How do you talk to cafeteria Catholics?

[Alucard1966]

I read a very good excerpt in a Catholic Magazine, that you might find useful? From the book “The New Evangelization. Responding to the Challenge of Indifference” by Archbishop Rino Fisichella:

“by nature we are Catholics- that is, open to all and wishing to be alongside each person to offer them the company of the faith. We want to speak to all, even if we know that not everyone wishes to have dialogue with us. We have all been invited to knock on every door, even though we know that many remain barred. Yet, as ushers we must never forget that we offer invitations to faith; testifying and proposing, not imposing. Here lies the important distinction between evangelizing and proselytizing.”

He also proposes that we need to pray the Nicene Creed as individuals and familes.

Personally, I ask a lot of questions to find out what people are thinking and why. Then when appropriate, I calmly discuss divine law and what the Church teaches. I am probably not the most successful, but at least I was able to "Admonish the sinner’ and ‘instruct the ignorant’.

I have come to realize that a lot of these gay marriage supporters are unable to see the homosexual lifestyle as a sin. They are spiritually blind and a lot of them refuse the TRUTH.

Most cafeteria catholics are spiritually immature and ignorant of the church’s teachings.

Blessings,

Claudia

Brilliant. The Cafeteria Catholics could have changed the course of American History 2 weeks ago, had they followed Church teachings and the wishes of the USCCB. But Cafeterias do as they please, when they please, with no remorse, or little to no concern over what Archbishops think. Let me give some examples here.

1. I know of a woman who is pro choice, and a Democrat. She refuses to listen to reason. I have TRIED to tell her that as a Catholic, she must be pro life, and she states that “no Priest, Archbishop or Church will tell her, or any woman what to do with their own bodies” and believes that people have a right to use contraceptives as they please. She and her husband go to Sunday Mass very semi regularly. I have also told her it is a requirement of her Church to attend REGULAR Sunday Mass, and if they dont, they must go to confession before they recieve the Holy Eucharist. They dont listen. They arrive just in time to miss the Liturgy of the Word, and leave directly after recieving communion. This is very common with Cafeterias. Those that bother to attend once a month, many do Easter, Midnight Mass and Weddings and Funerals…she also states that recieving the Eucharist makes her feel “good inside”…2. Another pal of mine and his wife wanted to get married in the Church and they were told that they, as a couple would have to attend these classes, given by a Catholic priest, on what marriage in the Catholic Church was all about… So fine and well, they attended along with about 6-8 other couples. They said the priest went on immediatley about Church teachings on the evil of contraceptives and how they were from now on to use “NFP” if they wanted to have sex for purely carnal reasons. Otherwise, they were to “keep it open to life” and the consenses among ALL the couples, (Once the Priest left the room) was that many of them were going to school, or had careers, or were trying to save $$$ to buy a first home and right now could NOT have, nor did they want kids. BUT they were going to honeymoon like Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson as often as they pleased for the sake of lustful pleasure with their spouse, and all agreed that they would continue with Ortho-Novum 7-7-7, and still go through with the Church Wedding, for the sake of their families “demanding a Church wedding” What are some opinions of this, particularly by some Catholic Priests, or Forum elders?

 

[AnneTeresa]

1. . The Baby Boomers tend to have that destructive effect no matter where they go. I hope they won’t end up destroying our nation permanently but I sometimes suspect that they will before they all die off. Your generations will have to pick up the pieces and go on. I pray that the Church will be reformed from the inside out, and will return to orthodoxy instead of tolerating this heresy that the 1960’s hippie generation has brought with it. Pray for these people. They are in delusion.

Really? Wow. Just wow.

 

[Faithdancer]

1. Speak UP in that situation! Be charitable, if you can, but admonish the sinner! Take inspiration from Jesus in the temple! Don’t be self-righteous but DO stand up for God’s Commandments!
2. Talk to your mother in a charitable way. Giving her a list of mortal sins is not going to have any impact because it is very likely that she does not consider herself to be in mortal sin. She may not even believe there IS such a thing as mortal sin. And if she does, she will think that those issues are in some way exempt from it, and that the Church is wrong. So your action will have no impact other than to alienate you from her.
3. A very valid concern, unfortunately. The Baby Boomers tend to have that destructive effect no matter where they go. I hope they won’t end up destroying our nation permanently but I sometimes suspect that they will before they all die off. Your generations will have to pick up the pieces and go on. I pray that the Church will be reformed from the inside out, and will return to orthodoxy instead of tolerating this heresy that the 1960’s hippie generation has brought with it. Pray for these people. They are in delusion.

I’ve disagreed with Juliane elsewhere but not this time. I am 100% in accord.

 

[Faithdancer]

Next time you’re at the mens group, suggest starting a course in the teachings of the Church since there seeems to be a lot of confusion. we absolutely have to keep speaking out when someone proclaims their own version of the Catholic Church. Be strong, be vocal, be loving but don’t be silent.

This is a charitable suggestion. Unfortunately many of these 5th column “Cafeteria” Catholics consider themselves “free thinkers” who know better than the Magisterium when it comes to some issues, such as abortion and same sex “marriage.” They will argue that Obama will do more for the poor, and therefore voting for him is a higher moral imperative than voting against abortion and same sex “marriage.” This begs the question, however- what exactly is it that Obama has done for the poor?

Better that the heterodox should leave the Church, if they cannot amend their thinking. The Church can get along just fine without them and their “modernism.”

 

[Alucard1966]

This is a charitable suggestion. Unfortunately many of these 5th column “Cafeteria” Catholics consider themselves “free thinkers” who know better than the Magisterium when it comes to some issues, such as abortion and same sex “marriage.” They will argue that Obama will do more for the poor, and therefore voting for him is a higher moral imperative than voting against abortion and same sex “marriage.” This begs the question, however- what exactly is it that Obama has done for the poor?

Better that the heterodox should leave the Church, if they cannot amend their thinking. The Church can get along just fine without them and their “modernism.”

Agreed except for one simple concept. The Cafeteria Catholic may be heretical in their thinking, but they do have one important attribute. That checkbook, which the little wicker baskets with handles collects every mass. A friend of mine is a waiter at a Steakhouse. He said that he recalls a big table of 7-8 priests with the Monsignor heading the conversation. He said that they ordered all high end steaks and drinks with specifially only top shelf vodka, ect. When the check came, they paid with an Archdiocese issued card??? If they all took the “Vow of Poverty” where did the $$$ come from to spring for the Grey Goose Martinis, and the extra rare T-bones? Hmmmm:shrug:

 

[Richard320]

Agreed except for one simple concept. The Cafeteria Catholic may be heretical in their thinking, but they do have one important attribute. That checkbook, which the little wicker baskets with handles collects every mass. A friend of mine is a waiter at a Steakhouse. He said that he recalls a big table of 7-8 priests with the Monsignor heading the conversation. He said that they ordered all high end steaks and drinks with specifially only top shelf vodka, ect. When the check came, they paid with an Archdiocese issued card??? If they all took the “Vow of Poverty” where did the $$$ come from to spring for the Grey Goose Martinis, and the extra rare T-bones? Hmmmm:shrug:

WRONG!! Diocesan Priests do not take a vow of poverty. Better get the facts straight before you offer a judgment.

Priests give up a lot when they get ordained - home, wife, children, regular hours, privacy. I won’t begrudge them a night out. Sounds like some sort of celebration dinner to me, and you’ll find most businesses pay for this sort of thing.

Did they stiff your friend the waiter? If not, then there is nothing to criticize.

 

[Faithdancer]

Agreed except for one simple concept. The Cafeteria Catholic may be heretical in their thinking, but they do have one important attribute. That checkbook, which the little wicker baskets with handles collects every mass. A friend of mine is a waiter at a Steakhouse. He said that he recalls a big table of 7-8 priests with the Monsignor heading the conversation. He said that they ordered all high end steaks and drinks with specifially only top shelf vodka, ect. When the check came, they paid with an Archdiocese issued card??? If they all took the “Vow of Poverty” where did the $$$ come from to spring for the Grey Goose Martinis, and the extra rare T-bones? Hmmmm:shrug:

Should the destructive views of the heterodox be overlooked so as not to interrupt their tithing?

I don’t see the connection with the anecdote about priests at dinner. Priests enjoying excessive luxury at the archdiocese’s expense would certainly be wrong. However, I should point out that secular priests do not take a vow of poverty- only religious order priests do this.

 

[Adamski]

“social justice”

Is the term my “hippie” parents use to promote “gay marriage” and abortion to under mine the gospel.

I left the catholic church for 15 years because it didn’t make sense, all the upside down teaching until I realized there where people with in the church trying to undermine Christ’s message

 

[Alucard1966]

WRONG!! Diocesan Priests do not take a vow of poverty. Better get the facts straight before you offer a judgment.

Priests give up a lot when they get ordained - home, wife, children, regular hours, privacy. I won’t begrudge them a night out. Sounds like some sort of celebration dinner to me, and you’ll find most businesses pay for this sort of thing.

Did they stiff your friend the waiter? If not, then there is nothing to criticize.

And what would Mother Teresa say about the extra rare T-bones and the Grey Goose Martinis, shaken slightly, 2 olives, dry, think? Hmmm. So where did the $$$ come from if not the wicker baskets? and is this morally acceptable? Why exactly was it that Christ made a whip of cords at the Temple anyway? Hmmmm

 

[Lochias]

Agreed except for one simple concept. The Cafeteria Catholic may be heretical in their thinking, but they do have one important attribute. That checkbook, which the little wicker baskets with handles collects every mass. A friend of mine is a waiter at a Steakhouse. He said that he recalls a big table of 7-8 priests with the Monsignor heading the conversation. He said that they ordered all high end steaks and drinks with specifially only top shelf vodka, ect. When the check came, they paid with an Archdiocese issued card??? If they all took the “Vow of Poverty” where did the $$$ come from to spring for the Grey Goose Martinis, and the extra rare T-bones? Hmmmm:shrug:

One: Priests don’t take a Vow of Poverty in the way you describe.

Two: Who gave you the authority to declare that martinis and steaks are evil?

 

[Lochias]

And what would Mother Teresa say about the extra rare T-bones and the Grey Goose Martinis, shaken slightly, 2 olives, dry, think? Hmmm. So where did the $$$ come from if not the wicker baskets? and is this morally acceptable? Why exactly was it that Christ made a whip of cords at the Temple anyway? Hmmmm

Christ drove out the money-changers because they were conducting business where there should be worship…has nothing, nothing to do at all, with a priest having a nice dinner.

Seriously, do you equate priests as being people, or robots? What gives you the right to judge?

 

[minkymurph]

“social justice”

Is the term my “hippie” parents use to promote “gay marriage” and abortion to under mine the gospel.

I left the catholic church for 15 years because it didn’t make sense, all the upside down teaching until I realized there where people with in the church trying to undermine Christ’s message

My two cents worth would be there is a difference between Catholic Social Teaching and a secular view of social justice, and this is perhaps what they are confusing. I would say they are also confusing social justice arguments and equal citizenship arguments.

My way of addressing this, and I’m not saying this is an approach everyone should adopt and it is the right one, the state can recognize gay marriage in a civil sense as they have that authority and are elected. The Church cannot, and the reason the Church does not recognize it has nothing to do with equality of opportunity. It has to do with the fact marriage is a Sacrament. As such, it has matter and form. You can’t join two men and two women in a sacramental marriage any more than you can baptize with coca-cola or substitute McDonald’s burgers for the Eucharist. I’m not saying that to be irreverent, I’m saying it to illustrate the point.

Freedom of religion also means the state should not force someone to act contrary to their religious beliefs. As such, the state cannot force someone to marry a same sex couple if it is against their religious beliefs. If the priest were acting as an agent of the state, he would be obliged to act as the state directed, but he is not. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not forced to have blood transfusions and I’ll bet no one shouts about the fact they don’t marry same sex couples, or any other minority religious group to the same extent they shout about the fact the Catholic Church won’t do it.

The abortion issue is a difficult one as it is a highly emotive and highly politicized topic. As such, it is very difficult to discuss it. What I would say is there are many issues in the abortion debate that cloud the real issue, which is at what stage of a pregnancy does the fetus cease to be biological material and become human life and what does a woman (in this case) have the right to do in relation to her own body and what does should she be prevented from doing? In the UK, a woman cannot have a termination beyond 24 weeks. As such, it is protected by Human Rights. What justifies not protecting a fetus that is 23 weeks and 29 days? What biological differences exist between the two?

 

[Seeker1961]

I think it’s interesting how both sides of the social justice spectrum accuse the other of picking the teachings that fit their own personal opinions and ignoring the ones that don’t.

 

[Alucard1966]

Christ drove out the money-changers because they were conducting business where there should be worship…has nothing, nothing to do at all, with a priest having a nice dinner.

Seriously, do you equate priests as being people, or robots? What gives you the right to judge?

I disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY

 

[Alucard1966]

One: Priests don’t take a Vow of Poverty in the way you describe.

Two: Who gave you the authority to declare that martinis and steaks are evil?

Three. Where did the money come from? Or was it divine intrevention, the whole 5 loaves and 5 fishes theory? Or in this case, 5 T-Bones and 5 Grey Goose Martinis with appetizers, and dessert as well!

 

[Armor_of_Light]

This is a charitable suggestion. Unfortunately many of these 5th column “Cafeteria” Catholics consider themselves “free thinkers” who know better than the Magisterium when it comes to some issues, such as abortion and same sex “marriage.” They will argue that Obama will do more for the poor, and therefore voting for him is a higher moral imperative than voting against abortion and same sex “marriage.” This begs the question, however- what exactly is it that Obama has done for the poor?

Better that the heterodox should leave the Church, if they cannot amend their thinking. The Church can get along just fine without them and their “modernism.”

Fully agree!

You MENSA people are so smart…

I’m also agreeing with Alucard1966 today. We need someone like him (or her) to point out our flaws from time to time. I happen to think that we should say good riddance to bad rubbish (music reference…anyone?) and live wirthout their money…however much that is…we’ll be fine.

 

[Alucard1966]

Fully agree!

You MENSA people are so smart…

I’m also agreeing with Alucard1966 today. We need someone like him (or her) to point out our flaws from time to time. I happen to think that we should say good riddance to bad rubbish (music reference…anyone?) and live wirthout their money…however much that is…we’ll be fine.

Nice. It’s my opinion that the USCCB and the Vatican should tell all Cafeteria Catholics to leave the Church if they arent going to adhere to the rules.

 

[Lochias]

I disagree WHOLEHEARTEDLY

Good for you. That’s not an argument.

 

[Lochias]

Three. Where did the money come from? Or was it divine intrevention, the whole 5 loaves and 5 fishes theory? Or in this case, 5 T-Bones and 5 Grey Goose Martinis with appetizers, and dessert as well!

Who cares where the money came from? Did they spend it on something illegal or wrong?

 

[Alucard1966]

Good for you. That’s not an argument.

Do you think Mother Teresa would have joined in, extra rare, side of asparagus, and ordered a Grey goose to toast the Monsignor with, or would have chastised all of them for living like rich men who wouldnt fit through the eye of a needle like that camel? Hmmmmm