How has the Pennsylvania scandal affected you personally?

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I understand. The only reason I pointed it out is because a lot of non-Catholics read these threads and I didn’t want anybody to think we really think a priest is divine.
 
Just because Summer Camp leader does something does not advocate Priest doing the same thing.

Yes, this is a societal issue. It traverses both the secular and the religious.

Here in the UK, a group of Rotherham men groomed and abused school girls. It took ages for the authorities to respond. There was mass outrage when the men came to trial in 2012.

The Church of England has had its share of child abuse scandals. Public outcry ensued.

Public outrage isn’t restricted to this Catholic scandal. Personally, I see blaming “anti-Catholics” as a deflection. As you say: “One child is one child too many”. This scandal involves 1,000 children by over 300 priests. “Anti-Catholics” didn’t commit the abuses. Those priests laid the fire and lit the match themselves.
 
phil19034 said:
True. However, do we really need to change the statue of limitations?
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Yes, these crimes and they were crimes were covered up. Statue of limitation shouldn’t apply to situation like these where a coverup involving multiple leaders did their best to avoid criminal charges.
phil19034 said:
while the leaders did cover up the details, there were still a TON of lay people who knew what was going on with certain priests. But people didn’t want the scandal. It wasn’t just the bishops who wanted to avoid scandal, plenty of Catholic parents during the 1950s, 1960s, & even 1970s and early 1980s would not have wanted such details to be discussed in public
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Doesnt matter a crime was committed. The church teaching tells us that all those guilty of a crime face more than God’s punishment. The sooner catholic force their leaders to release all records and investigations from law enforcement takes place the sooner we can clean this stain from the church. Why so many catholic are so willing to say this happened in the past lets leave it there is the wrong position to take.

If nothing else these men need to face society for their criminal actions. If that means their “good” reputation is destroyed because they didn’t deserve it in the first place, so be it.
 
phil19034 said:
However, do we really need to change the statue of limitations? It seems that we are becoming more open to reporting sexual abuse than we were as a society in generations past. (But we still have more work to do)
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In my opinion, we do not need to change it, especially where, as here, it’s already been slightly extended.

It sounds like there is a push to give a handful of the victims of these old cases a slightly extended time window in order to bring a lawsuit. While I’m somewhere between neutral and not in favor of that, it’s a reasonable “ask” if they only want a short extension, and they might get it. My concern is that once these go beyond 15 or 20 years, we’re into false memory territory, which has been a problem in the past with some adult accusers.
 
Jezra said:
Just because Summer Camp leader does something does not advocate Priest doing the same thing.
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Indeed. And when people point out (as I myself have in other contexts) that these abuses occur in higher rates in other denominations, and that other professions them exhibit them at a higher rate than clerics (school teachers generally have the highest rate) it misses the point that we’re uniquely focused upon as we are The Church, so our failings here are uniquely hideous as we fall so short of where we should be.

The time has really come to prune rotten stocks of the tree beyond the point of infection. And the Faithful laity are going to have to be the ones who demand that.
 
It has made me sad and uncertain. But I always remember that as the Psalm says, “Put not your trust in princes”. I have resolved to pray the Saint Michael prayer every day and fast on every Friday. I am also going to write a letter to my priests telling them that I love and support them for their life of service and will never cease praying for them.
 
I’m so sorry for what you were put through by the clergy and by your mother. Praying for you.
 
Wendy1989 said:
Deacons are to be obedient to the priest and the priest to the bishop.
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On a little known point, Deacons actually serve their Bishops, not the Priests. Deacons are supposed to be the eyes and ears of the Bishop at the Parish level.

As part of that, note that the Deacons in at least the Latin Rite rarely move from Parish to Parish, in contrast to the Priests.
Wendy1989 said:
I’ve been reading some works on Theology of the Body in light of Humane Vitae. The regard and respect for the highest of God’s creation is not being clouded in the ‘cone of silence’.

Currently, my parish is in renovation mode. Father has gone a bit bonkers and is only communicating with a select few (Finance Board & Parish Council) as to the plans. The parish has had no recent communication as to how much this is all costing us. I was told “We just need to support Father and do whatever he asks us to do” or 'This is what Father wants and we just have to respect it". Because of the money that’s being spent, I doubt my priest will say a word. He doesn’t want to upset the major doners.

The attitude of 'Whatever Father wants, we must obey" is a huge part of the problem. We need a culture change.
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I agree with you.

Indeed, I’ve served in the Parish Council role and never took that attitude while on it. Most of the fellow council persons I served with didn’t either.

Which takes me to this.

One thing that marks Catholics in contrasts with Protestants is that we’re highly used to having things provided to us. Indeed, in certain Parishes in certain communities that’s so pronounced that the Laity basically doesn’t expect to have to do anything.

One of the “reforms” of Vatican II was supposed to be increased involvement of the Laity. I think the Council got that right, but to be quite frank I think it was applied very badly in that this opened the door to an entire group of people who thought involvement meant that they could get in and change the very nature of the Church in keeping with their highly liberal views. It’s taken decades for that process to work out and its starting to, which is one of the tragedies of the current situation in that, if you are tapped into the younger laity, they are often much more orthodox than their Baby Boomer fellows. But, what I also think is that the era has frankly arrived where the laity needs to be directly involved in oversight. That means transparency on a local and diocesan level. And not just on finances, but on policies and even in terms of departures from orthodoxy.

That requires an informed involved laity that knows its faith. Unfortunately, most Catholics are generally of the show up on Sunday and Holy Days variety, and that’s not going to get the job done.
 
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F_Marturana said:
I was under the impression that the scandal a number of years ago cleared out all the weeds.

I guess I’m naive.

My oldest son never was an altar server, my youngest is about the age to start. I wouldn’t have thought to say no before.

I’m angry now.

I have the feeling that no one is safe anymore.
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The scandal of several years ago did bring about some good changes. However, as parents of young kids we still have to be diligent.

I always told my daughter that no one touches her private parts, unless I give the okay. (Granted this wouldn’t work with all mothers, but I’m not going to let anyone abuse my kiddo, nor would I ever). We kept the lines of communication OPEN, I asked her about sleepovers, told her that if she EVER felt uncomfortable she could just tell the parents that she didn’t feel good and to please call me to come get her. She never wanted to be an altar server, so that never came up, but she was very involved in youth ministry and had occasion to socialize with clergy through that and never indicated any issues. I reminded her constantly (or so it seemed), that if she ever felt uncomfortable with a teacher, clergy, any other adult, to let me know. Thankfully, there have been no issues.

Now she’s a young adult away at college, and frankly I think all the conversations we had have helped her navigate the rough waters in that arena.

My advice to you would be to let your child participate in any way he/she wants in church, be watchful, and keep the lines of communication wide open.
 
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Jezra said:
Just because Summer Camp leader does something does not advocate Priest doing the same thing.

Yes, this is a societal issue. It traverses both the secular and the religious.

Here in the UK, a group of Rotherham men groomed and abused school girls. It took ages for the authorities to respond. There was mass outrage when the men came to trial in 2012.

The Church of England has had its share of child abuse scandals. Public outcry ensued.

Public outrage isn’t restricted to this Catholic scandal. Personally, I see blaming “anti-Catholics” as a deflection. As you say: “One child is one child too many”. This scandal involves 1,000 children by over 300 priests. “Anti-Catholics” didn’t commit the abuses. Those priests laid the fire and lit the match themselves.
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And those priests deserve to burn in hell!

Yes, when a priest does this, it’s HORRIBLE. But it’s really not less horrible when it’s an adult summer camp counselor.

The facts are, we let some priests into the seminary who should have never been there. Homosexuals and other men with other impure sexual desires should not be allowed in the priesthood.

But Gay priests and bishops like the former Cardinal protect their own, while others feared the gay lobby due to scandal.

The truth is, the gay lobby inside the Catholic Church is the problem because they protect the sexual deviants and the straight clergy has been afraid of them.

Orthodox clergy need to stop being afraid and kick the members of the gay lobby and other dissents to orthodoxy out of the clergy.

Plain and simple
 
Irishmom2 said:
Well that’s why I said all children should have this discussion, concerning anyone they might encounter. Too many stories are around where children later stated they were told not to tell, that it was their secret, or their family would be harmed if they told anyone. Children need to be told they should not listen to that, and always tell their parents.
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I am willing to bet many of these children were told just that.
 
Jezra, Thank you for saying this.

" Public outrage isn’t restricted to this Catholic scandal. Personally, I see blaming “anti-Catholics” as a deflection. As you say: “One child is one child too many”. This scandal involves 1,000 children by over 300 priests. “Anti-Catholics” didn’t commit the abuses. Those priests laid the fire and lit the match themselves."

When I read comments about saying “Oh see how the devil is attacking the church, oh see how protestants are gloating” etc etc it makes me feel like a boot coming down and crushing me into the mud with it’s heel. As if it’s not bad enough to have experienced the abuse in the first place, now I’m supposed to feel sorry for the poor Church who is so unfairly being judged for atrocities committed by and covered up by it’s ordained clergy.

No, the devil didn’t do it. No the gloaters aren’t responsible. Ordained clergy did it and protected other clergy who were also doing it for DECADES at the expense of thousands of victims.

The devil and Protestants would have zero to gloat about had these people not freely committed these acts in the first place. There is zero way to explain it away or point fingers at anyone but the abusers and those who protected them.

Instead I see some people still wanting to protect the Church and somehow skate over the reality. If the Catholic Church is truly what it claims to be, I guess the good news is members have nothing to worry about. It’s protected. This is a blip on the radar and eventually it will be business as usual again. For those who’s lives and souls were crushed by what happened it’s a bit harder to return to business as usual.
 
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Not on the same scale or with the same degree of widespread hierarchical complicity.
 
Yeoman said:
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Jezra:
Just because Summer Camp leader does something does not advocate Priest doing the same thing.
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Indeed. And when people point out (as I myself have in other contexts) that these abuses occur in higher rates in other denominations, and that other professions them exhibit them at a higher rate than clerics (school teachers generally have the highest rate) it misses the point that we’re uniquely focused upon as we are The Church, so our failings here are uniquely hideous as we fall so short of where we should be.

The time has really come to prune rotten stocks of the tree beyond the point of infection. And the Faithful laity are going to have to be the ones who demand that.
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Ok… it is TOTALLY acceptable for CATHOLICS to hold our priests to a higher standard.

But it’s NOT ok for the GOVERNMENT & NON-CATHOLICS to hold Catholic priests to a higher standard.

That’s where my issue is. I have NO ISSUE with CATHOLICS demanding XYZ. But I do take issue with govts and lawyers, etc hanging up on the Church without equally going after ALL sexual abusers.

The civil authorities must treat all sexual criminals the same way. Not single out one group due to their vocation.
 
Thank you, much appreciated.

In many sexual abuse cases the perpetrator uses threats to protect themselves, but when the perpetrator can with hold sacraments and absolution and says that you must listen because they represent Christ himself, it creates an impossible situation. Do what I say or you and mommy burn in hell.

As has been pointed out by others, priests, due to their authority, have an upperhand that most abusers do not. I’m not sure that many people understand just how that can mess with a mind and soul to be put in that kind of position by someone we are told stands in for Christ himself.
 
My family is really struggling with this. My wife wants to take a break from going to Mass, and instead focus on praying before the Eucharist during Adoration, as she tries to keep her Catholic faith and the institution of the Church somewhat separate. It’s so painful for me to see her going through this, and I pray that Jesus and Mary will guide her back quickly. I don’t know what to tell her or what I can do to help her navigate this challenge along her faith journey.
 
Fair point, but I think even factoring that in they have scandals that seem quaint by comparison. Not the same degree of child rape.
 
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