How hell could possibly be justified?

[Reepicheep]

Or he makes a rational choice and manage to resist sin by making a rational decision constantly. So according to what we said either what we performed is no sin because we were irrational or we manage to resist sin and stay rational. So what is the Hell for? Nobody is going there. How can you rationalize Hell?

You seem to think that no rational person can commit a sin. If that is what you think, then you are mistaken. It is possible for a rational person to commit a sin.

Edit:
STT, will you define the word ‘rational’ for us? It might be that we do not mean the same thing by that word.

 

[STT]

You seem to think that no rational person can commit a sin. If that is what you think, then you are mistaken. It is possible for a rational person to commit a sin.

What does make a rational person to sin then? Temptation?

Edit:
STT, will you define the word ‘rational’ for us? It might be that we do not mean the same thing by that word.

Rational: based on or in accordance with reason or logic

 

[STT]

Following your line of thinking, no one would be convicted of a crime, because they would not be rational and choose evil. Sorry, that is not “rational”. Even the law recognizes that evil can be a rational choice deserving of punishment.

Is morality a rational system dealing with good and bad?

 

[Vico]

How could possibly God create Hell and justify it knowing the fact that just irrational people goes against God’s plan for us, goodness? Why should God torture irrational people?

First God creates the simple human nature with immortal rational soul and mortal body, which would not naturally know Him (Beatific Vision) in the afterlife. Then God gives the gift of His supernatural grace that a particular human can have that Beatific Vision if that person uses that supernatural gift with free will choice to be good. Hell is an eternal afterlife state without the Beatific Vision.

Supernatural gifts are beyond those of created nature.

 

[ANV]

First God creates the simple human nature with immortal rational soul and mortal body, which would not naturally know Him (Beatific Vision) in the afterlife. Then God gives the gift of His supernatural grace that a particular human can have that Beatific Vision if that person uses that supernatural gift with free will choice to be good. Hell is an eternal afterlife state without the Beatific Vision.

Supernatural gifts are beyond those of created nature.

According to what this supernatural gift is given?

 

[Vico]

According to what this supernatural gift is given?

The supernatural gift is given by God that men may become adopted sons of God.

“That they all may be one, as thou, Father in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us. . . . And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: l in thee; and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one” (John 17:21-23)

 

[ANV]

The supernatural gift is given by God that men may become adopted sons of God.

“That they all may be one, as thou, Father in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us. . . . And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: l in thee; and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one” (John 17:21-23)

But some people get that grace of gift more obvious, prophets, saints etc. so it is not equally given or obvious to everyone.

 

[Vico]

But some people get that grace of gift more obvious, prophets, saints etc. so it is not equally given or obvious to everyone.

Grace given in the amount needed for each, and some reject it.

 

[ANV]

Grace given in the amount needed for each, and some reject it.

So it isn’t equally given for everyone or at least by the same obvious ways, since saints and prophets got their grace more obvious and others haven’t got it at all.

 

[Vonsalza]

So it isn’t equally given for everyone or at least by the same obvious ways, since saints and prophets got their grace more obvious and others haven’t got it at all.

I would challenge the last bit of your statement here.

You may hold that such grace is not apparent, thus non-existent in some anecdotal case. I would argue that this requires a knowledge that we don’t have access to.
In cases where we’re discussing ourselves, it would be a situation of refusal or denial with a follow-up of conflating those things with absence.

 

[STT]

Grace given in the amount needed for each, and some reject it.

Why should any rational being reject a gift?

 

[Ignatius]

How could possibly God create Hell and justify it knowing the fact that just irrational people goes against God’s plan for us, goodness? Why should God torture irrational people?

God doesn’t send anyone to hell. Only those who voluntarily choose it go there. You can’t go there accidentally, you have to have full knowledge and full consent of the will.

 

[STT]

God doesn’t send anyone to hell. Only those who voluntarily choose it go there. You can’t go there accidentally, you have to have full knowledge and full consent of the will.

That (bold part) seems irrational to me. Why anyone purposefully decide to get tortured?

 

[ANV]

I would challenge the last bit of your statement here.

You may hold that such grace is not apparent, thus non-existent in some anecdotal case. I would argue that this requires a knowledge that we don’t have access to.
In cases where we’re discussing ourselves, it would be a situation of refusal or denial with a follow-up of conflating those things with absence.

No, I’m saying that it is not equal.

 

[davidv]

No, I’m saying that it is not equal.

Why must it be equal?

 

[davidv]

That (bold part) seems irrational to me. Why anyone purposefully decide to get tortured?

Have you ever spoken to a drug addict? For the most part, they freely took a drug that eventually caused them the torture of very severe suffering. Humans do not always act rationally.

 

[STT]

Have you ever spoken to a drug addict? For the most part, they freely took a drug that eventually caused them the torture of very severe suffering. Humans do not always act rationally.

Yes, I have spoken to drug addict. I think they need psychological guidance rather than punishment. Moreover, drugs generally give pleasure rather than pain. We naturally avoid pain unless we are masochist.

 

[tonyrey]

That (bold part) seems irrational to me. Why anyone purposefully decide to get tortured?

They don’t decide to get tortured! They choose to be independent knowing full well they will be isolated and frustrated because they cannot have absolute power. As in this world some individuals are prepared to pay the price for having power and their own kingdom and owing allegiance to no one. To a large extent heaven and hell begin here on earth according to how much or how little we love ourselves and others…

 

[STT]

They don’t decide to get tortured! They choose to be independent knowing full well they will be isolated and frustrated because they cannot have absolute power. As in this world some individuals are prepared to pay the price for having power and their own kingdom and owing allegiance to no one. To some extent heaven and hell begin here on earth according to how much or how little we love ourselves and others…

And who did create them with the desire to have absolute power? To all seriousness, what you are suggesting doesn’t make sense: God creates us with the desire to have absolute power and then punish us for following it.

 

[ANV]

And who did create them with the desire to have absolute power? To all seriousness, what you are suggesting doesn’t make sense: God creates us with the desire to have absolute power and then punish us for following it.

Power is overrated, death is certain.