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Monarchy
Guest
Why do so many Christians go to the Internet infidels forum? Could it be that they doubt God really exists?
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Carl
Guest
MONARCHY
Why do so many Christians go to the Internet infidels forum? Could it be that they doubt God really exists?
No. They go because they have a commission from Jesus to go forth and preach the gospel to all nations, including the nations of Nogod.
Who gave you your commission to preach atheism in these forums? You gave it to yourself, didn’t you? Why? You still haven’t answered that question?
It will get very interesting when you do.
Why do so many Christians go to the Internet infidels forum? Could it be that they doubt God really exists?
No. They go because they have a commission from Jesus to go forth and preach the gospel to all nations, including the nations of Nogod.
Who gave you your commission to preach atheism in these forums? You gave it to yourself, didn’t you? Why? You still haven’t answered that question?
It will get very interesting when you do.
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Carl
Guest
MONARCHY
I have no problem with the teaching of the DoI. I do have a problem with “One Nation, Under God, Indivisible” though.
What’s the difference?
The Declaration refers to Creator. Do you think God in the Pledge is someone other than the Creator? Who would that be?
I have no problem with the teaching of the DoI. I do have a problem with “One Nation, Under God, Indivisible” though.
What’s the difference?
The Declaration refers to Creator. Do you think God in the Pledge is someone other than the Creator? Who would that be?
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Carl
Guest
We may be getting a little off track here, but I think this discussion ties in with the thread. We are essentially talking about conscience. Where did America get its conscience? Why did Alexis de Tocqueville, that student of Democracy in America, speak of us as a Christian nation; and why did he think that if we lost our religion, we might also lose our liberties?
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Lisa_N
Guest
You are simply dodging the question. WHAT inspired Hammurabi to write laws regarding more humane treatment of our fellow man? If there were no final authority then based on “survival of the fittest” Hammurabi would have retained all of the power and authority for himself. He obviously recognized a higher authority than mankind.
Although our laws are based on acknowledging a higher authority, a Creator, there are also none regarding regular attendance at services nor worshipping any specific god. Therefore our laws, clearly resulting from Judeo Christian origins, are like those of Hammurabi and thus his could also be divinely inspired.
You need to provide an argument that laws giving rights to other human beings come from somplace besides thin air since that is what you seem to be arguing.
Lisa N
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Carl
Guest
You need to provide an argument that laws giving rights to other human beings come from somplace besides thin air since that is what you seem to be arguing.
As Jefferson and the other signers of the Declaration indicated when they said that we were endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights.
As Jefferson and the other signers of the Declaration indicated when they said that we were endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights.
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Lisa_N
Guest
Carl said:
Carl maybe I confused the issue. I agree, that the Creator endowed us with these rights and that they are written our hearts. However I am addressing our atheists who seem to think that laws regarding interactions of human beings come out of thin air or develop out of societal norms.
BTW the Code of Hammurabi is pretty strict! I would probably live more safely under a code of laws that required religious services than one that put someone to death for putting a hole in another’s house!
Also FWIW the Code ascribes value to an unborn child. More than I can say for our current state of laws.
Lisa N
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Monarchy
Guest
I wasn’t forced to read the DoI out loud at school every morning, for one. The other is that you are taking a secular pledge (it was originaly) that says “One nation, indivisible” and puting a Christian religous refrence in there, which divides people.
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Monarchy
Guest
I have answerded Carl, several times. You, of course, ignore it.
BTW, where are Atheists trying to stop the teaching of the DoI?
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AnAtheist
Guest
Lisa N:
Societies with codified laws have an advantage over those without. Hence they survive (longer). And provide a better way of life for everyone.
Here is one:
Societies with codified laws have an advantage over those without. Hence they survive (longer). And provide a better way of life for everyone.
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Monarchy
Guest
I have answered the question several times, Carl. You, of course, ingnored it.
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Carl
Guest
AnAtheist
tblog.com/templates/index.php?bid=a100wwe&static=346974
I get the impression from both of your posts above that you don’t want any mention of Christianity in the classroom. That might be divisive? So would you subscribe to the notion that since the majority of the signers of the Declaration were Christian, that fact should not be noticed in textbooks because it might upset buddhists or muslims or atheists?
Would you further suggest that the efforts by Christian religious groups before the Civil War to stop slavery should also not be mentioned because it would show favoritism to Christians?
Would you further suggest that the Civil Rights movement of this century, largely funded and managed by Christian groups led by Dr. Martin Luther King, should not be mentioned because buddhists and muslims might be offended?
Would you also argue that the pro-life movement of modern times should not be mentioned in classrooms because its largely Catholic and fundamentalist support might make atheists uncomfortable?
By the way, did someone truly force you to say the words “under God” in the pledge of allegiance?
… or are you beating a dead horse?
tblog.com/templates/index.php?bid=a100wwe&static=346974
I get the impression from both of your posts above that you don’t want any mention of Christianity in the classroom. That might be divisive? So would you subscribe to the notion that since the majority of the signers of the Declaration were Christian, that fact should not be noticed in textbooks because it might upset buddhists or muslims or atheists?
Would you further suggest that the efforts by Christian religious groups before the Civil War to stop slavery should also not be mentioned because it would show favoritism to Christians?
Would you further suggest that the Civil Rights movement of this century, largely funded and managed by Christian groups led by Dr. Martin Luther King, should not be mentioned because buddhists and muslims might be offended?
Would you also argue that the pro-life movement of modern times should not be mentioned in classrooms because its largely Catholic and fundamentalist support might make atheists uncomfortable?
By the way, did someone truly force you to say the words “under God” in the pledge of allegiance?
… or are you beating a dead horse?
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Carl
Guest
And this from Thomas Jefferson, principle author of the Declaration of Independence:
An atheist I can never be. — letter to John Adams, 1823
An atheist I can never be. — letter to John Adams, 1823
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Lisa_N
Guest
Your opinion or do you have any basis in fact for this suggestion? IOW are there lawless societies that developed and then died?
As to the better life for everyone, not likely. Because those who’ve given up rights, assets and privileges out of some long range theory that it is better for society will be in a worse situation. Knowing human nature I hardly think such altruistic impulses are likely without some kind of original authority.
Lisa N
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Lisa_N
Guest
FWIW the term “under God” is not necessarily a Christian term. The word Allah means God in Arabic. Therefore a Muslim could say “under God” and not be violating his faith. So could a Jew, although I understand they do not speak the name of God and abbreviate G-d in written material. For a Buddhist, the Noble Truths could be God.
While realistically I think the majority of people saying the pledge have an affiliation with the Christian term God, the reality is that it’s a term that is expansive enough to take in many faiths or lack thereof. All of you have a God, you may just not be willing to name Him.
Lisa N
While realistically I think the majority of people saying the pledge have an affiliation with the Christian term God, the reality is that it’s a term that is expansive enough to take in many faiths or lack thereof. All of you have a God, you may just not be willing to name Him.
Lisa N
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Carl
Guest
Societies with codified laws have an advantage over those without. Hence they survive (longer). And provide a better way of life for everyone.
Codified laws as opposed to anarchy?
The Nazi Party had codified laws. Perhaps that was better than no law whatever. But the Nazis persecuted all religions. They lasted only 12 years (1932-44). A similar case in the Soviet Union, atheist to the core, which was founded and overturned within seventy years. Our republic allows no persecution of religion and has lasted well over two centuries.
Codified laws as opposed to anarchy?
The Nazi Party had codified laws. Perhaps that was better than no law whatever. But the Nazis persecuted all religions. They lasted only 12 years (1932-44). A similar case in the Soviet Union, atheist to the core, which was founded and overturned within seventy years. Our republic allows no persecution of religion and has lasted well over two centuries.
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zootjeff
Guest
How do you go on living when your parents told you your whole life that Santa Claus won’t bring you stuff unless your good. And you form your whole moral value set on the fact that you don’t want to let Santa down. Then you find out that there is no Santa. The entire Concience is thus destroyed.
What a sad day, the day after Christmas is.
What a sad day, the day after Christmas is.
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Lisa_N
Guest
And your point is? Or do you think God and Santa are equivalant?
Lisa N
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zootjeff
Guest
Lisa N:
They both:
Have never been seen,
Are talked to silently before bed by millions of people,
Have supernatural powers,
Are suppose to answer wishes,
Have many permutations,
No one agrees on their exact origins,
Are figments of our imagination,
Yaa, they are.
They both:
Have never been seen,
Are talked to silently before bed by millions of people,
Have supernatural powers,
Are suppose to answer wishes,
Have many permutations,
No one agrees on their exact origins,
Are figments of our imagination,
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Carl
Guest
What a sad day, the day after Christmas is.
Very likely, to anyone who thinks Santa Claus is God
Very likely, to anyone who thinks Santa Claus is God
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