How hell could possibly be justified?

[STT]

Hell is justified because people who go to Hell go there by rejecting God. Why should unrepentant sinners have anything less than what they asked for?

So according to you God is allowed to torture irrational people? Wesrock believes the opposite.

 

[STT]

How do you categorize those who chose to misuse their free will as “irrational”? By your measure, those who reject God are insane and/or God erred in creating hell. Consider that you misunderstand the premise of mercy versus justice.

Yes, even us doesn’t torture insane people. Therefore there is no point in creation Hell unless you could show otherwise!

 

[STT]

When you become God, then you can fix it.



Please keep in mind that God is THE CREATOR.

GOD IS INFINITE.

And we are mere creations.

Are you saying that God cannot convenience us that we deserve Hell? Why should we follow His way if we cannot rationalize Hell?

 

[STT]

Someone denied the use of reason could not be guilty of a sin that would send them to Hell. Those who go to Hell are not the irrational but the evil.

Isn’t an evil act an irrational act? Are you saying that rational act could be evil also!?

 

[STT]

Believe it or not, but there are plenty of perfectly rational and sane people who choose to do extreme evil for their own personal satisfaction and glory. They deliberately choose this path and know what they are doing is wrong. If they refuse to repent and change their ways, why should they merit heaven beside the ones who have chosen to live righteously and loved God and did good for their fellow humans instead of lying, stealing, torturing, raping, murdering, etc.? Tell me how would that be justified?

Even non-believers know what is good and what is evil and make the choice to do good or evil. You don’t have to be irrational to do great evil.

Those in hell chose that path

Why should we blame those individuals who can rationalize evil? Are you saying that we can rationalize evil?

 

[James248]

How could possibly God create Hell and justify it knowing the fact that just irrational people goes against God’s plan for us, goodness? Why should God torture irrational people?

Because there are those who simply don’t want to obey God or take part in His life. It all boils down to “Non serviam, I will not serve!”

 

[STT]

Because there are those who simply don’t want to obey God or take part in His life. It all boils down to “Non serviam, I will not serve!”

What do you mean with simply? You mean they have no reason?

 

[BobCatholic]

There are two types of people who go to hell.

One who sees God, gives him the middle finger and is GLAD he’s going to hell. He hates God and can’t wait to get out of his face. He moons God as he enters the elevator going down.

The other one finally sees God. Oh…my…gosh…He is so loving and kind, and here I lived like a complete and utter sinner. I feel so guilty and I can’t look him in the eye, I really let him down. This person jumps into hell to avoid all the huge amount of guilt. This person goes to hell and weeps.

Imagine if you met Steve Urkel. Depending on your personality, you’ll either think that hanging around with him is hell or heaven. If you’re a huge star trek fan, you’re in heaven, you’ll be debating Kirk vs Picard and having talks about how technology like that could be made. If you got nothing in common with him, then hanging around with him is hell.

God is the same way. If you understand him, and get him, then you want to love him and being with God is heaven. But if you don’t get him, don’t understand him, you don’t love him and don’t want to be with him. Being with God would be hellish in that case. Hell, would be a mercy since they’ll suffer less there than if they were forced to be with God.

 

[AbideWithMe]

There are two types of people who go to hell.

One who sees God, gives him the middle finger and is GLAD he’s going to hell. He hates God and can’t wait to get out of his face. He moons God as he enters the elevator going down.

The other one finally sees God. Oh…my…gosh…He is so loving and kind, and here I lived like a complete and utter sinner. I feel so guilty and I can’t look him in the eye, I really let him down. This person jumps into hell to avoid all the huge amount of guilt. This person goes to hell and weeps.

Imagine if you met Steve Urkel. Depending on your personality, you’ll either think that hanging around with him is hell or heaven. If you’re a huge star trek fan, you’re in heaven, you’ll be debating Kirk vs Picard and having talks about how technology like that could be made. If you got nothing in common with him, then hanging around with him is hell.

God is the same way. If you understand him, and get him, then you want to love him and being with God is heaven. But if you don’t get him, don’t understand him, you don’t love him and don’t want to be with him. Being with God would be hellish in that case. Hell, would be a mercy since they’ll suffer less there than if they were forced to be with God.

But wouldn’t person #2 repent even then if he or she was able to understand God desires to forgive their guilt? What of the very many people who grow up in families that teach them the habit of hiding their guilt from fear of punishment?

Though it’s not a perfect comparison, I have one dog who I got when he was an adult. He had already learned as a puppy from his previous owner that he had best run and hide if he did something naughty. Now, he just hunkers down and won’t make eye contact if he does something wrong. In contrast, my other dog I’ve raised from a young puppy from a good start. She comes right to me, hands over the illicit chewed item and “repents” most expressively and with eye contact, without undue fear, because she expects people to be trustworthy. During the rare times she’s been scolded, she just presses herself more tightly against me because she was raised in a way that she trusts people to be good to her. My other dog didn’t have that privilege of having a good upbringing. But that’s not his fault.

 

[Operations66]

Nobody knows the answer to that question, OP. Hopefully we will find out more about how the mind of God works when we get to the kingdom of heaven. Until then it’s just speculation.

For now just try your best to lead a good Catholic life. I was a grave sinner for many years but finally woke up and am now doing my best to avoid the fires of hell, whatever they may be.

 

[James248]

What do you mean with simply? You mean they have no reason?

They have no good reason.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Why should we blame those individuals who can rationalize evil? Are you saying that we can rationalize evil?

What I am saying is that these people are in their right mind and have sufficient intelligence and choose to do evil, they know it is wrong and do it anyway because of some desire for personal satisfaction, power, glory, etc. They know the difference between good and evil, but choose to do the evil.

If they were insane or unable to reason (such as a child or severely mentally challenged person might be) that is a different story. The act may be evil, but the person cannot be held accountable.

 

[STT]

What I am saying is that these people are in their right mind and have sufficient intelligence and choose to do evil, they know it is wrong and do it anyway because of some desire for personal satisfaction, power, glory, etc. They know the difference between good and evil, but choose to do the evil.

If they were insane or unable to reason (such as a child or severely mentally challenged person might be) that is a different story. The act may be evil, but the person cannot be held accountable.

So according to you there are rational people who really believe that what they do is wrong. Isn’t rationality in favor of goodness? If not, how we could possibly have any moral system?

 

[STT]

They have no good reason.

Is capacity to serve in our nature?

 

[CB_Catholic]

Isn’t an evil act an irrational act? Are you saying that rational act could be evil also!?

What you are missing is that there can be rational thinking behind the evil. That rational thinking used to do evil by choice is what leads a person to hell. He rationally decided to choose to do the evil. You do not have to be irrational or insane to do evil. You can choose it, knowing it is wrong. And perfectly rational people do this all the time. Ask any judge or jury. Rational people are convicted of evil deeds and are punished for them all the time.

You may consider evil an irrational thing, but the choice to do it is not, if a person is not insane or mentally incompetent. THAT is what leads to hell.

 

[STT]

What you are missing is that there can be rational thinking behind the evil. That rational thinking used to do evil by choice is what leads a person to hell. He rationally decided to choose to do the evil. You do not have to be irrational or insane to do evil. You can choose it, knowing it is wrong. And perfectly rational people do this all the time. Ask any judge or jury. Rational people are convicted of evil deeds and are punished for them all the time.

You may consider evil an irrational thing, but the choice to do it is not, if a person is not insane or mentally incompetent. THAT is what leads to hell.

So you mean that there are people who fool themselves?

 

[BobCatholic]

But wouldn’t person #2 repent even then if he or she was able to understand God desires to forgive their guilt? What of the very many people who grow up in families that teach them the habit of hiding their guilt from fear of punishment?

Person#2 had the chance during life to repent and didn’t. If one is in front of God, time ran out.

It is regret.

Like the guy who walks out of a casino after losing his rent check. The landlord is not going to be happy with him.

. My other dog didn’t have that privilege of having a good upbringing. But that’s not his fault.

That’s something I struggle with - we are created imperfect, and imperfections cause people’s free will to be negatively affected. I say that free will is a cruel joke at best or non-existent at worst - and I believe most are somewhere in that range.

 

[CB_Catholic]

So according to you there are rational people who really believe that what they do is wrong. Isn’t rationality in favor of goodness? If not, how we could possibly have any moral system?

Following your line of thinking, no one would be convicted of a crime, because they would not be rational and choose evil. Sorry, that is not “rational”. Even the law recognizes that evil can be a rational choice deserving of punishment.

I think the problem is that you don’t like the idea of hell, and you are just making circular arguments playing games with words because you can’t think of anything else. You don’t want to believe? Fine. Just say it. That is a lot more acceptable and honest than making circular arguments.

 

[STT]

There are two types of people who go to hell.

One who sees God, gives him the middle finger and is GLAD he’s going to hell. He hates God and can’t wait to get out of his face. He moons God as he enters the elevator going down.

The other one finally sees God. Oh…my…gosh…He is so loving and kind, and here I lived like a complete and utter sinner. I feel so guilty and I can’t look him in the eye, I really let him down. This person jumps into hell to avoid all the huge amount of guilt. This person goes to hell and weeps.

Imagine if you met Steve Urkel. Depending on your personality, you’ll either think that hanging around with him is hell or heaven. If you’re a huge star trek fan, you’re in heaven, you’ll be debating Kirk vs Picard and having talks about how technology like that could be made. If you got nothing in common with him, then hanging around with him is hell.

God is the same way. If you understand him, and get him, then you want to love him and being with God is heaven. But if you don’t get him, don’t understand him, you don’t love him and don’t want to be with him. Being with God would be hellish in that case. Hell, would be a mercy since they’ll suffer less there than if they were forced to be with God.

Those example make no sense to me. Just a imperfect being can sin. We are created imperfect!

 

[James248]

Is capacity to serve in our nature?

Yes. To serve the Lord.