is he?

The OP knows it’s the paramour. How does she know?

 

[estesbob]

Oh my! Is it time for our regularly scheduled homophobic thread already?

How lacking is it in Christian charity to assume that the cousin is bringing his partner to a holiday dinner in order to “flaunt” their relationship. When I invited my then DBF (and now DH) to my family’s Easter breakfast it was to introduce the people I love to each other and have them spend time together, not to “flaunt” him. Is it not possible that the cousin’s motivations are the same?

Is it tacitly approving of someone taking God’s name in vain if, at the Thanksgiving meal, someone cries out “OMG!” when an impending birth is announced and is not immediately chastised for it? Is it giving approval if someone announces that he’s moving his manufacturing facility abroad so he doesn’t have to conform to EPA laws that protect the safety of his workers and no one storms out of the room in high dudgeon?

Or are we only called to voice our disapproval of sexual sins?

How egotistical is it to think that our approval means anything to anyone else and that withholding it somehow carries any value?

Even the Pope has pointed out our obsession with matters of homosexuality. I have to agree with a PP that it must have something to do with our smug confidence that, as heterosexuals. that’s one sin we’ll never be tempted to commit. The customary response to a comment about a vacation would be questions and comments as to the things the vacationer saw and did, not an inability to think of anything except their rooming arrangements.

OP, if you are so upset by your cousin’s relationship, the kindnest thing for all concerned would be for you not to attend the dinner.

I think using the word homophobic is a good way to derail the thread.The OP is going into a new situation for him and is asking for advice on how handle it. My guess is his c ousin is more nervous about it than he is…But please let’s not let this thread degrade into name calling, especially using loaded terms like"homophobe"

 

[on_the_hill]

I think using the word homophobic is a good way to derail the thread.The OP is going into a new situation for him and is asking for advice on how handle it. My guess is his c ousin is more nervous about it than he is…But please let’s not let this thread degrade into name calling, especially using loaded terms like"homophobe"

I am struggling with my homophobia, and I resent that we’re being discouraged from using the word.

 

[Book_Worm]

I am struggling with my homophobia, and I resent that we’re being discouraged from using the word.

As you can see, I was not the person who introduced the term to the thread.

Homophobia is defined as an irrational fear of and aversion to homosexuals or homosexuality. An irrational aversion to any group of people, based on parts of their nature over which they have no control, is pretty much the anthesis of what Jesus taught.

 

[SuperLuigi]

He will show up with his boyfriend at my moms house for Thanksgiving. A few weeks ago, my cousin announced during dinner, without any shame, that he and his boyfriend just had 1 yr anniversary being together. Nobody responded to him. I wanted to say something but didn’t want to cause a scene. However, with the boyfriend present at a family gathering I feel that silence is not the way to go. If they bring up the topic of their relationship I feel that I should counter with my beliefs on the matter. (My cousin no longer attends Mass). How would you handle this situation?

I tend to suggest discussing any concerns about “do I have an obligation to do X” with a priest or confessor.

I really don’t see any moral obligation on your part unless you know them well and feel like you change their behaviour, but I cannot possibly see how that would ever happen at the Thanksgiving dinner table.

 

[MarkInOregon]

As the Apostle St. Paul writes, “Do not even eat with such a one.”

Was Paul not referring to our “brothers”? To those professing to be members of the community? I am not sure the cousin qualifies – the only information we have is that the cousin no longer attends mass – doesn’t sound like he is part of the community anymore–appeas that he has cut himself off from it. Even Christ ate with sinners. The goal should be to hopefully, at some point, bring this cousin back to Christ and his Church–not drive him further from it. Our actions need to draw him back toward the Church not push him further away. There may come a time and a place to plant seeds–Thanksgiving probably isn’t the place. We should defend the Churches position if it is attacked but I don’t think we should be the ones doing the confronting in this situation.

I agree with 1Ke.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[EasterJoy]

I tend to suggest discussing any concerns about “do I have an obligation to do X” with a priest or confessor.

I really don’t see any moral obligation on your part unless you know them well and feel like you change their behaviour, but I cannot possibly see how that would ever happen at the Thanksgiving dinner table.

I think saying nothing is a reasonable way to handle the situation described. If those present aren’t extending congratulations about the announcement of the anniversary of an illicit relationship, no one is approving. They are declining to either approve or to get into a debate about it. That is just what one would do if a family member were bragging about cheating on their taxes–at least, let us hope that no one would feel a need to put the tax cheat on the defensive and have a big debate about his moral choices at the dinner table. Someone might force you to point out that they’ve had quite enough to drink, but it isn’t the time to have an intervention about someone’s alcoholism. It is a time for *everyone *to lay down arms and stay off of subjects of dispute, agreeing not just to disagree, but agreeing to stay off of the field of battle entirely, because of the setting and the day. Otherwise, just forget it.

 

[MarkInOregon]

If they were both invited, they were both invited, and it’s not rude on the cousin’s part, though it is on the mother’s part if the mother has good reason to belive it will be offensive to other guests. If the cousin just showed up with his boyfriend as one might with a real spouse, that’s rude on the cousin’s part; an “in your face” gesture to Catholics who, presumably, will be there.

It is of no consequence whether the cousin cares or not. He has chosen what he will accept, and what he wants to oblige others to accept. It’s up to the OP to decide what she will accept, not what the cousin will accept.

Why are we so easily offended? Why should we be “offended”? Perhaps I don’t understand what it means to be offended as others use the word. But it seems to me rather than be offended we should be concerned with his salvation–not with our own sensibilities. We should be concerned with our own example, with our own lives and witness–with making others want the joy and peace that we have no matter what tribulations come our way. That is what will provide us with the opportunity to witness to Christ and the truth of his Church. Being polite and civil to someone at a family holiday gathering–doesn’t imply acceptance–as say attending their “wedding” or inviting them to spend the night at your house might.

I have experience with this–my sister knows how I feel. We have discussed it it the past. I can’t see how shunning her would help–with her it would actually just drive her further away–I don’t want that on my soul. I’m not worried that my kid’s see her and her friend at family gatherings–my younger children have no idea and my older children know what I believe and think and what the Church teaches and why–I don’t feel this in anyway puts them in danger. I think shunning my sister, acting like this isn’t a part of the world, like she shouldn’t be treated with respect would be more damaging. They know we don’t accept the lifestyle and why and that is the important thing. They will come across gay couples in their daily life–at college, at work, everywhere now–that is the society we now live in whether we like it or not. Our children need to be equipped to deal with this reality–they will have to interact with them to get along in the world–they need to be prepared. Teaching them to shun and avoid–is not going to help them and may actually end up driving them away from the Church–the very thing we seek to avoid. We interact with sinners everyday. I doubt that those suggesting not going to the dinner don’t inquire whether this or that unmarried couple are fornicating–at least I don’t see a lot threads worrying about how to approach the situation.

This isn’t about acceptance of this or that–it’s about how to behave in a Christian manner that might attract others and make them rethink their lifestyle and beliefs. That is what needs to be discerned and the best way to do that will be different for different people.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Joseph73]

Oh my! Is it time for our regularly scheduled homophobic thread already?

Your PC shaming will not work here.

Is it tacitly approving of someone taking God’s name in vain if, at the Thanksgiving meal, someone cries out “OMG!” when an impending birth is announced and is not immediately chastised for it?

A flicker of disapproval on your face is fine.

Or are we only called to voice our disapproval of sexual sins?

No, all sins.

How egotistical is it to think that our approval means anything to anyone else and that withholding it somehow carries any value?

It is always valuable to discourage sin.

Even the Pope has pointed out our obsession with matters of homosexuality. I have to agree with a PP that it must have something to do with our smug confidence that, as heterosexuals. that’s one sin we’ll never be tempted to commit.

Don’t think that’s what he said, and secondly, there is nothing smug about discouraging sin. You’re not smugly above the PERSON, you are attacking the SIN.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Don’t think that’s what he said, and secondly, there is nothing smug about discouraging sin. You’re not smugly above the PERSON, you are attacking the SIN.

Have you ever seen this happen? Has anyone attacked the sin that you were committing? Because when I have seen this done, it definitely seems like the person who is attacking the sin is also attacking the person who’s sinning. Usually yelling and frustration happen and it does no good. I don’t think there is a tactful way to attack anything at a dinner party that you are just a guest at.

Now, at this said dinner party someone asks your opinion, you can politely say that you don’t agree, but again, I don’t think there is a tactful way to attack anything at a dinner party that you are a guest at.

 

[Joseph73]

Have you ever seen this happen? Has anyone attacked the sin that you were committing? Because when I have seen this done, it definitely seems like the person who is attacking the sin is also attacking the person who’s sinning. Usually yelling and frustration happen and it does no good. I don’t think there is a tactful way to attack anything at a dinner party that you are just a guest at.

Now, at this said dinner party someone asks your opinion, you can politely say that you don’t agree, but again, I don’t think there is a tactful way to attack anything at a dinner party that you are a guest at.

It is tactful when you do it right, but it is true that many people get emotional.

I’m just talking about an emotionless shut-down of a sin that is completely divorced from my feelings about the person, such as saying flatly, “I don’t agree with that.” and just letting it sit. Always an attack on what is being said or done, with no hard feelings towards the person themselves.

If you are not actually attacking the person when you do it, people sense that.

 

[estesbob]

As you can see, I was not the person who introduced the term to the thread.

Homophobia is defined as an irrational fear of and aversion to homosexuals or homosexuality. An irrational aversion to any group of people, based on parts of their nature over which they have no control, is pretty much the anthesis of what Jesus taught.

And the number of people who have homophobia is less than the number of people who are homosexual.Unfortunately it has become a term that means anyone criticizes homosexuality.

 

[Book_Worm]

Your PC shaming will not work here.

It was not I who called it homophobia; it was proudly proclaimed by a PP.

A flicker of disapproval on your face is fine.

If unproductive.

No, all sins.

Again, unproductive.

It is always valuable to discourage sin.

Actually, quite often it’s not unless you are in a person whose disapproval or attempt at discouragement is meaningful. It is much more likely to produce further alienation and disregard for the moral lessons you are trying to impart.

Don’t think that’s what he said, and secondly, there is nothing smug about discouraging sin. You’re not smugly above the PERSON, you are attacking the SIN.

I think most homosexuals feel that their sexuality is very much a part of who they are (just as heterosexuals do) and when you smugly criticize the fact that they act on the nature they feel God gave them, you ARE criticizing THEM.

 

[Joseph73]

I think most homosexuals feel that their sexuality is very much a part of who they are (just as heterosexuals do) and when you smugly criticize the fact that they act on the nature they feel God gave them, you ARE criticizing THEM.

I’m afraid that’s just not true. Heterosexuality activity is natural; homosexual activity is unnatural and contrary to natural law.

God did not will them to be disordered. Acting on their disorder in a sinful way is sin.

I am not smug about anything. I criticize sin.

 

[Book_Worm]

And the number of people who have homophobia is less than the number of people who are homosexual.Unfortunately it has become a term that means anyone criticizes homosexuality.

Perhaps that’s because many people who criticize homosexuality are homophobic. The days of attacking gays and ridiculing them are still not over.

 

[estesbob]

I think most homosexuals feel that their sexuality is very much a part of who they are (just as heterosexuals do) and when you smugly criticize the fact that they act on the nature they feel God gave them, you ARE criticizing THEM.

Criticizing their behavior.And no, very few heterosexuals identify themselves by their sexual behavior

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think you’re confusing shaming the sin with shaming the sinner. We are called upon to shoot down sin wherever we see it. If someone sitting at the Thanksgiving table has masturbated, we can’t very well shoot that down, can we? Because we can’t see it. But if he starts joking about how he masturbates and watches porn all the time, we can see the sin. Set it in your sights and shoot it down. It’s the same with homosexuality.

newadvent.org/cathen/04394a.htm

I think that this link will be valuable to you. You seem to see yourself as a vigilante out to denounce sin publicly at every opportunity. I think that you are acting more on your own ego than on the actual teachings of your church.

The two big ones that I want you to think about are the notion that fraternal correction should be done privately and only when there is a reasonable hope that the sinner will listen or care. The way that you are talking about behaving over Thanksgiving dinner is not charitable, it’s self-righteous.

 

[estesbob]

newadvent.org/cathen/04394a.htm

I think that this link will be valuable to you. You seem to see yourself as a vigilante out to denounce sin publicly at every opportunity. I think that you are acting more on your own ego than on the actual teachings of your church.

The two big ones that I want you to think about are the notion that fraternal correction should be done privately and only when there is a reasonable hope that the sinner will listen or care. The way that you are talking about behaving over Thanksgiving dinner is not charitable, it’s self-righteous.

There is no reason for it to come up unless he or his cousin choose to bring it up.As I said before this is a normal occurrence at my family gatherings and its never been an issue.